Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Cookiemunster · 23-07-2018 10:24AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

It will be interesting what sort of chance Pereira will get this year. For a long while we've been hoping to see him given a good chance to break into the team. Realistically after two seasons playing at La Liga now is the time, and I have a feeling if he does break into the side he could find himself at the end of José's weird comments (that I think he uses to fire players up to prove him wrong).

I've always thought of him as a skilful, creative player. So him playing a deeper more simpler role that José requires may be difficult for him, just to contain himself.

The thing is he spent two seasons in La Liga playing on the wing and he couldn't get a game at Valencia when everyone was fit. I'm not sure he's actually as good as some on here are making out.

Trigger · 23-07-2018 10:28AM

It seems weird that the club would brief the media on Martial after what Jose’s said last night. He basically said tough **** he’s has to honour his contract.

Will I Am Not · 23-07-2018 10:32AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thing is he spent two seasons in La Liga playing on the wing and he couldn't get a game at Valencia when everyone was fit. I'm not sure he's actually as good as some on here are making out.

If he was never at United and we just signed Valencia’s reserve winger...

Lord TSC · 23-07-2018 10:32AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thing is he spent two seasons in La Liga playing on the wing and he couldn't get a game at Valencia when everyone was fit. I'm not sure he's actually as good as some on here are making out.

The Fifa problem; every kid has potential to be a world beater, and should be utterly indulged while at the same time the team is achieving top honours

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 10:32AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thing is he spent two seasons in La Liga playing on the wing and he couldn't get a game at Valencia when everyone was fit. I'm not sure he's actually as good as some on here are making out.

He got plenty of games for Valencia. In the first 18 or 19 league games, he made 9 starts and he used to start alternate games along with Guedes and Soler. Then he got injured and struggled to gain fitness, and Valencia team was set and in the business end of the season.

StringerBell · 23-07-2018 10:32AM

astradave wrote: »

It seems weird that the club would brief the media on Martial after what Jose’s said last night. He basically said tough **** he’s has to honour his contract.

Which is how you would play it to extract maximum value from him tbf.

Adamocovic · 23-07-2018 10:37AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The thing is he spent two seasons in La Liga playing on the wing and he couldn't get a game at Valencia when everyone was fit. I'm not sure he's actually as good as some on here are making out.

Think that's a bit harsh on him, but I am bias.

For Granada he was one of the first names on the sheet. I think he started 34 league games. But they were a team at the bottom who got relegated.

He then moved to contenders in Valencia, and played 23 times for them in the league last season, I agree 11 of them were off the bench so he wasn't the first name on the team sheet.

But taking into the situation, he was 21 (only turned 22 this year), playing for a team in La Liga who finished 4th place, just 3 behind Madrid, and managed to play over 20 league games for them, despite playing the last season with one of the worst teams.

Valencia even inquired about making the move permanent but Pereira wanted to come back. To me that would suggest they were aware of his talent and ability for the future.

How good he can become will depend, on himself and the role José chooses for him, but I have no doubt that all the talent is there and he's already shown enough of it to warrant further attention. Yes it's easy to get carried away and maybe I'm too hopeful, we'll have to wait and see.

S.M.B. · 23-07-2018 10:39AM

Shifting Martial for £70m plus seems like the ideal thing to do now as long as we can bring in someone like Willian. We will save ourselves close to £10m in bonus fees if he goes now.

It'd be great if he went abroad but a straight swap for Toby would not be the end of the world at this stage.

Cantona's Collars · 23-07-2018 10:41AM

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1021290002104438784

José Mourinho on the remainder of the transfer window: “One thing is what I want and another thing is what is going to happen.”

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 10:45AM

I’m hardly surprised if the club arnt willing to blow their bollox on plauers he wants.

Shown little ability to extract performances from the squad he inherited and been more miss than hit with signings under his reign.

And now in the “likely jumping ship” period of his reign.

Like for **** sake. Look at even who are linked with. It’s all meh stuff totally overpriced.

He is setting a woeful tone on preseason. Woeful. Someone needs to grab him and have a word. He’s being ridiculous.

You’d swear the World Cup took him by surprise.....

WinnyThePoo · 23-07-2018 10:47AM

If only van gaal was here to save us.

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 10:48AM

TheDoc wrote: »

I’m hardly surprised if the club arnt willing to blow their bollox on plauers he wants.

Shown little ability to extract performances from the squad he inherited and been more miss than hit with signings under his reign.

And now in the “likely jumping ship” period of his reign.

Like for **** sake. Look at even who are linked with. It’s all meh stuff totally overpriced.

He is setting a woeful tone on preseason. Woeful. Someone needs to grab him and have a word. He’s being ridiculous.

You’d swear the World Cup took him by surprise.....

Exactly and people don't even have problem losing Martial for ageing Willian and Toby.

