Mens Rights Thread

iptba · 05-07-2018 12:19AM

Off the coast of Finland, immured in the Baltic Sea, there is a private island where men are banned and only a select few women, with suitably large bank accounts, are allowed to set foot. It is called SuperShe Island and it is the international headquarters of the SuperShe society.

I say “yet another example”, because there has been a boom in bouji spaces exclusive to women. There is the Wing, for example, a fashionable women-only co-working space and social club with locations across the US and a space in London on the way. Membership costs from€2,041 (GBP1,800) a year and there is a waiting list. Then there is the AllBright, an exclusive women-only members’ club in London that opened earlier this year and costs at least €1,105 (GBP975) to join. There is Women Fest, too, the UK’s first all-female festival, which is scheduled to take place in August. (It costs €255 (GBP225) to attend, but some of the profits will go to a tree charity, so I guess that is OK.)

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/would-you-pay-4-000-to-stay-on-a-women-only-island-1.3553565

Written by a lesbian feminist, so no real discussion of double standards.

Pat Mustard · 05-07-2018 09:10AM

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/would-you-pay-4-000-to-stay-on-a-women-only-island-1.3553565

Written by a lesbian feminist, so no real discussion of double standards.

I read about this place before.

All I could think was what's next, men only golf clubs? :pac:

PlaneSpeeking · 05-07-2018 09:29AM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I read about this place before.

All I could think was what's next, men only golf clubs? :pac:

The difference being is that male only establishments are being forced to change - whilst women only establishments are being encouraged.

I'd say spot the double standard but it's so obvious at this point to be hackneyed.

Pawwed Rig · 05-07-2018 10:12AM

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/would-you-pay-4-000-to-stay-on-a-women-only-island-1.3553565

Written by a lesbian feminist, so no real discussion of double standards.

I am not against women-only spaces. We still live in a white man’s world. It is important for minorities and women to have places that belong to them, where they feel safe and valued and can be themselves. But I find the trend for high-priced, women-only networking spaces nauseating, particularly as these often use feminism as a marketing device, talking about sisterhood while seeming only to care about bettering a few already wealthy women.

ie So women only is fine but not wealthy women.
Not much good networking with someone with no contacts

professore · 11-07-2018 11:45AM

iptba wrote: »

https://twitter.com/lynbw/status/1014449944118398976
https://twitter.com/louisemjoreilly/status/1014445666230243328
https://twitter.com/Ciairin/status/1014446876555403264

It is blasted 24/7 how great women are at everything. This is the mainstream. Surely if young girls today believe women can't do anything other than be a housewife they must have severe mental health issues?

Calhoun · 11-07-2018 01:31PM

professore wrote: »

It is blasted 24/7 how great women are at everything. This is the mainstream. Surely if young girls today believe women can't do anything other than be a housewife they must have severe mental health issues?

Hilarious isn't it, we want to be equal but we are also victims :P.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 11-07-2018 01:54PM

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/would-you-pay-4-000-to-stay-on-a-women-only-island-1.3553565

Written by a lesbian feminist, so no real discussion of double standards.

I really don't have a problem with this as long as men are allowed to have their own private members clubs also.

It's only natural that both sexes like having their own spaces.

Eric Cartman · 11-07-2018 06:14PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I really don't have a problem with this as long as men are allowed to have their own private members clubs also.

It's only natural that both sexes like having their own spaces.

but we can't , removing men only spaces is their no.1 agenda.

PlaneSpeeking · 12-07-2018 08:15AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but we can't , removing men only spaces is their no.1 agenda.

+1

iptba · 21-07-2018 09:41PM

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

#WorkEqual is trending
https://twitter.com/fiannafailparty/status/1014542284442959872
https://twitter.com/DFSDublin/status/1014537587476848641
@DFSDublin briefing
DFSDublin [Dress for Success Dublin]

"We promote the economic independence of women by providing workwear, a network of support and career development tools"

#GenderEqualityInIrishTheatre
https://twitter.com/DeptAHG/status/1016271061296574464

#safeireland
@SAFEIreland ‏
Working to see an Irish society that acts decisively to end domestic violence challenges the perpetration of all violence against women

https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017348647061721088
https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017350777470443520

iptba · 21-07-2018 09:46PM

(I split this over two posts as there is a limit of five tweets per post I think)

