Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 11:15AM

Reading boards after few months and still same **** about Pogba.

Some of the posts make Souness look sane.

Some guy even said he was very poor for 2 seasons, no idea what these guys watch when our game is on.

Trigger · 16-07-2018 11:31AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Reading boards after few months and still same **** about Pogba.

Some of the posts make Souness look sane.

Some guy even said he was very poor for 2 seasons, no idea what these guys watch when our game is on.

Sorry giggsy, but instead of taking pops at posters maybe challenge their posts with a thought out discussion and have a reasonable debate, people are allowed to have opposing views to you. It would make for a better discussion than coming in with the likes of the above which will only tend to rile people up the wrong way.

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 11:38AM

astradave wrote: »

Sorry giggsy, but instead of taking pops at posters maybe challenge their posts with a thought out discussion and have a reasonable debate, people are allowed to have opposing views to you. It would make for a better discussion than coming in with the likes of the above which will only tend to rile people up the wrong way.

You can't have a reasonable debate when the point is "Pogba was very poor for 2 seasons".

Pogba was very good last season except very few games, then the **** show started with Jose which somehow made people to rewrite the entire season. From midfield position, he has contributed to 16 goals in equivalent of 24 games, what more do you expect from a player?

If people are going by "If he can for France, then why not for ManUtd" are ignoring very basic points, that expectations are different, instructions are different. For France, Pogba don't have to create chances, he can spread the play and then hold his position. Same is not true at ManUtd. He is our best creative player, he is our only player who has a passing range and also ability to carry ball forward from midfield.

1 player can't play all the roles at once. For France he plays restricted and well defined role. How many times did he make runs to the box for France? Almost none. At ManUtd he is expected to make forward runs, he even said how Carrick is helping him in that.

To put it simple, the France Pogba wont be of much use to us as our attacking play is not up to the mark and Pogba is our main creative player who should play in advanced positions.

jayo26 · 16-07-2018 11:45AM

So we have moved on to pogba is restricted for France that's why he is better but he is expected to do to much by Jose?

All the excuses been made and it's simple as him taking the finger out and putting in the effort that's all it is.

Pogba was very good for us his first season I defence him to the last and up until Christmas last year he was our best performer when he wasn't injured but he was still putting in the effort.

Then after Christmas pogba strolls around the pitch looking lazy that's all it was it isn't tactics or anything it's his bloody effort if he lives the club like he claims then he will run for the club no matter who the manager or tactics are it's as simple as that if I see him putting in effort Then you can't complain you have to blame the manager.

pjohnson · 16-07-2018 11:49AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

You can't have a reasonable debate when the point is "Pogba was very poor for 2 seasons".

Pogba was very good last season except very few games, then the **** show started with Jose which somehow made people to rewrite the entire season. From midfield position, he has contributed to 16 goals in equivalent of 24 games, what more do you expect from a player?

If people are going by "If he can for France, then why not for ManUtd" are ignoring very basic points, that expectations are different, instructions are different. For France, Pogba don't have to create chances, he can spread the play and then hold his position. Same is not true at ManUtd. He is our best creative player, he is our only player who has a passing range and also ability to carry ball forward from midfield.

1 player can't play all the roles at once. For France he plays restricted and well defined role. How many times did he make runs to the box for France? Almost none. At ManUtd he is expected to make forward runs, he even said how Carrick is helping him in that.

To put it simple, the France Pogba wont be of much use to us as our attacking play is not up to the mark and Pogba is our main creative player who should play in advanced positions.

What?

Pogba when Jose played him in a two played poorly because he was expected to contribute defensively and the #10 was affecting his forward contributions. Now he should only be expected to play defensively and cut out forward runs? Thats quite a flip.

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 11:50AM

jayo26 wrote: »

Snow we have moved on to pogba is restricted for France that's why he is better but he is expected to do to much by Jose?

All the excuses been made and it's simple as him taking the finger out and putting in the effort that's all it is.

Pogba was very good for us his first season I defence him to the last and up until Christmas last year he was our best performer when he wasn't injured but he was still putting in the effort.

Then after Christmas pogba strolls around the pitch looking lazy that's all it was it isn't tactics or anything it's his bloody effort if he lives the club like he claims then he will run for the club no matter who the manager or tactics are it's as simple as that if I see him putting in effort Then you can't complain you have to blame the manager.