Adamocovic · 23-07-2018 10:48AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

The Fifa problem; every kid has potential to be a world beater, and should be utterly indulged while at the same time the team is achieving top honours

I don't think this has anything to do with Fifa or any other video game.

Of course one of our youth products, who's already won our reserve player of the year, who plays for Brazil underage level (scoring in the World Cup final underage for them a couple of years back), has made over 60 league appearances in La Liga at only 22, and was wanted permanently by Valencia who have just secured CL football, will generate buzz and anticipation.

Even watching him at Granada and Valencia was great. He had brilliant skill, good close control, nice passer of the ball and can dribble. It is easy to see why he would get fans excited.

Cookiemunster · 23-07-2018 10:53AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He got plenty of games for Valencia. In the first 18 or 19 league games, he made 9 starts and he used to start alternate games along with Guedes and Soler. Then he got injured and struggled to gain fitness, and Valencia team was set and in the business end of the season.

Guedes and Soler both started 27 league games. Both also had periods out injured. At the start of the season Guedes started 8 of 13 games before he got injured. Soler started 14 out of 15 games before he got injured. 5 of Perieras 12 starts coincide with these injuries. He was clearly a backup.

Adamocovic · 23-07-2018 10:56AM

Will I Am Not wrote: »

If he was never at United and we just signed Valencia’s reserve winger...

If we take that approach....

If Kane was never at Spurs and they just signed Championship Leicester's back-up striker.

(Kane may have been younger (18/19) but before his proper first season as part of the Spurs squad actually get some games he played 13 games for Leicester, 8 off the bench and only scored 2 goals, as they failed to earn promotion.)

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 11:00AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

I don't think this has anything to do with Fifa or any other video game.

Of course one of our youth products, who's already won our reserve player of the year, who plays for Brazil underage level (scoring in the World Cup final underage for them a couple of years back), has made over 60 league appearances in La Liga at only 22, and was wanted permanently by Valencia who have just secured CL football, will generate buzz and anticipation.

Even watching him at Granada and Valencia was great. He had brilliant skill, good close control, nice passer of the ball and can dribble. It is easy to see why he would get fans excited.

Also it's not even that fans want him to be key player and start all games, he is good enough to be a squad player.

Cookiemunster · 23-07-2018 11:03AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

I don't think this has anything to do with Fifa or any other video game.

Of course one of our youth products, who's already won our reserve player of the year, who plays for Brazil underage level (scoring in the World Cup final underage for them a couple of years back), has made over 60 league appearances in La Liga at only 22, and was wanted permanently by Valencia who have just secured CL football, will generate buzz and anticipation.

Even watching him at Granada and Valencia was great. He had brilliant skill, good close control, nice passer of the ball and can dribble. It is easy to see why he would get fans excited.

Utd are aiming for higher things than Valencia. If he was good enough to start for Utd this season, then he should have been walking onto that Valencia team. And people are talking about him playing in the middle for Utd even though both Spanish clubs played him on the wing.

Trigger · 23-07-2018 11:05AM

I hope Pereira hangs about this year, as he will definitely get himself some games, he can cover the DM(as a deep lying playmaker), as an 8, a 10 or a RW. I reckon it will be his decision though just like last year

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 11:06AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Guedes and Soler both started 27 league games. Both also had periods out injured. At the start of the season Guedes started 8 of 13 games before he got injured. Soler started 14 out of 15 games before he got injured. 5 of Perieras 12 starts coincide with these injuries. He was clearly a backup.

In first 18 league games, Pereira started 10 league games and then was suspended once and then was injured. He took time to regain fitness and was a bench player.

If not for injury, he would have easily started 50% of league games, which is very good for a player on loan at a club that finished in top 4 in La Liga.

Mitch Connor · 23-07-2018 11:12AM

One big issue with the talk of Maguire.... why on earth is it even assumed we could get him? Look at how Leicster dug their heels in over Mahrez - why would anyone think they'll sell Maguire?

Cookiemunster · 23-07-2018 11:15AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

In first 18 league games, Pereira started 10 league games and then was suspended once and then was injured. He took time to regain fitness and was a bench player.

If not for injury, he would have easily started 50% of league games, which is very good for a player on loan at a club that finished in top 4 in La Liga.

Did you purposely ignore the part where 5 of those starts were when the other two were injured?

Look he's a handy squad player, but that's about it. I watch La Liga and kept an eye on Valencias line up last season looking for his name. He started most of the Copa Del Rey games, but was obviously a back up when it came to the league.

Mitch Connor · 23-07-2018 11:16AM

TheDoc wrote: »

I’m hardly surprised if the club arnt willing to blow their bollox on plauers he wants.

Shown little ability to extract performances from the squad he inherited and been more miss than hit with signings under his reign.

