Anyone willing to admit that they supported the IRA at any point?

FrancieBrady · 08-07-2018 12:10AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

I think if a kid sees an adult support a particular cause, it seems like permission to do likewise.

Evil is not monopolized by any single group. It is spread throughout all of humanity and it is constantly in a state of flux between populations and places. Those of us who believe in God and Satan are aware of the invisible forces of evil and the need to separate it from what is good.

One thing that is often overlooked about the treaty of 1920 was the oath of allegiance. The first representatives of the Dáil either had allegiance to the crown or more probably, they lied on oath. To lie on oath is to purger oneself. This was not a good basis for the foundation of the state.

Yet Britain, who recognise the aspiration to Irish unity still insist on it (the oath) if elected representatives are to represent their constituents in parliament.
It's ok to not recognise the crown in a region claimed as British but not ok in 'real' Britain.

We haven't moved on much.

umop episdn · 08-07-2018 12:11AM

Some haven't moved on at all .....

realitykeeper · 08-07-2018 12:30AM

umop episdn wrote: »

Some haven't moved on at all .....

God has a long memory. If the founding father`s lied on oath, that matters. It shaped the country we have and its repercussions will shape the future.

FrancieBrady · 08-07-2018 12:34AM

umop episdn wrote: »

Some haven't moved on at all .....

Yep. And July is the month to spot it.

MadDog76 · 08-07-2018 12:39AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While their aims are understandable I will never support any group that thinks maiming and killing innocent people to achieve their goals is acceptable and would be very wary of anyone who did or does support such actions.

The Brits are terrorists and criminals as far as I’m concerned.

FYP

Bridge93 · 08-07-2018 01:21AM

Not old enough or geographically proximate enough to have 'supported' the IRA myself. But as an Irishman I feel I can rationalise to myself a certain agreement and appreciation of them and what they initially did and stood for.
There's any number of reasons why my view changes about them from Nazi collaboration to out and out terrorism in the North and Britain but I guess, on the whole, yes you could say I support what they stood for at some point

Hamlet. · 09-07-2018 03:15AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Nope, never supported it or their campaign. Both sides were as bad as each other really.

What really saddens me though is the number of armchair republicans that still seem to be lurking out there spreading the old hatred and still living in those bad old days. You see it here anytime a SF/IRA or "British" thread pops up.

Then there's the whole thing of people gleefully hoping Brexit turns out to be such a disaster so that the UK will suffer from it and "we" will get a united Ireland from it.

I have no interest in either.. I am on record here as having serious issues with the way the EU has evolved over particularly the last decade and fully support those who are questioning this direction rather than blindly accepting the narrative that it's the only way for Europe, and anything else is just impossible - if the UK actually comes through it and prospers in the next few years it'll be a disaster for the EU as many other countries will start to pull out IMO (and that's also why the massive campaign of discrediting the electorate's decision has been waged. The EU simply cannot afford for Brexit to succeed).

As for Ireland... We have more than enough problems domestically as it is without taking on the significant problems that absorbing Northern Ireland would represent - economically, structurally and of course the very real possibility that it could result in significant security problems. Problems which thankfully have largely been put behind us.

I think people's expression of a desire for a united Ireland is purely superficial without any real thoughts of the consequences it would bring - put bluntly, we can barely run the country we have (housing, health, the economic divides between Dublin and the rest of the country, the political incompetence and corruption and general half-assed approaches to pretty much everything) , are busy pulling more people out of the tax system each year (imagine if people were told they'd need to pay another 150 quid of their monthly wage towards a "unification/solidarity" charge - how many would still be supportive then??), and given the largely bloated and inefficient mess that is our public sector and state services, imagine trying to integrate the systems of the North into that (assuming anyone would actually rather the HSE over the NHS for example).

The best thing that can happen is some sort of border arrangement that reasonably tries to accommodate both sides (if such a thing is even possible on an island with 2 jurisdictions that will be even further apart in some ways), but anything more is just fantasy IMO.

Embarrassing post. Clearly you have a sad west Brit brainwashed view of history. I strongly urge you to actually research the troubles and the history of your country as it doesn't take a genius to understand that you are terribly lacking in knowledge in this department.

the_syco · 09-07-2018 03:24AM

Hamlet. wrote: »

I strongly urge you to actually research the troubles

The troubles; give us what we want, or we'll bomb your cities :pac:

Hamlet. · 09-07-2018 03:32AM

the_syco wrote: »

The troubles; give us what we want, or we'll bomb your cities :pac:

What we want? Or what is ours?

The IRA never came close to the evils that the British committed this country too. Simply research the topic and you'll understand this.

skooterblue2 · 09-07-2018 01:53PM

maccored wrote: »

was it the iraq war that the brits where showing the americans how to engage in close range, urban warfare? Probably with a hefty price tag too

Oh yes former RUC officers got Irish passports under the Good Friday Agreement and went showing Americans how to conduct an interview under high stress conditions. They were well paid for it and never got into any serious trouble that I heard of.

skooterblue2 · 09-07-2018 02:07PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Then there's the whole thing of people gleefully hoping Brexit turns out to be such a disaster so that the UK will suffer from it and "we" will get a united Ireland from it.