Not sure how that is even debatable at this point. It's not even taking shot at Jose, Pogba is much more than just a defensive player like he played for France, but for France they need him for defensive role and have world class attackers to take care.

For ManUtd we need all action Pogba who makes the runs and creates chances.

So your second paragraph is what I'm talking about, **** games against Spurs and Newcastle means he was lazy in the second half of the season. It was the same Pogba who changed the game away against City and in the cup semi finals. He had his poor moments but you don't have to club all 6 months together because of few bad games.

bangkok · 16-07-2018 11:51AM

pjohnson wrote: »

What?

Pogba when Jose played him in a two played poorly because he was expected to contribute defensively and the #10 was affecting his forward contributions. Now he should only be expected to play defensively and cut out forward runs? Thats quite a flip.

i dont think the op said that at all

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 11:52AM

pjohnson wrote: »

What?

Pogba when Jose played him in a two played poorly because he was expected to contribute defensively and the #10 was affecting his forward contributions. Now he should only be expected to play defensively and cut out forward runs? Thats quite a flip.

Where did I say he should play defensively? Do you even read the posts or just see few highlights and reply?

Different teams and different requirements.

I said for France that's what they expect from Pogba and that's what he offers. For ManUtd we need more from Pogba and that's what he offers minus defensive contribution like he did for France.

JaMarcus · 16-07-2018 11:56AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United apparently not commenting on Sanchez not going to the states.

Very odd.

He already had plans to get a haircut it seems.

jayo26 · 16-07-2018 11:56AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Not sure how that is even debatable at this point. It's not even taking shot at Jose, Pogba is much more than just a defensive player like he played for France, but for France they need him for defensive role and have world class attackers to take care.

For ManUtd we need all action Pogba who makes the runs and creates chances.

So your second paragraph is what I'm talking about, **** games against Spurs and Newcastle means he was lazy in the second half of the season. It was the same Pogba who changed the game away against City and in the cup semi finals. He had his poor moments but you don't have to club all 6 months together because of few bad games.

No he did have decent games your right but he was poor or average more often then not that's my opinion I admit he wasn't bad all six months like I said he was but on average he was not putting in effort in enough games.

I'm not having a go at pogba because i hate him or the manager I support both and backed pogba to the last I just expect more effort from him then I seen in most of the second half of last season.

He was out player of the month for April but then he went and did sfa in last couple ganes if season and the cup final.

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 12:03PM

jayo26 wrote: »

No he did have decent games your right but he was poor or average more often then not that's my opinion I admit he wasn't bad all six months like I said he was but on average he was not putting in effort in enough games.

I'm not having a go at pogba because i hate him or the manager I support both and backed pogba to the last I just expect more effort from him then I seen in most of the second half of last season.

He was out player of the month for April but then he went and did sfa in last couple ganes if season and the cup final.

No, he had few poor games like Spurs and Newcastle but more often than not he was good.

Jose dropping him and subbing him out have sort of changed lot of opinions. At least this is better than "He was very poor for 2 seasons".

fatherted1969 · 16-07-2018 12:03PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

You can't have a reasonable debate when the point is "Pogba was very poor for 2 seasons".

Pogba was very good last season except very few games, then the **** show started with Jose which somehow made people to rewrite the entire season. From midfield position, he has contributed to 16 goals in equivalent of 24 games, what more do you expect from a player?

If people are going by "If he can for France, then why not for ManUtd" are ignoring very basic points, that expectations are different, instructions are different. For France, Pogba don't have to create chances, he can spread the play and then hold his position. Same is not true at ManUtd. He is our best creative player, he is our only player who has a passing range and also ability to carry ball forward from midfield.

1 player can't play all the roles at once. For France he plays restricted and well defined role. How many times did he make runs to the box for France? Almost none. At ManUtd he is expected to make forward runs, he even said how Carrick is helping him in that.

To put it simple, the France Pogba wont be of much use to us as our attacking play is not up to the mark and Pogba is our main creative player who should play in advanced positions.

What!!! Pogba was terrible last season for large portions culminating in him being dropped. Couldn't read the rest of your as I was laughing too hard at the first bit

Trigger · 16-07-2018 12:04PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

You can't have a reasonable debate when the point is "Pogba was very poor for 2 seasons".

Pogba was very good last season except very few games, then the **** show started with Jose which somehow made people to rewrite the entire season. From midfield position, he has contributed to 16 goals in equivalent of 24 games, what more do you expect from a player?

