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Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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Comments

  • #5372
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    I'd completely forgotten that Jose was interested in Shaw before he signed for us. He obviously rated him but now seemingly does not.

    I've said it every year for the last 3 year's, I'd love if Shaw got a sustained run in the team and solidified that position but at this stage, only the most optimistic would think that's in any way likely. He'll leave on a free next summer to somewhere like West Ham or Everton.


  • #5373
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,731 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Disappointed with the Sandro situation if it turns out we had managed to agree terms with the player etc. I know we have to stand up against being held to ransom price-wise over a player but I think you also have to accept the reality that we need a player for that position badly imo, and pay up if it's the right guy.


  • #5374
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    caviardreams wrote: »
    Disappointed with the Sandro situation if it turns out we had managed to agree terms with the player etc. I know we have to stand up against being held to ransom price-wise over a player but I think you also have to accept the reality that we need a player for that position badly imo, and pay up if it's the right guy.

    Surely the price quoted us and psg wouldn't be that different. I know there is premiership tax but one can't imagine it being more than 15 or 20 percent. We aren't like City in that we won't blow big money on a position and be able to do the same the very next year if it doesn't work out with the first one but we have alot of financial clout, no sense having it if we don't flex it now and again. He is only 27 so we could easily get 4 or 5 seasons out of him at a minimum and it's in a position we are sorely lacking.

    If we begin our campaign with Young and Valencia as first choice full backs then we will struggle to get top 4 and it will ultimately cost Jose his job.


  • #5375
    beno619
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭beno619


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Sandro seems this years Peresic. Our tightness will cost us. Nothing new.

    I don't understand your position on over paying for players but selling our own on the cheap.


  • #5376
    Trigger
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    So Castles is saying that we have an agreement with Sandro but are refusing to be bullied by Juve into paying too much. He is now saying Shaw’s reluctance to move on is complicating matters as Sandro is a replacement for shaw.

    He does say in the article(in The Times) that Shaw is for sale


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  • #5377
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,900 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    beno619 wrote: »
    I don't understand your position on over paying for players but selling our own on the cheap.

    I dont see it as over paying when you are bidding for a player who will walk into the starting XI, similarly I dont see the point in trying to keep a 5th choice LB until his contract expires.

    We need top players to compete top players cost a lot of money. We dont need 4 or 5 players for every position so just get rid. No point stockpiling players who arent good enough.


  • #5378
    adox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,083 ✭✭✭✭adox


    If it’s true that Shaw is reluctant to move then that says it all about him and his ambition as a footballer.

    Frozen out of the team, won’t be getting much football next season as it’s obvious the manager doesn’t rate him and yet he’s happy to stay another season not playing football and see out his contract.


  • #5379
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    adox wrote: »
    If it’s true that Shaw is reluctant to move then that says it all about him and his ambition as a footballer.

    Frozen out of the team, won’t be getting much football next season as it’s obvious the manager doesn’t rate him and yet he’s happy to stay another season not playing football and see out his contract.

    Or he is so confident in his ability that he thinks he can push for a starting spot against a 33 year old converted winger and actually rescue his chance at a very top club????

    Come on lads we havent a bloody clue what goes on in the mind of a footballer but if the man wants to fight for his place the he is entitled too its him and the club that signed the contract we cant just question the man's attitude because it suits the club to move him on now to make way for a better player.

    This time last year we all were moaning because Ashley young wouldn't move in the previous January window and look what he did he fought for his place and ended up playing in the semis of the world cup.


  • #5380
    tinofapples
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭tinofapples


    West Ham complete deal for right sided attacking midfielder Felipe Anderson and now they're looking at Bernard from Shaktar.


  • #5381
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    Castles or not, my mind goes to the Morata saga that turned into Lukaku signing from nowhere.

    It is not worth getting worked up by United reportedly unwilling to match asking prices as that reluctance (if true) is because another target, more suitable, may be the ultimate aim.


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  • #5382
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    tinofapples wrote: »
    West Ham complete deal for right sided attacking midfielder Felipe Anderson and now they're looking at Bernard from Shaktar.

    Felipe Anderson is not a right sided midfielder He is a central attacking midfield and left winger type player.

    If United were ever looking at Anderson after what he has been like the past two years of be raging.


