Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

paulbok · 09-07-2018 10:33PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

I just don't get how people can see those photos and question Shaw's appetite....

...for success.

Pictures like that can tip the scales one way or the other

Lithium93_ · 09-07-2018 10:38PM

astradave wrote: »

There isn’t many puns about weight tbh, pretty slim pickings

Adamocovic wrote: »

Yeah, I think we've bitten off more than we can chew with this one.

Adamocovic wrote: »

I just don't get how people can see those photos and question Shaw's appetite....

...for success.

paulbok wrote: »

Pictures like that can tip the scales one way or the other

:pac:

fatherted1969 · 09-07-2018 10:41PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Yeah, I think we've bitten off more than we can chew with this one.

Fat chance of me getting drawn into this

beno619 · 09-07-2018 10:43PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But also players United clearly don't want. So United has the choice of selling at a less than inflated price or keeping them in contract, costing further millions til they leave on a free.

Also, keeling them means we don't replace them, which means the squad is weakened moving into the future too.

Or they can sell for a fair price which I believe were looking for. Both are full internationals €17m - €20m would be fair price. They are more use to us in the case of our yearly injury crisis then the pennies some people would like to see them sold for.

We should probably just agree to disagree on this one.

jayo26 · 09-07-2018 10:45PM

She you see him training like that in sire it has a heavy impact on how Jose feel a about him.

He looks hungry to feed his desire start more games.

I really hope all the guys that laid into him get their just desserts.

Cantona's Collars · 09-07-2018 10:47PM

Napoli now interested in Darmian,all they gotta do is pay the fee quoted by United.

Trigger · 09-07-2018 10:54PM

Napoli inter an Juve all interested.. maybe we should put the price up

Mitch Connor · 09-07-2018 10:57PM

beno619 wrote: »

Or they can sell for a fair price which I believe were looking for. Both are full internationals €17m - €20m would be fair price. They are more use to us in the case of our yearly injury crisis then the pennies some people would like to see them sold for.

We should probably just agree to disagree on this one.

But we'd be better off getting better players that Jose will pick. Keeping them for the sake of making an extra 5 or 10 between them and being stuck with them rather than a player Jose wants to bring in seems like a bad way to try to win titles.

pjohnson · 09-07-2018 11:35PM

beno619 wrote: »

Or they can sell for a fair price which I believe were looking for. Both are full internationals €17m - €20m would be fair price. They are more use to us in the case of our yearly injury crisis then the pennies some people would like to see them sold for.

We should probably just agree to disagree on this one.

They got 7 games each last year.......

pjohnson · 09-07-2018 11:37PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But we'd be better off getting better players that Jose will pick. Keeping them for the sake of making an extra 5 or 10 between them and being stuck with them rather than a player Jose wants to bring in seems like a bad way to try to win titles.

Well they are both gone next summer for zero anyway unless we excise Darmians extension like we did Blind's. So its make money now or loose on a free and just waste wages on them.

bucketybuck · 09-07-2018 11:43PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But we'd be better off getting better players that Jose will pick. Keeping them for the sake of making an extra 5 or 10 between them and being stuck with them rather than a player Jose wants to bring in seems like a bad way to try to win titles.

Keeping them or not will have pretty much zero effect on any title challenge next season.

Keeping them will not stop Jose buying a player he really wants, selling them won't make any tangible difference to the money Jose has to spend.

Being stuck with them might have a financial cost but in terms of hurting our title chances it simply won't, not unless they are actively stalking the corridors at night looking for lone first team players to bump off.

Mitch Connor · 09-07-2018 11:58PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Keeping them or not will have pretty much zero effect on any title challenge next season.

Keeping them will not stop Jose buying a player he really wants, selling them won't make any tangible difference to the money Jose has to spend.

Being stuck with them might have a financial cost but in terms of hurting our title chances it simply won't, not unless they are actively stalking the corridors at night looking for lone first team players to bump off.

But it will. Not because of transfer funds, and not just because of wages, but simple squad size - we won't replace them if we are not selling them.

You mention it wont effect the money Jose has to spend.... So why dig the heals in to get value rather than get rid and make room to bring in their replacement? It's not like we are at the start of the summer - 4 weeks left to get players out and in. Do we have the time to play games if the club has any ambition of lifting trophies in May? We need a bunch in and a bunch out, Woodward needs to get a move on.

bucketybuck · 10-07-2018 12:05AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But it will. Not because of transfer funds, and not just because of wages, but simple squad size - we won't replace them if we are not selling them.