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017357255505858560
https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017372251090575360

#joelcommdublin
A #womensinspire event

#womensinspire

#Day4Danielle
Danielle Carroll Summer School 2018 @DanSummerSch18
#MyNameis presents the Inaugural Danielle Carroll Summer School July 21st, 2018. We ask -'What’s killing Women?' Tickets fully booked. #Day4Danielle

https://twitter.com/EndTheStigma_ie/status/1020765299459715072
https://twitter.com/RonanMooreSocD/status/1020742173753475073
https://twitter.com/Cliona_l/status/1020689848389259264

Calhoun · 21-07-2018 09:54PM

iptba wrote: »

(I split this over two posts as there is a limit of five tweets per post I think)

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017357255505858560
https://twitter.com/SAFEIreland/status/1017372251090575360

#joelcommdublin
A #womensinspire event

#womensinspire

#Day4Danielle
Danielle Carroll Summer School 2018 @DanSummerSch18
#MyNameis presents the Inaugural Danielle Carroll Summer School July 21st, 2018. We ask -'What’s killing Women?' Tickets fully booked. #Day4Danielle

https://twitter.com/EndTheStigma_ie/status/1020765299459715072
https://twitter.com/RonanMooreSocD/status/1020742173753475073
https://twitter.com/Cliona_l/status/1020689848389259264

All female panels eh, outrageous

. Also what's the deal with Danielle Carroll?

iptba · 21-07-2018 11:45PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9LlCwDK2NA

Talks about the value of fathers in children's lives.

Though I'm not sure what specifically can be done i.e. State support for single parents is useful. But giving fathers more rights when couples separate or ensuring they have sufficient access could be useful.

tritium · 27-07-2018 07:34AM

Not sure what the best thread to post this in is

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/lesser-category-of-rape-offence-under-review-37159598.html

The lrc is opening a consultation on changes to the law on rape. Many things mooted, some very reasonable and sensible and others less so. It would be in the interests of most people to contribute once the consultation goes live in my view

seamus · 27-07-2018 08:19AM

The Law Reform Commission is examining whether a separate offence, tentatively described as "gross negligence rape", should be introduced to cover a situation where an accused honestly, but unreasonably and mistakenly, believes the complainant was consenting to sex.

Don't call it "rape" for a start.

On principle I think a lesser form of assault is reasonable; where there's somewhat reckless attitude taken towards consent, but not a malicious one.

But "rape" carries with it very specific connotations of violence and anger. A rape accusation is a prison sentence for a man, before any charges have even been brought.

For this kind of charge you have someone who's probably a bit of a moron, but they're not violent or dangerous. Calling them a "rapist" is basically tattooing it on their forehead for the rest of their life that they're a dangerous animal.

I think it would also be important that registration as a sex offender for this kind of charge is at the discretion of the judge, or on the request of the prosecution. The purpose of the register is to ensure that people who pose a risk to the public have their movements known to the Gardai.

Someone who has a drunken fumble without realising just how drunk the other party was, on the face of it doesn't pose an ongoing public risk and doesn't deserve to go on a register of dangerous perverts.

But most importantly, it needs to not be called "rape".

tritium · 27-07-2018 08:52AM

seamus wrote: »

Don't call it "rape" for a start.

On principle I think a lesser form of assault is reasonable; where there's somewhat reckless attitude taken towards consent, but not a malicious one.

But "rape" carries with it very specific connotations of violence and anger. A rape accusation is a prison sentence for a man, before any charges have even been brought.

For this kind of charge you have someone who's probably a bit of a moron, but they're not violent or dangerous. Calling them a "rapist" is basically tattooing it on their forehead for the rest of their life that they're a dangerous animal.

I think it would also be important that registration as a sex offender for this kind of charge is at the discretion of the judge, or on the request of the prosecution. The purpose of the register is to ensure that people who pose a risk to the public have their movements known to the Gardai.

Someone who has a drunken fumble without realising just how drunk the other party was, on the face of it doesn't pose an ongoing public risk and doesn't deserve to go on a register of dangerous perverts.

But most importantly, it needs to not be called "rape".