If people are going by "If he can for France, then why not for ManUtd" are ignoring very basic points, that expectations are different, instructions are different. For France, Pogba don't have to create chances, he can spread the play and then hold his position. Same is not true at ManUtd. He is our best creative player, he is our only player who has a passing range and also ability to carry ball forward from midfield.

1 player can't play all the roles at once. For France he plays restricted and well defined role. How many times did he make runs to the box for France? Almost none. At ManUtd he is expected to make forward runs, he even said how Carrick is helping him in that.

To put it simple, the France Pogba wont be of much use to us as our attacking play is not up to the mark and Pogba is our main creative player who should play in advanced positions.

Thanks for that Giggsy, I don’t agree with some of the points in it, I will write a longer post later on at lunch or when I’m out of work. Just thought I’d acknowledge your discussion points though

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 12:09PM

fatherted1969 wrote: »

What!!! Pogba was terrible last season for large portions culminating in him being dropped. Couldn't read the rest of your as I was laughing too hard at the first bit

Don't laugh too hard, you might lose whatever sense you have, which isn't much.

pjohnson · 16-07-2018 12:13PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Where did I say he should play defensively? Do you even read the posts or just see few highlights and reply?

Different teams and different requirements.

I said for France that's what they expect from Pogba and that's what he offers. For ManUtd we need more from Pogba and that's what he offers minus defensive contribution like he did for France.

Last year our original requirements were Pogba to do what he just did for France and Jose was blamed for playing Pogba wrong. The whole #FreePogba thing was designed to "Free" Pogba from the responsibilities he had been given as they were hindering him.

People were claiming Pogba couldn't be expected to do what he just did.

Adamocovic · 16-07-2018 12:18PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Where did I say he should play defensively? Do you even read the posts or just see few highlights and reply?

Different teams and different requirements.

I said for France that's what they expect from Pogba and that's what he offers. For ManUtd we need more from Pogba and that's what he offers minus defensive contribution like he did for France.

Have to agree with you Giggsy.

Pogba for France is there to be a control in the middle. The link between the attacking creative players, and covering as much ground as possible. Something France pushed was for him to simplify his style and reduce the flashy side of his game, and it worked.

But like you said for us more is demanded. He played a somewhat similar type of game earlier this season and criticisms were made that he didn't do enough going forward. Because like you say that is what is expected from him. People want him to be a creative hub and attacking threat, but also what him to be a defensive general. It will be interesting if José re-thinks how he uses Pogba after the WC.

Also agree that some of the criticism is extremely overboard. People claiming he was awful or terrible, which just isn't true. Same goes for people who claim he was outstanding or brilliant all season. Personally think he had a good season, some flashes of brilliances coupled with some shocking displays thrown in, but overall good.

I think Mitch's post summed it up nicely.

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 12:18PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Last year our original requirements were Pogba to do what he just did for France and Jose was blamed for playing Pogba wrong. The whole #FreePogba thing was designed to "Free" Pogba from the responsibilities he had been given as they were hindering him.

What has that got to do anything with what I posted?

Again you are missing different teams and different roles. France have amazing players all over the pitch, Pogbs is just another midfielder who does his defensive work and spreads the play, same is not true for us as without Pogba we don't create enough chances and we need Pogba who makes the runs and plays in advanced position. We rely on Pogba to create chances, France don't.

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 12:22PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Have to agree with you Giggsy.

Pogba for France is there to be a control in the middle. The link between the attacking creative players, and covering as much ground as possible. Something France pushed was for him to simplify his style and reduce the flashy side of his game, and it worked.

But like you said for us more is demanded. He played a somewhat similar type of game earlier this season and criticisms were made that he didn't do enough going forward. Because like you say that is what is expected from him. People want him to be a creative hub and attacking threat, but also what him to be a defensive general. It will be interesting if José re-thinks how he uses Pogba after the WC.

Also agree that some of the criticism is extremely overboard. People claiming he was awful or terrible, which just isn't true. Same goes for people who claim he was outstanding or brilliant all season. Personally think he had a good season, some flashes of brilliances coupled with some shocking displays thrown in, but overall good.

I think Mitch's post summed it up nicely.

Thanks Adamocovic, agree with your post too. Like you said, just doing simple things isn't good enough for ManUtd, when he keeps it simple and do just basics he gets criticism for not attacking box or not creating chances.