You mention it wont effect the money Jose has to spend.... So why dig the heals in to get value rather than get rid and make room to bring in their replacement? It's not like we are at the start of the summer - 4 weeks left to get players out and in. Do we have the time to play games if the club has any ambition of lifting trophies in May? We need a bunch in and a bunch out, Woodward needs to get a move on.

Even the rich can be financially prudent, if the club feels they can get more money and there is no harm in the attempt, then why not try it?

And no, I don't particularly think it matters much if we have a squad of 29 or a squad of 27, we can afford a few more chairs in the video room. And they won't be stopping the purchase of any first team players, even if they were replaced it would be with kids or some other random punt for squad number 29.

I expect outs this summer and I expect these players to be part of those outs, but I don't agree that it matters to the clubs title chances if these two players sit on the sidelines or not.

beno619 · 10-07-2018 06:33AM

pjohnson wrote: »

They got 7 games each last year.......

Ive head this argument I think the profile of the players outweighs the lack of game time.

10-07-2018 07:41AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But it will. Not because of transfer funds, and not just because of wages, but simple squad size - we won't replace them if we are not selling them.

You mention it wont effect the money Jose has to spend.... So why dig the heals in to get value rather than get rid and make room to bring in their replacement? It's not like we are at the start of the summer - 4 weeks left to get players out and in. Do we have the time to play games if the club has any ambition of lifting trophies in May? We need a bunch in and a bunch out, Woodward needs to get a move on.

Why do you keep talking about replacing players that you yourself say won't play/haven't played? United don't need a bunch in. They need a right winger and a backup striker provided Jose is happy with Shaw and Young at LB which it's starting to look like he is. Potentially Sandro as well if he's not.

How much would United spend to replace them and who would accept the same amount of game time as Blind and be as dependable?

You've lost the run of yourself thinking about this. The fact that they would have to be replaced is a reason for keeping them rather than selling them, not the other way around.

Backstreet Moyes · 10-07-2018 08:09AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But it will. Not because of transfer funds, and not just because of wages, but simple squad size - we won't replace them if we are not selling them.

You mention it wont effect the money Jose has to spend.... So why dig the heals in to get value rather than get rid and make room to bring in their replacement? It's not like we are at the start of the summer - 4 weeks left to get players out and in. Do we have the time to play games if the club has any ambition of lifting trophies in May? We need a bunch in and a bunch out, Woodward needs to get a move on.

Because if you send out a message that you will sell on the cheap if teams play hardball then it sets a precendence for future transfers.

I would rather keep them unless the asking price is met and set the precedence that if you want a player you pay the asking price.

Mitch Connor · 10-07-2018 08:52AM

Liam O wrote: »

Why do you keep talking about replacing players that you yourself say won't play/haven't played? United don't need a bunch in. They need a right winger and a backup striker provided Jose is happy with Shaw and Young at LB which it's starting to look like he is. Potentially Sandro as well if he's not.

How much would United spend to replace them and who would accept the same amount of game time as Blind and be as dependable?

You've lost the run of yourself thinking about this. The fact that they would have to be replaced is a reason for keeping them rather than selling them, not the other way around.

United work to a squad size - if we don't reduce the size of the squad by getting rid of players we don't want we won't be bringing players in.

If we end up stuck with Blind and Darmian to try make a few million more on sales we will end up paying 7.5million to 10million in wages to them this season, possibly lose them on a free next summer and not improve the squad to the extent Jose wants cause 2 squad places will be used up by players who started less than 10 league games between them last season.

This isn't United playing hardball on fee's over someone like DDG, or Martial, or Pogba - these are players that United don't use and don't want.

EDIT:

Also - if United want to win the league of compete for the CL we need: LB, CB,RW at least. On top of the CM and RB we already brought in. We don't get those deals and we won't win the league or CL, nor do we have any aspirations too. Last year proved the squad isn't good enough, and we haven't addressed the weaknesses.

bangkok · 10-07-2018 09:10AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United work to a squad size - if we don't reduce the size of the squad by getting rid of players we don't want we won't be bringing players in.