I have no interest in either.. I am on record here as having serious issues with the way the EU has evolved over particularly the last decade and fully support those who are questioning this direction rather than blindly accepting the narrative that it's the only way for Europe, and anything else is just impossible - if the UK actually comes through it and prospers in the next few years it'll be a disaster for the EU as many other countries will start to pull out IMO (and that's also why the massive campaign of discrediting the electorate's decision has been waged. The EU simply cannot afford for Brexit to succeed).

As for Ireland... We have more than enough problems domestically as it is without taking on the significant problems that absorbing Northern Ireland would represent - economically, structurally and of course the very real possibility that it could result in significant security problems. Problems which thankfully have largely been put behind us.

I think people's expression of a desire for a united Ireland is purely superficial without any real thoughts of the consequences it would bring - put bluntly, we can barely run the country we have (housing, health, the economic divides between Dublin and the rest of the country, the political incompetence and corruption and general half-assed approaches to pretty much everything) , are busy pulling more people out of the tax system each year (imagine if people were told they'd need to pay another 150 quid of their monthly wage towards a "unification/solidarity" charge - how many would still be supportive then??), and given the largely bloated and inefficient mess that is our public sector and state services, imagine trying to integrate the systems of the North into that (assuming anyone would actually rather the HSE over the NHS for example).
The best thing that can happen is some sort of border arrangement that reasonably tries to accommodate both sides (if such a thing is even possible on an island with 2 jurisdictions that will be even further apart in some ways), but anything more is just fantasy IMO.

Ok ..... When there is a united Ireland (I estimate in 10 years), How are we going to afford the imaginary state of northern Ireland? Yes they have a £16Bn economy but they recieve £26Bn in subsidies so they cant even break even. The northern industries consist of the NHS, Civil service and the film and tourist industry. Manufacturing is almost no existent. Then you have to pay off the paramilitary fund raising. Who would want to set up industry in that sort of environment?

I have no problem with Northern Ireland being under London. "You broke it you bought it". I like the Landbridge to the UK for shopping. I prefer that we are closer to London than Berlin. Would Northern Ireland be willing to have a HSE style health care and pay the bank bailout? Are Irish youth willing to more military service. Are we willing to up our Justice budget. Northern Ireland lives a fairy tale land where London stumps up for everything ........ Great Idea but no follow through

DONTMATTER · 09-07-2018 03:46PM

the_syco wrote: »

The troubles; give us what we want, or we'll bomb your cities :pac:

That's exactly what the British security forces were doing with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The Irish government were stalling on legislation the British government wanted passed.
A few bombs later and the legislation was passed, no enquiry was made into the bombings and the files were 'lost'.
Victims families have been harrassed when trying to find information about this. The cover up involves people like Garret Fitzgerald and other Fine Gael ministers.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 09-07-2018 04:15PM

I supported the IRA 100%. If the conditions were the same today as they were in the past, I would 100% support them again.

Hopefully there will be no need to return to the past though, and we will have a united Ireland within a relatively short period of time.

archer22 · 09-07-2018 04:57PM

A large proportion of the IRA didn't even support the IRA, it's estimated about 25% of the ordinary members worked for the security forces and about 50% of the leadership.

So I suppose you could say there were a lot of good IRA men

.

skooterblue2 · 09-07-2018 05:10PM

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

I supported the IRA 100%. If the conditions were the same today as they were in the past, I would 100% support them again.

Hopefully there will be no need to return to the past though, and we will have a united Ireland within a relatively short period of time.

I have a widow woman with 8 orphans at the end of the road at the end of her theder for a few bob. I think she might be an informer any chance you can come around and take her for a drive up to beech or rob a country seaside town bank and shoot the manager.

corner of hells · 09-07-2018 05:12PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Oh yes former RUC officers got Irish passports under the Good Friday Agreement and went showing Americans how to conduct an interview under high stress conditions. They were well paid for it and never got into any serious trouble that I heard of.

The GFA had nothing to do with people being able to claim Irish Passports.
Generally anyone born pre 2005 can claim an Irish passport.
Give us a link to ex RUC supporting Americans interviewing people.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2018 05:13PM

Didn't take long for Jean McConville to be exploited once again. :rolleyes:

skooterblue2 · 09-07-2018 05:18PM

corner of hells wrote: »

The GFA had nothing to do with people being able to claim Irish Passports.
Generally anyone born pre 2005 can claim an Irish passport.
Give us a link to ex RUC supporting Americans interviewing people.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/retired-ruc-officers-to-be-offered-a-new-role-in-iraq-9bjdnwqmts9

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3659595.stm

I have it from an ex-RUC officer that they were out there. Now I never asked what they were doing out there nor was it volunteered but "They had need of experienced interviews". I doubt he was writing parking tickets out there.

skooterblue2 · 09-07-2018 05:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Didn't take long for Jean McConville to be exploited once again. :rolleyes:

So there wasnt anyone called Jean McConville? Nope nope wasnt us we know nothing crowd

branie2 · 09-07-2018 05:24PM

Probably in the 1920s, when they were under the command of Michael Collins

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2018 05:25PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

So there wasnt anyone called Jean McConville? Nope nope wasnt us we know nothing crowd

You are using a victim to make a cheap point. It will happen sooner or later on these threads.