  • #5383
    Headshot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,089 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    jayo26 wrote: »
    Felipe Anderson is not a right sided midfielder He is a central attacking midfield and left winger type player.

    If United were ever looking at Anderson after what he has been like the past two years of be raging.

    He's been awful and Lazio must be absolutely delighted with the money


  • #5384
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    Headshot wrote: »
    He's been awful and Lazio must be absolutely delighted with the money

    Exactly I think westham habe been unbelievably stupid. He mad less then 10 starts last year for them and another 20 sub appearances.


  • #5385
    adox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,083 ✭✭✭✭adox


    jayo26 wrote: »
    Or he is so confident in his ability that he thinks he can push for a starting spot against a 33 year old converted winger and actually rescue his chance at a very top club????

    Come on lads we havent a bloody clue what goes on in the mind of a footballer but if the man wants to fight for his place the he is entitled too its him and the club that signed the contract we cant just question the man's attitude because it suits the club to move him on now to make way for a better player.

    This time last year we all were moaning because Ashley young wouldn't move in the previous January window and look what he did he fought for his place and ended up playing in the semis of the world cup.

    Of course he’s entitled to fight for his place but, as an outside observer, it’s obvious that ship sailed along time ago. He’s had two years under this manager and he just isn’t being picked, even though he’s a specialist in that position and was one of the top rated young left backs in the country when he signed. He’s being kept out of the team by a 33 year old converted winger. Not being even on th bench more often than not.

    He’s either deluded or not very ambitious in the footballing sense. It’s time for him to move on. He’s just s nuisance at this stage. The exact sort of player that’s been hanging around the club that needs getting rid of.

    Edit: anyway of course it’s all speculation by me but that’s my reading of it.


  • #5386
    beno619
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭beno619


    pjohnson wrote: »
    I dont see it as over paying when you are bidding for a player who will walk into the starting XI, similarly I dont see the point in trying to keep a 5th choice LB until his contract expires.

    We need top players to compete top players cost a lot of money. We dont need 4 or 5 players for every position so just get rid. No point stockpiling players who arent good enough.

    Getting good value for our players adds to the funds José has available to pay/over pay for the top players.

    Not sure how there is even a debate about this topic, there's no bottemless pit of money.


  • #5387
    Rossi IRL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭Rossi IRL


    beno619 wrote: »
    Getting good value for our players adds to the funds José has available to pay/over pay for the top players.

    Not sure how there is even a debate about this topic, there's no bottemless pit of money.

    Selling them off could save more money in wages though than holding out for an extra few mill in transfer fees and holding on to them for an extra year.


  • #5388
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    adox wrote: »
    He’s either deluded or not very ambitious in the footballing sense. It’s time for him to move on. He’s just s nuisance at this stage. The exact sort of player that’s been hanging around the club that needs getting rid of.

    Edit: anyway of course it’s all speculation by me but that’s my reading of it.

    I can't agree with this at all I think it is harsh and overly wrong. Like I pointed out about young how can we call a professional deluded if he wants to fight for his spot in the team at one of the biggest clubs in the world he may never get this opportunity again he has suffered so much from injuries and yes his attiudltude is obviously wrong but maybe he knows it is his last chance and downs want to give up on it.

    Its not as simple as saying he wants to hang around for money if United want him to leave and accept a transfer from another club then United have to pay him the balance of his wages that Everton or whoever won't match.

    And for been nuisance only a fan could say that apart from the odd story that came from his family he hasn't caused any big problems he seems to be well liked in the club.

    I know the odds are stacked against him but I for one would love for Shaw to make it. everyone know he has the potential.


  • #5389
    Cotts72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭Cotts72


    jayo26 wrote: »
    I can't agree with this at all I think it is harsh and overly wrong. Like I pointed out about young how can we call a professional deluded if he wants to fight for his spot in the team at one of the biggest clubs in the world he may never get this opportunity again he has suffered so much from injuries and yes his attiudltude is obviously wrong but maybe he knows it is his last chance and downs want to give up on it.

    Its not as simple as saying he wants to hang around for money if United want him to leave and accept a transfer from another club then United have to pay him the balance of his wages that Everton or whoever won't match.