And now in the “likely jumping ship” period of his reign.

Like for **** sake. Look at even who are linked with. It’s all meh stuff totally overpriced.

He is setting a woeful tone on preseason. Woeful. Someone needs to grab him and have a word. He’s being ridiculous.

You’d swear the World Cup took him by surprise.....

Either back him or sack him.

The players he wants to replace are Smalling, Jones, Young (as first choice, though maybe that isn't the case) and Martial. Why do people have an issue with replacing them, even taking Martial into account.

Martial has shown nothing under Jose, whether there is a player there or not. Then look at the squad. Rashford - in from the left. Martial - in from the left. Sanchez - in from the left. Lingard - central roaming. Mata - left footer with no pace on the right. Whether right side or left (please be right side) we have no actual winger in the squad. Why wouldn't Jose be interested in selling a player who hasn't performed for him if it allows him to balance the attack better?

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 11:19AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Did you purposely ignore the part where 5 of those starts were when the other two were injured?

Look he's a handy squad player, but that's about it. I watch La Liga and kept an eye on Valencias line up last season looking for his name. He started most of the Copa Del Rey games, but was obviously a back up when it came to the league.

Before Soler injury, in 15 games, he started 7 league games.
Before Guees injury, in 13 games he started 5 league games.

Well, no one is arguing he is some superstar, people are arguing he should be squad player for us.

Also Guedes was a big name signing for PSG and was loaned out to Valencia, Soler is one of their own academy player. Periera did well to start 10 out of 18 league games considering he was just a player without much hype before he joined Valencia.

Edit: Also he was always a used sub which also helped his loan. So not sure what your point is, mine is very simple. Pereira has done enough to have a squad role at ManUtd.

pjohnson · 23-07-2018 11:20AM

TheDoc wrote: »

I’m hardly surprised if the club arnt willing to blow their bollox on plauers he wants.

Shown little ability to extract performances from the squad he inherited and been more miss than hit with signings under his reign.

And now in the “likely jumping ship” period of his reign.

Like for **** sake. Look at even who are linked with. It’s all meh stuff totally overpriced.

He is setting a woeful tone on preseason. Woeful. Someone needs to grab him and have a word. He’s being ridiculous.

You’d swear the World Cup took him by surprise.....

Well then the club is a fcukin disgrace tbh. If they dont trust Jose just sack him and get someone they trust. If this idea is true the club are gunna waste a season and cause us to go backwards (again) just so they can remove the manager half way through?

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 11:27AM

So Jose has spent 380 million and we are not done with transfer window and people are questioning whether the club backed him or not? This is on top of having the best GK in the world and some very good talented players like Martial, Rashford.

Still Jose's favorite is Valencia, Fellaini, Young all players who were already at the club but somehow Jose isn't backed.

Maybe people should start questioning Jose's methods than always asking for more players.

Right now we have 5 or 6 CBs and how can club sign one more without offloading few?

Drumpot · 23-07-2018 11:31AM

The more panicked some of you guys are getting the more confident I feel about the season. Some of you seem to be stuck in a negative loop that only sees choppy waters, but I don't get it.

So we didn't sign much yet . . Ok . . Martial looks like he's angling for a move . . Martial might end be being very good but Wont be missed as a United player. He has done f**k all to be classed as a loss and United should just try and get a fee for the potential he may or may not ever reach. Also, I would rather see Rashford get more games and run outs, at least he's not a whingy, dour f**ker like Martial and will always try for the club.

Sanchez and Pogba are yet to show their best for United, so there is that to look forward to. I think if Pogba responds well to Jose's challenge it could be a very enjoyable season! Lukaku has improved and I am looking forward to seeing how that pans out.

United now have a decent central midfield core to choose from - Matic, Herrera, Pogba, Fred, Fellani . Seriously, I know people convinced themselves that it was great seeing McTominey get some games last season but if we want to be challenging properly we needed a stronger squad and backups and now we have it.

Bailly will hopefully be fit. Lindlof will hopefully improve or settle down and take his WC form into the league. A top CB would be nice IMO. I don't mind Jones and Smalling as backup (they are ok in perhaps 80% of our games).

Two seasons of upgrading our squad, where have all the players sold moved on to ? Asides from Di Maria, I cant remember any player that Jose offloaded going onto bigger or better things. 3 years of an erratic transfer policy under Woodward and managers not up to the job left Jose a mess to fix and I think he is doing it.

I cant understand how anybody could blame Jose for the summers transfers situation. Its clear he has targets and for whatever reason the club has not signed them. I don't believe its because they club isn't trying to support the manager. Other then fans complaining about the style of football, every other barometer points to an improving squad and a more talented team since Jose took over. Its not like LVG wasn't given money to spend and if we factor player cost inflation, Jose hasn't had more then LVG but has done better with what he has gotten.