If we end up stuck with Blind and Darmian to try make a few million more on sales we will end up paying 7.5million to 10million in wages to them this season, possibly lose them on a free next summer and not improve the squad to the extent Jose wants cause 2 squad places will be used up by players who started less than 10 league games between them last season.

This isn't United playing hardball on fee's over someone like DDG, or Martial, or Pogba - these are players that United don't use and don't want.

EDIT:

Also - if United want to win the league of compete for the CL we need: LB, CB,RW at least. On top of the CM and RB we already brought in. We don't get those deals and we won't win the league or CL, nor do we have any aspirations too. Last year proved the squad isn't good enough, and we haven't addressed the weaknesses.

If we switch to 4-3-2-1 which i think we may this season, we dont need to sign a right winger. Centre back is a must though

Adamocovic · 10-07-2018 09:10AM

So with pre-season fast approaching let's look at the youngsters likely to be given a shot.
We know from past experience this doesn't mean they will make it at senior level but interesting no doubt.

Mason Greenwood: Absolutely lit up the u18s Premier League North, finished top-scorer, but he's still just 16. Seems to be confirmed on the travelling squad as he hasn't been brought along with the youths. Who knows maybe José is proving people wrong and sees Greenwood as backup for Lukaku. Probably not.

Angel Gomes: This man has been tipped as United's next star by many (or Nani) for around the last 3-4 years so you'd be mistaken to think he was older than 17 years old. Still a lot of promise and expectations around him. Signed his first pro contract with us in December so you would either expect him to become a squad rotation player or more than likely head out on loan.

Tahith Chong: The oldest on the list at 18 years old. A lot have tipped this guy. Won the Jimmy Murphy Youth Team Player of the Year for last season and guys...he can play on the RW! Not to mention his hair would put Fellaini to shame.

James Garner: I think oul Jimmy's Dad let slip that he will be on the tour. Another midfielder, 17 years old, referred to by some as a true leader in the youth team, and has a big admiration for Carrick.

Mitch Connor · 10-07-2018 09:12AM

bangkok wrote: »

If we switch to 4-3-2-1 which i think we may this season, we dont need to sign a right winger. Centre back is a must though

If we did that, and I have no idea what you are basing that opinion on at all, then we need a new left back and a new right back cause our current first choice options don't provide anywhere close to good enough width and threat to run that formation.

bangkok · 10-07-2018 09:50AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If we did that, and I have no idea what you are basing that opinion on at all, then we need a new left back and a new right back cause our current first choice options don't provide anywhere close to good enough width and threat to run that formation.

The signing of fred, the form of Pogba and lingard at the world cup, the form of lingard last season. Sanchez.

Sanchez/martial and Lingard/rashford playing in a 2 behind lukaku.

Dalot signing for right back. Fosu mensah coming back. New lb possibly coming in

Niska · 10-07-2018 10:26AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

James Garner: I think oul Jimmy's Dad let slip that he will be on the tour. Another midfielder, 17 years old, referred to by some as a true leader in the youth team, and has a big admiration for Carrick.

Planet football did a quick read on him (based on his father's tweet):

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/profiling-man-utd-prospect-james-garner-already-a-leader-at-17-years-old/

Its a bit light, very much a quick overview.

Continuing the theme of leadership, Garner is captain of England’s Under-17 side, playing every minute as they reached the semi-finals of the European Championships this year, where they were beaten by eventual winners the Netherlands on penalties.

Paul Saffer, who covered England at the tournament for UEFA, praised Garner for “controlling this game in midfield” during the 2-0 victory over Norway in the quarter-finals.

10-07-2018 10:30AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United work to a squad size - if we don't reduce the size of the squad by getting rid of players we don't want we won't be bringing players in.

If we end up stuck with Blind and Darmian to try make a few million more on sales we will end up paying 7.5million to 10million in wages to them this season, possibly lose them on a free next summer and not improve the squad to the extent Jose wants cause 2 squad places will be used up by players who started less than 10 league games between them last season.

This isn't United playing hardball on fee's over someone like DDG, or Martial, or Pogba - these are players that United don't use and don't want.

EDIT:

Also - if United want to win the league of compete for the CL we need: LB, CB,RW at least. On top of the CM and RB we already brought in. We don't get those deals and we won't win the league or CL, nor do we have any aspirations too. Last year proved the squad isn't good enough, and we haven't addressed the weaknesses.