    And for been nuisance only a fan could say that apart from the odd story that came from his family he hasn't caused any big problems he seems to be well liked in the club.

    I know the odds are stacked against him but I for one would love for Shaw to make it. everyone know he has the potential.

    Agreed, I've always wamted shaw to make. It and felt he played well in the few games he started last season. Ashley young needs to be phased out he did a solid job last season but would much prefer to see shaw and Sandro compete /alternate


  • #5390
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    jayo26 wrote: »
    I can't agree with this at all I think it is harsh and overly wrong. Like I pointed out about young how can we call a professional deluded if he wants to fight for his spot in the team at one of the biggest clubs in the world he may never get this opportunity again he has suffered so much from injuries and yes his attiudltude is obviously wrong but maybe he knows it is his last chance and downs want to give up on it.

    Its not as simple as saying he wants to hang around for money if United want him to leave and accept a transfer from another club then United have to pay him the balance of his wages that Everton or whoever won't match.

    And for been nuisance only a fan could say that apart from the odd story that came from his family he hasn't caused any big problems he seems to be well liked in the club.

    I know the odds are stacked against him but I for one would love for Shaw to make it. everyone know he has the potential.

    So would I but I’d also like us to have the best possible chance of winning a league and I think it may be someone else’s turn at this stage.


  • #5391
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    Will I Am Not wrote: »
    So would I but I’d also like us to have the best possible chance of winning a league and I think it may be someone else’s turn at this stage.

    I agree but I don't think it's left back that's the problem I think we could push for the league with Shaw and young at left back im more worried about the right.

    The fact we are going into the new league with valencia as out captain and him and a kid on the.right makes me more worried then out left does.

    If we signed a world class right winger and a central defender I'd be more more confident them I would if we signed a new left back.


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  • #5392
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    jayo26 wrote: »
    I agree but I don't think it's left back that's the problem I think we could push for the league with Shaw and young at left back im more worried about the right.

    The fact we are going into the new league with valencia as out captain and him and a kid on the.right makes me more worried then out left does.

    If we signed a world class right winger and a central defender I'd be more more confident them I would if we signed a new left back.

    Left back is a problem though. Shaw is being kept out by Ashley Young and he hasn’t shown he deserves to be there ahead of him. We need an upgrade on both full backs.


  • #5393
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    Will I Am Not wrote: »
    Left back is a problem though. Shaw is being kept out by Ashley Young and he hasn’t shown he deserves to be there ahead of him. We need an upgrade on both full backs.

    Its not a problem thats stopping us from winning league is my point.

    As the team is now and assuming we are going with Toni Valencia as right back next year out mist important role is a new right winger that will create from the right.

    Then we need a center back and a backup striker and left back in that order. If we could get rid if Valencia I'd say a new right back is more important then a left back.


  • #5394
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,424 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Sometimes when I see a Shaw discussion I think to myself, "I should just quote what I said every summer for the last three years because not a single thing has changed". So I searched my posts and dear god, how true that was.

    This is one example that stood out:
    Luke Shaw again?

    I said he was done a long time ago, its now October 2017 and not a single thing has happened since to prove me wrong.

    Google tells me he has been available for selection since Aug 20th, yet it is to the shock and surprise of absolutely nobody that he remains nowhere near a first team spot.

    I wish I was wrong, I really do, but we have had this conversation many times and the only thing that has changed is the number of years it has been since Shaw had a good game for Manchester United.

    He was £30 million when that was still a crazy amount of money, I still don't think he has the character to make it happen, I still think he won't make it at Manchester United.

    See you all again in 4 months!

    It stood out mainly because Jayo was the next post in that thread and was saying Shaw deserved another chance then too.

    But its crazy lads, the club simply cannot keep making these same mistakes year after year after year. I could copy and paste a dozen posts from 2016 and 2017, post them today and nobody would know they were old posts because they would still be directly relevant to the Luke Shaw situation. What does that say about a club that continues to enable these underperforming footballers?


  • #5395
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Sometimes when I see a Shaw discussion I think to myself, "I should just quote what I said every summer for the last three years because not a single thing has changed". So I searched my posts and dear god, how true that was.

    This is one example that stood out:

    It stood out mainly because Jayo was the next post in that thread and was saying Shaw deserved another chance then too.