I'm cautiously optimistic that the club can solidify a top 2 spot and possibly even put in a decent challenge for CL (semi finals perhaps) and a better league challenge.. I don't really see why I would EXPECT anymore. "This is Man United" doesn't explain WHY we should expect the team to achieve greater heights then City. Its a realistic expectation that doesn't blame the manager for not reaching heights that probably no manager could do while City are outspending United.

Liverpool will still have a weakish underbelly (like all Klopp teams have) that will let them down in games they should win and big games. Ironically Jose's ability to win ugly (that some united fans hate) is what makes me confident united will finish ahead of Liverpool. Spurs will still be tough but haven't improved. Chelsea is a big question mark so nobody really knows what will happen there. And then there is City who are rightly favourites and will be tough to overtake but I look forward to the fight. .

Cotts72 · 23-07-2018 11:50AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Exactly and people don't even have problem losing Martial for ageing Willian and Toby.

The martial of last night fails to inspire any hope in me! Willian and Alderweireld are experienced players who will improve the team and could be key to united challenging for the title

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 11:51AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Either back him or sack him.

The players he wants to replace are Smalling, Jones, Young (as first choice, though maybe that isn't the case) and Martial. Why do people have an issue with replacing them, even taking Martial into account.

Martial has shown nothing under Jose, whether there is a player there or not. Then look at the squad. Rashford - in from the left. Martial - in from the left. Sanchez - in from the left. Lingard - central roaming. Mata - left footer with no pace on the right. Whether right side or left (please be right side) we have no actual winger in the squad. Why wouldn't Jose be interested in selling a player who hasn't performed for him if it allows him to balance the attack better?

I'm in total agreement with him on the CB's. Martial, look I just rate him and think hes class. There is a point though where if he wants out he needs to be sold. Rarely does it ever come back for a player who makes up his mind he's off.

But going into the season with Smalling,Jones and Rojo is negligent.
The club telling him to sell first is total proper order. What does he think, he can have six CB's on first team wages? Absolutely proper order. **** or get off the pot.

He hasn't been ruthless at all in terms of the squad. Clearing some low hanging fruit with Schneiderlan, Memphis and Mhikitaryian. But he needs to make a call on the centre backs.

Smalling and Jones have no place at United anymore. And I'd probably add Rojo in there too. He should have been making this decision earlier in the season, so the opening summer would be clearing out players we don't want.

Here we are a few weeks before transfer close and we have only sold Blind.
How much time spent on Alderwerald, to then be surprised Spurs are being difficult to deal with?
How much time was spent on Sandro to then the indication being we don't want to meet the fee, and proper order. £50m for him, go and ****e.

With pre-season having started and no real strong links going on, I get what Mourinho means. This isn't looking great prep for the season ahead, where its make or break for him.

But at the same time, he has likely contributed to the mess himself.

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 11:53AM

Cotts72 wrote: »

The martial of last night fails to inspire any hope in me! Willian and Alderweireld are experienced players who will improve the team and could be key to united challenging for the title

This is just a preseason game and players are barely fit. He was very poor, no doubt about it and he wants to leave because of Jose.

If are selling, we should sell him to other league clubs. Not to sign Willian, a player we will have to replace 2-3 years again and he isn't even that good player.

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 11:54AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Well then the club is a fcukin disgrace tbh. If they dont trust Jose just sack him and get someone they trust. If this idea is true the club are gunna waste a season and cause us to go backwards (again) just so they can remove the manager half way through?

I'd imagine they don't want to remove the manager and go through another hefty payout for a coach, nevermind the hefty payout for Mourinho on his new deal.

But there does come a time where a business needs to be business like. Its not a sweet shop.

The answer to our problems isn't constantly "sign more players", it's not unrealistic or "a disgrace" for the club to require the manager to actually perform the fundamental role of their job.

And that's me speculating btw, there is nothing substantial to say this is the case. I could just imagine myself sitting there, looking at what he wants to sign and our links the costs and maybe being "ah here, hold on a ****ing second".

If we are talking about the likes of Gareth Bale or something all well and good. But it just looks like there is no real plan this summer. Or that is how it feels.

Some shock that Alderwerald is costing a lot more then he should, like it's a surprise.

I just feel disheartened by his excuses, moaning and the general material floating around. It's not like everyone didn't know there was a World Cup and a shorter window, months and months in advance. And I can see why we are struggling to shift players. Players on $$ they likely won't get anywhere else and even at a club size they won't get anywhere else.

It's why I advocate for a new structure at the club, where a longterm group is managing planning and squad building and maintenance at a high level, and we move away from the totally outdated model of handing a single person all the responsibility. ESPECIALLY in an environment that is even more short term now in terms of the employment. As mentioned in previous posts, still trying to shift the deadwood from Van Gaal era.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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