Tbh someone who has a drunken fumble with another equally drunk person doesn’t deserve to be charged with anything once it’s clear both parties were ok with it at the time imho

27-07-2018 09:14AM

tritium wrote: »

Tbh someone who has a drunken fumble with another equally drunk person doesn’t deserve to be charged with anything once it’s clear both parties were ok with it at the time imho

Agreed. This is my whole problem with this idea of being able to withdraw consent after the fact. I just can't get my head around the logic of it. Two people consent to have sex, they do it without reservations, but the woman can then withdraw consent the next day. Just seems utterly bizarre to me.

And then there's the Drunk aspect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of person to sleep with someone who is obviously drunk, having naturally done it before in University. It's ****ty sex anyway.... but where do they draw the line? Could taking medication (without any obvious signs) be considered the same as being drunk? Their judgment may be considered impaired depending on the perspective...

My problem with all of these things is how vague it is. It's so open to being abused for all manner of reasons... with the male being the "aggressor" at every turn.

seamus · 27-07-2018 01:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed. This is my whole problem with this idea of being able to withdraw consent after the fact. I just can't get my head around the logic of it. Two people consent to have sex, they do it without reservations, but the woman can then withdraw consent the next day. Just seems utterly bizarre to me.

That's not suggested here though.

Because you can't retroactively withdraw consent. Consent is a temporal matter; it either exists at the time or it doesn't. It can't exist, but then be removed in hindsight.

And then there's the Drunk aspect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of person to sleep with someone who is obviously drunk, having naturally done it before in University. It's ****ty sex anyway.... but where do they draw the line? Could taking medication (without any obvious signs) be considered the same as being drunk? Their judgment may be considered impaired depending on the perspective.

Anything which may inhibit ones judgement has the potential to mean that consent doesn't exist.

Note though that the proposed new law doesn't seek to remove the defence of an honest and reasonable belief. So someone may be on medication with no outward signs of impairment, but where technically consent is not possible. That doesn't automatically mean the other person has committed a crime; and under the current law and this proposed law they would still have the honest defence.

This specific law would be looking at the "drunken fumble" instances where a reasonable person might consider the other person impaired, but the defendant at the time honestly believed that consent existed.
And where both parties are drunk, technically both could be guilty of the same crime against one another.*

Another reason why it's important to remove "rape" from the wording.

*I'm very much on the side of "let a drunken encounter just be a bad memory for the two people involved", but it leaves the door open for "I was drunk too!" to become an easy defence for an actual rape

iptba · 27-07-2018 01:37PM

tritium wrote: »

Not sure what the best thread to post this in is

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/lesser-category-of-rape-offence-under-review-37159598.html

The lrc is opening a consultation on changes to the law on rape. Many things mooted, some very reasonable and sensible and others less so. It would be in the interests of most people to contribute once the consultation goes live in my view

Both this article and the Irish Times article

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/new-crime-of-gross-negligence-rape-is-put-forward-1.3577602
only referred to male-on-female assault. But rape can also occur in other situations e.g. between two men.

seamus · 27-07-2018 03:37PM

iptba wrote: »

Both of this article and the Irish Times article

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/new-crime-of-gross-negligence-rape-is-put-forward-1.3577602
only referred to male-on-female assault. But rape can also occur in other situations e.g. between two men.

Yep. Although this consultation isn't only talking about man-on-woman rape, the articles pretty universally focus on that.

Man-on-man rape would also be included in the proposal.

But not woman-on-man assault, because that's legally not rape, so it's out of scope.

Which in itself is annoying.

tritium · 27-07-2018 04:16PM

seamus wrote: »

Yep. Although this consultation isn't only talking about man-on-woman rape, the articles pretty universally focus on that.

Man-on-man rape would also be included in the proposal.

But not woman-on-man assault, because that's legally not rape, so it's out of scope.

Which in itself is annoying.

I believe the definition itself is in scope, so maybe that’s a key part of feedback people should be providing? It does seem lucicrious that you can have a situations where A had sex with B without consent and whether it was rape or not depends entirely on the gender of A

One eyed Jack · 27-07-2018 07:54PM

tritium wrote: »

Not sure what the best thread to post this in is

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/lesser-category-of-rape-offence-under-review-37159598.html

The lrc is opening a consultation on changes to the law on rape. Many things mooted, some very reasonable and sensible and others less so. It would be in the interests of most people to contribute once the consultation goes live in my view

The full consultation paper is here for anyone who... has nothing better to do all weekend

KNOWLEDGE OR BELIEF CONCERNING CONSENT IN RAPE LAW

That write-up in the Independent is terrible though, there's a decent write-up on the journal for anyone who doesn't fancy reading a 65 page report -

Here are the legal options being considered about sexual consent

tritium wrote: »

I believe the definition itself is in scope, so maybe that’s a key part of feedback people should be providing? It does seem lucicrious that you can have a situations where A had sex with B without consent and whether it was rape or not depends entirely on the gender of A

Both rape under section 4, and aggravated sexual assault, carry the same maximum sentence - life imprisonment.