There were approx 3000 victims of BOTH sides.

skooterblue2 · 09-07-2018 05:34PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are using a victim to make a cheap point. It will happen sooner or later on these threads.

There were approx 3000 victims of BOTH sides.

Well I didnt make her a victim. I never dragged her out in front of her family. I never abducted her. I never hid her body and used it for negotiation for about 30 years? There is a big difference between an unarmed civilian and an operator (on either side) carrying a bomb or rifle.

Mutant z · 09-07-2018 05:35PM

I dont think anyone who supports an army that went around the world butchering its way through has any moral authority to lecture anyone else Iraq, Libya and Syria anyone remember those i believe attacking sovereign states amounts to a war crime yet there hasnt been a shortage of cheerleaders for those unprovoked war of aggressions bloody hypocrites every single last one of them.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 09-07-2018 05:40PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I have a widow woman with 8 orphans at the end of the road at the end of her theder for a few bob. I think she might be an informer any chance you can come around and take her for a drive up to beech or rob a country seaside town bank and shoot the manager.

Of course there were many very, very sad and regrettable deaths in the north WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THE POLITICAL SITUATION HAD BEEN DIFFERENT.

If the IRA hadn't taken the war to the British, do you really think the situation would have changed? Discrimination had been a reality in the northern state for hundreds of thousands of people for over 50 years before the IRA re-organised in the late 60s. It took another 25+ years for the political situation to evolve to the stage when it became no longer necessary to used armed force.

Using an example of one sad incident out of the thousands that occurred is a poor reflection of your understanding as to why many Irish people had no other possible alternative to joining or supporting the IRA, if the shameful way they were treated was ever to change.

James Brown · 09-07-2018 05:48PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Well I didnt make her a victim. I never dragged her out in front of her family. I never abducted her. I never hid her body and used it for negotiation for about 30 years? There is a big difference between an unarmed civilian and an operator (on either side) carrying a bomb or rifle.

So you say. I think the poster doth protest too much. G'wan and make an anti-peace treaty dissident republican a senator to score a few political points would ya...

DONTMATTER · 09-07-2018 05:49PM

archer22 wrote: »

A large proportion of the IRA didn't even support the IRA, it's estimated about 25% of the ordinary members worked for the security forces and about 50% of the leadership.

So I suppose you could say there were a lot of good IRA men .

Who killed the 1000 members of the British security forces then?

James Brown · 09-07-2018 05:50PM

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Who killed the 1000 members of the British security forces then?

immigrants, likely Muslims...of course you won't read about it in the media.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2018 06:03PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Well I didnt make her a victim. I never dragged her out in front of her family. I never abducted her. I never hid her body and used it for negotiation for about 30 years? There is a big difference between an unarmed civilian and an operator (on either side) carrying a bomb or rifle.

Can you extract anymore emotiveness out of her death there?

You just demonstrated wonderfully well why her name keeps coming into these discussions.

Approx 3000 mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons or daughters died in our conflict/war.
Yet let's pick a small few to exploit. ****ing appalling.

skooterblue2 · 09-07-2018 06:21PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you extract anymore emotiveness out of her death there?

You just demonstrated wonderfully well why her name keeps coming into these discussions.

Approx 3000 mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons or daughters died in our conflict/war.
Yet let's pick a small few to exploit. ****ing appalling.

I am sure there are many other similar tales. But Remember Toiresa Ferris down in Kerry and She brought it up when she was running as MEP as much a do about nothing about 10 years back? Wasnt there Paddy Kieltys father as well. I am sure there were innocents on both sides and Guilt on both sides too.

As for me gaining political points? I am Apolitical as I see all parties just trying to get their own men into office to rip off the system taxpayer and citizen through taxation and restrictions with red tape.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2018 06:23PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am sure there are many other similar tales. But Remember Toiresa Ferris down in Kerry and She brought it up when she was running as MEP as much a do about nothing about 10 years back? Wasnt there Paddy Kieltys father as well. I am sure there were innocents on both sides and Guilt on both sides too.

As for me gaining political points? I am Apolitical as I see all parties just trying to get their own men into office to rip off the system taxpayer and citizen through taxation and restrictions with red tape.

You used a victim to score a cheap point and then compounded that by claiming that you are apolitical. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Anyone willing to admit that they supported the IRA at any point?

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