You still haven't said who these replacements would be who would be happy to be on the bench and would be of the required standard in a crisis?

CB would have to be a sell to buy. I'd be happy enough to rotate Jones, Bailly and Lindelof between the 2 spots but 2 of them can't seem to stay fit. But then who is the CB that's linked? Alderwiereld who spent most of last season injured.

LB I'm happy to give Shaw a season. I believe he could step up this season. Buying a 60m LB means he's out and I think it would be a shame as he could still prove to be the player required.

Ultimately I'd even be happy to see what would happen if nobody left or came in at this stage as there is a lot of talent ready to break out imo and just need that push. I think the club has been hampered by a lack of consistency in recent years and ripping it up again will lead to more disjointed performances and the same people in here next year asking for 5 more new signings.

bangkok · 10-07-2018 10:33AM

Liam O wrote: »

You still haven't said who these replacements would be who would be happy to be on the bench and would be of the required standard in a crisis?

CB would have to be a sell to buy. I'd be happy enough to rotate Jones, Bailly and Lindelof between the 2 spots but 2 of them can't seem to stay fit. But then who is the CB that's linked? Alderwiereld who spent most of last season injured.

LB I'm happy to give Shaw a season. I believe he could step up this season. Buying a 60m LB means he's out and I think it would be a shame as he could still prove to be the player required.

Ultimately I'd even be happy to see what would happen if nobody left or came in at this stage as there is a lot of talent ready to break out imo and just need that push. I think the club has been hampered by a lack of consistency in recent years and ripping it up again will lead to more disjointed performances and the same people in here next year asking for 5 more new signings.

Id be happy to sell darmian blind rojo smalling and bring in sandro and maguire

fatherted1969 · 10-07-2018 10:34AM

pjohnson wrote: »

They got 7 games each last year.......

If that's the case then sell them and promote Gomes, Chong, TFM and Perreira to the first team squad. Those 7 games will benefit those 4 lads a lot more. Wouldn't mind seeing TFM challenging Valencia on the right if we don't spend on another RB. Looking forward to seeing Chong break into this squad. Hopefully Mourinho gives them a chance, a proper chance

10-07-2018 10:46AM

bangkok wrote: »

Id be happy to sell darmian blind rojo smalling and bring in sandro and maguire

And then what happens when Jones and Bailly go down and suddenly it's Lindelof and Maguire with no backup outside of the youth team?

Smalling isn't good enough on the ball but his aerial ability can be useful against teams that won't attack much and hoof it forward. I'd be happy with him as 4th or 5th choice so long as he wasn't playing all the time.

As I said I'd be happy to have this year as one for the current players to show if they're up to it in a functioning team and with a lot of them coming off good world cups. More needs to come from full back but at this stage it looks like we're stuck with Valencia again so if Shaw can step up it will make a big difference. I believe that he can despite what others think.

bangkok · 10-07-2018 11:04AM

'Saints agree £13.5m Gunn deal'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11431748

When you see city getting that sort of money for a keeper, utd are dead right to hold out for decent money for blind and darmian

bucketybuck · 10-07-2018 11:04AM

bangkok wrote: »

Dalot signing for right back. Fosu mensah coming back. New lb possibly coming in

Yeah, lets build our formation around that, a solid basis for a title challenge right there.

Drumpot · 10-07-2018 11:15AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Made a 15 million loss, 25% on di Maria.

Made a potentially 9million loss, 30% or so on Depay.

20% loss, to maybe even, on Schneiderlin.

So mostly losses on the three players you have listed.

Cool, we sell blind and Darmian for losses too and it will be easier to sell them, as I've implied.

Don’t forget to add inflation. Player costs go up annually, some years more then others. I’d say 10% increase per year on average is not over stating it. Even if we take Ronaldo being sold for £80 mill in 2009 and Neymar going for £200mil in 2017 as a rough benchmark (Neymar isn’t a patch of the quality on Ronaldo IMO).

So selling a player after three years for the same price you bought then could actually equate to a 30% loss in value.

Cantona's Collars · 10-07-2018 11:18AM

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/1016594837842296832

"Tuttosport reckon Alex Sandro price now down to €35-40m, could be more tempting for Man United."

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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