    But its crazy lads, the club simply cannot keep making these same mistakes year after year after year. I could copy and paste a dozen posts from 2016 and 2017, post them today and nobody would know they were old posts because they would still be directly relevant to the Luke Shaw situation. What does that say about a club that continues to enable these underperforming footballers?

    my original argument here today is the lads calling him out because he wouldn't leave United I don't think it's right.

    Yes Shaw has failed and he will probably failed again but if he wants to take his last chance at the club no one has a right to call him a nuisance or deluded or money grabbing because if it.

    What I'm saying in my last couple of posts is I don't believe having young and Shaw as our left backs is as bad as having Valencia as out right back i believe young has been better then Valencia recently so if Shaw wants to try again it's not as big a problem to me as other position in the team Is!!


  • #5396
    beno619
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭beno619


    Rossi IRL wrote: »
    Selling them off could save more money in wages though than holding out for an extra few mill in transfer fees and holding on to them for an extra year.

    The window is still open, if they are up for sale and an acceptable offer comes in they will be sold if not they will be useful once the inevitable injury crisis strikes.


  • #5397
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,900 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    jayo26 wrote: »
    my original argument here today is the lads calling him out because he wouldn't leave United I don't think it's right.

    Yes Shaw has failed and he will probably failed again but if he wants to take his last chance at the club no one has a right to call him a nuisance or deluded or money grabbing because if it.

    What I'm saying in my last couple of posts is I don't believe having young and Shaw as our left backs is as bad as having Valencia as out right back i believe young has been better then Valencia recently so if Shaw wants to try again it's not as big a problem to me as other position in the team Is!!

    I agree. The left back issue is being blown completely out of proportion. We could sign Marcelo at LB but our right side would still be where attacks go to die so we would be no better off than we are now.


  • #5398
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,900 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    beno619 wrote: »
    The window is still open, if they are up for sale and an acceptable offer comes in they will be sold if not they will be useful once the inevitable injury crisis strikes.

    Yep. When the 4-5 full backs ahead of them all get crocked at the same time!

    And then they both leave for zero as free agents anyway.


  • #5399
    jayo26
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭jayo26


    pjohnson wrote: »
    I agree. The left back issue is being blown completely out of proportion. We could sign Marcelo at LB but our right side would still be where attacks go to die so we would be no better off than we are now.

    Exactly and it was the same in the winter.

    When we were all excited over Sanchez coming I said then unless we were brining Sanchez in to play on the right if midfield it would not change how we play or solve our attacking problems.

    United's fundamental problem Is that we are so easy to defend against teams can use a flat back four and have it really narrow and focused central and to our left because they know we have no danger whatsoever on the right. Only occasionally will Valencia get an assist over there or a goal.


  • #5400
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    I am not sure that United are guilty of waiting too long for a player to come good. They have moved on a lot of players and I think the club must have some belief, at least up to Xmas last season that Shaw could be the player they wanted.

    Just look at the number of players moved on in a short enough time.

    Bastian, Depay, Morgan, Rooney, Blind (soon), Darmian (soon), Januzaj, Miki,

    Di Maria, Chicarito, Evans, Welbeck, RVP, Rafael, Cleverley, Nani, Kagawa, Zaha

    Probably more...


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  • #5401
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Sometimes when I see a Shaw discussion I think to myself, "I should just quote what I said every summer for the last three years because not a single thing has changed". So I searched my posts and dear god, how true that was.

    This is one example that stood out:

    It stood out mainly because Jayo was the next post in that thread and was saying Shaw deserved another chance then too.

    But its crazy lads, the club simply cannot keep making these same mistakes year after year after year. I could copy and paste a dozen posts from 2016 and 2017, post them today and nobody would know they were old posts because they would still be directly relevant to the Luke Shaw situation. What does that say about a club that continues to enable these underperforming footballers?

    I don't think that many people are arguing for Luke Shaw to be given a chance to stake a place. The argument today is whether or not he is delusional to think that he can get back in the team. I'd say he is probably delusional, but elite athletes backing themselves is not a new thing at all so I'm not surprised that he thinks he can do it. I don't necessarily blame him for not wanting to leave, even if I think it would be better for the club if we were forced into buying a new LB


This discussion has been closed.
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