Different expectations from 2 different teams.

Agree with your last para, he wasn't brilliant or outstanding, he had good season. Hope people calm down a bit and think before "lol what a **** player, poor season" and all that bs. .

deaddonkey15 · 16-07-2018 12:25PM

Pogba wasn't terrible or poor for the last 2 seasons. I think people are being a bid hard on him because he hasn't quite been the all action midfielder we might have expected him to be.

Obviously, he's had some poor games (like all our creative players under Mourinho) but he hasn't been "piss poor" either. France were far from impressive in the group stages of the world cup, and I wouldn't consider Pogba as their standout performer throughout the tournament. They got the rub of the green on a number of occasions too. In fact, I think they got a lot of luck during the tournament. He did a solid, disciplined, and for the most part, unspectacular job for France but an important one nonetheless. He's put in many similar performances for United but then he's playing alongside Lingard and Mata instead of Mbappe and Griezmann.

To sum up: Pogba is perhaps not as good as we all hoped he would be, but he's not as bad as some are making him out to be either.

pjohnson · 16-07-2018 12:30PM

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Pogba wasn't terrible or poor for the last 2 seasons. I think people are being a bid hard on him because he hasn't quite been the all action midfielder we might have expected him to be.

Obviously, he's had some poor games (like all our creative players under Mourinho) but he hasn't been "piss poor" either. France were far from impressive in the group stages of the world cup, and I wouldn't consider Pogba as their standout performer throughout the tournament. They got the rub of the green on a number of occasions too. In fact, I think they got a lot of luck during the tournament. He did a solid, disciplined, and for the most part, unspectacular job for France but an important one nonetheless. He's put in many similar performances for United but then he's playing alongside Lingard and Mata instead of Mbappe and Griezmann.

To sum up: Pogba is perhaps not as good as we all hoped he would be, but he's not as bad as some are making him out to be either.

Have to start cookin dinner now but I'd agree with this for the most part.

Trigger · 16-07-2018 12:31PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Have to start cookin dinner now but I'd agree with this for the most part.

Liar, all your doing is throwing it in the slow cooker

fatherted1969 · 16-07-2018 12:33PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Don't laugh too hard, you might lose whatever sense you have, which isn't much.

Pogba wasn't good last season. He's had a great world cup though. Has been very disciplined in his play over the last few weeks but it's been vastly different to his Utd form. Don't know how this is even up for debate. You being the rock of sense here see things that no one else including his manager didn't see

pjohnson · 16-07-2018 12:33PM

astradave wrote: »

Liar, all your doing is throwing it in the slow cooker

Halogen oven you bítch.

PS. A halogen oven may actually be a slow cooker, I dont actually know what a slow cooker is tbf. All these slang cookery terms.

yourdeadwright · 16-07-2018 12:38PM

Comparing Pogba of France to United is just silly, France have better players than United and at the same time they are also been playing against worse sides than United come up against,
Its useless comparing the two.,
France have Kante and Matudi beside him doing the donkey work and when he gets the ball he realises it to Greizman and Mbappe,
Also the fact that most international sides are afraid of France means he's under very little pressure on the ball as teams don't press them in fear of being picked off,
It's so different in so many ways it's useless to compare.,

bangkok · 16-07-2018 12:40PM

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Pogba wasn't good last season. He's had a great world cup though. Has been very disciplined in his play over the last few weeks but it's been vastly different to his Utd form. Don't know how this is even up for debate. You being the rock of sense here see things that no one else including his manager didn't see

the same manager that picked him nearly every game when he had no injury....:rolleyes:

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 12:41PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Comparing Pogba of France to United is just silly, France have better players than United and at the same time they are also been playing against worse sides than United come up against,
Its useless comparing the two.,
France have Kante and Matudi beside him doing the donkey work and when he gets the ball he realises it to Greizman and Mbappe,
Also the fact that most international sides are afraid of France means he's under very little pressure on the ball as teams don't press them in fear of being picked off,
It's so different in so many ways it's useless to compare.,

Pogba did the donkey work, won more duels than any midfielder in the world cup. Also players not under pressure is also not true. France played defensive and on counter, they were under pressure from players but they picked the passes quicker also because of some excellent forward runs by Griezmann and Mbappe.