To be perfectly honest I think the whole farce is just window dressing - to be seen to be doing something. I don't think a whole lot is likely to change in practical terms when a case goes in front of a jury. They're still far more likely to be influenced by their own biases and prejudices to appreciate the nuance of the Judges instructions.

iptba · 28-07-2018 02:19PM

FWIW

Young boys more 'cliquey' than girls, new research finds
https://www.independent.ie/life/family/young-boys-more-cliquey-than-girls-new-research-finds-37160217.html

silverharp · 29-07-2018 07:57AM

another Title IX excess from the US, goes to show a touchy feely listen and believe legal system would be a disaster

https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/47278/

A “fist bump” and a selfie may have ended Marcus Knight’s educational career right as it started.

The student, who has autism, cerebral palsy and a shunt to relieve fluid pressure on his brain, was not allowed to defend himself against allegations in two Title IX investigations this past fall, his mother told The College Fix.

Aurora Knight has raised more than half of the money to cover legal fees through a GoFundMe campaign as she challenges the sexual-misconduct findings on her son’s record.

Though Saddleback College lifted Marcus’s suspension a day before a hearing last month, it has thus far refused to remove the findings from his record, Aurora wrote in an update to the campaign Wednesday.

Her son (below) has limited expressive language capabilities and cannot negotiate social situations as easily as others, she told The College Fix.

Aurora Knight laid out her narrative of the allegations in a phone interview with The Fix.

The first incident occurred in the first week of September when Marcus was in the Student Services office and asked a female student working there if he could “fist bump” her. She agreed but soon filed a Title IX complaint.

The next week Aurora and Marcus were asked to meet with the school’s Disabled Students Programs and Services coordinator, who allegedly called the fist bump “inappropriate behavior.” Aurora told The Fix that Marcus did not “bump” anything other than the female’s knuckles. (The Fix has reached the coordinator but that person has not been available for a phone interview as of Thursday night.)

His mother told the coordinator that Marcus had been at the office seeking campus employment. The official allegedly said that would be “totally pointless” because Marcus was “obviously incapable” and should be taking adult disability classes instead of college classes.

Though the coordinator said the incident would not go on her son’s record if the behavior stopped, according to Aurora, the mother became aggravated by the description of a consensual fist bump as “inappropriate.”

backspin. · 29-07-2018 09:05AM

A fist bump. Jesus things have got bad in America. Things have got to turn around from here. That is ludicrous. Imagine being male in the US college system right now.

citytillidie · 30-07-2018 10:43AM

backspin. wrote: »

A fist bump. Jesus things have got bad in America. Things have got to turn around from here. That is ludicrous. Imagine being male in the US college system right now.

US Colleges just want males to go out and kill themselves on the grid iron field to keep the college funded

iptba · 04-08-2018 06:11PM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrPptSdULbM

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iptba · 04-08-2018 11:47PM

The Sports Minister says he aims to double the funding for the Women in Sport programme next year to €2m.

That's just one of a number of measures announced in the €220m 10-year National Sports Policy this morning.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/government-to-double-funding-in-220m-national-sports-policy-857612.html

Not huge money but another initiative that focuses on one gender, that gender being women.

the_pen_turner · 05-08-2018 08:59AM

iptba wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/government-to-double-funding-in-220m-national-sports-policy-857612.html

Not huge money but another initiative that focuses on one gender, that gender being women.

as much as i haate all this fmanist noscience i have to say that there is a genuine diference between mens sport and womans sport. womans sport is really under promoted and funded

givyjoe · 05-08-2018 09:21AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

as much as i haate all this fmanist noscience i have to say that there is a genuine diference between mens sport and womans sport. womans sport is really under promoted and funded

Isn't that also because less women partake and even less women actually bother to support /women's sports? When you say under funded, do you mean it's not spent 50/50?

Mens Rights Thread

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