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 12:45PM

Jamie Jackson and Hirst are reporting Bale will stay at Madrid. Wonder which player will play as RW next season as that was the weakest spot.

yourdeadwright · 16-07-2018 12:49PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Comparing Pogba of France to United is just silly, France have better players than United and at the same time they are also been playing against worse sides than United come up against,
Its useless comparing the two.,
France have Kante and Matudi beside him doing the donkey work and when he gets the ball he realises it to Greizman and Mbappe,
Also the fact that most international sides are afraid of France means he's under very little pressure on the ball as teams don't press them in fear of being picked off,
It's so different in so many ways it's useless to compare.,

Pogba did the donkey work, won more duels than any midfielder in the world cup. Also players not under pressure is also not true. France played defensive and on counter, they were under pressure from players but they picked the passes quicker also because of some excellent forward runs by Griezmann and Mbappe.

Its apples and pears,
France would have own the world cup without Pogba, He played well no doubt but in a teams that where so much better than anything they played.
To be fair sounds a bit like his Juventus days looking good in a team that strolls games,
Its a different ballgame at United in the Prem week in week out,
Look at Giroud plays every game for the world cup winners, Do you expect him to play week in week out for a top club side ?

Giggsy11 · 16-07-2018 12:51PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its apples and pears,
France would have own the world cup without Pogba, He played well no doubt but in a teams that where so much better than anything they played.
To be fair sounds a bit like his Juventus days looking good in a team that strolls games,
Its a different ballgame at United in the Prem week in week out,
Look at Giroud plays every game for the world cup winners, Do you expect him to play week in week out for a top club side ?

Not even sure what your point is.

Re bold part, well sure, why not.

Difference is Giroud was ****ing terrible and Pogba was among the best midfielders in the world cup.

Trigger · 16-07-2018 12:52PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

You can't have a reasonable debate when the point is "Pogba was very poor for 2 seasons".

You have just begun a reasonable debate

Pogba was very good last season except very few games, then the **** show started with Jose which somehow made people to rewrite the entire season. From midfield position, he has contributed to 16 goals in equivalent of 24 games, what more do you expect from a player?

I don’t think people are trying to rewrite his contribution at all. He started the season off very well playing in a midfield 2. Contributing both offensively and defensively, basically playing as a box to box that we all wanted him to play, unfortunately he hit a dip in form and lost form for a month or two and was pretty inconsistent to his play, this resulted in him getting subbed and dropped from the team. When this was ongoing, just using Themis thread as an example, people were blaming Jose and his tactics of playing him in a two, totally forgetting that he had been great there at the start of the season. They were stating that his best porlsition was higher up the pitch and he should be played in a midfield 3 like he was with Juve

Jose changed his formation after Christmas iirc to 433 and added another midfielder to give Pogba more freedom, but he was still asked to provide cover defensively on the left hand side. While he was grand going forward bar the odd game were he had trouble even passing 5/10 yards his defensive contribution was what riled fans up, he was noticeably not tracking runners and looked as if he didn’t care. Which moves us on to.

If people are going by "If he can for France, then why not for ManUtd" are ignoring very basic points, that expectations are different, instructions are different. For France, Pogba don't have to create chances, he can spread the play and then hold his position. Same is not true at ManUtd. He is our best creative player, he is our only player who has a passing range and also ability to carry ball forward from midfield.

Pogba is asked to play a box to box role with France with more defensive contribution, basically only join the attack when he knows he can contribute to it. Otherwise he is playing as a midfield QB. The same position he was tasked with at the start of last season when I personally thought he played some of his best football since he joined. For France Pogba is tasked with playing incisive thru balls to the quick players thus creating chances, so I don’t think I can agree that he is not there to create chances. just look at his goal yesterday as proof of that.

1 player can't play all the roles at once. For France he plays restricted and well defined role. How many times did he make runs to the box for France? Almost none. At ManUtd he is expected to make forward runs, he even said how Carrick is helping him in that.

Again this kind of ties in with the above, he played a restrictive and defined game with United at the start of the season and in fairness I’d fear for Jose’s mental health if one of his players didn’t have a defined role. :pac: he makes plenty of runs into the box for France in fairness and plays a more creative role than you are making out.

To put it simple, the France Pogba wont be of much use to us as our attacking play is not up to the mark and Pogba is our main creative player who should play in advanced positions.

Can’t agree with that at all as I don’t agree with your assertion that he is truly restricted in his creative play for France. He could easily play the same role for us( and imo I believe he already has)

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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