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God created Elon Musk to be a supervillain but forgot to flip the last switch.

2456711

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    cournioni wrote: »
    NIMBYism is not an option here. You are just pushing problems elsewhere, and not sustainable either. Renewable energy has its costs as well.

    It's quite ironic that you should accuse another poster of NIMBYism, after claiming that your own main objection to renewables is that you don't want to look at the infrastructure creating it...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    cournioni wrote: »
    A government looking for any excuse to increase taxes? Well I never... :rolleyes:

    You are aware that you pay far LESS tax on an EV compared to an ICE, do you?


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    First off, What's the alternative?

    Secondly, I don't believe the landscape will be ruined. There's a hundred policies the govt could bring in to increase microgeneration and take a huge strain off large scale facilities.
    Thirdly, there's plenty of wave and tidal generation that you'd never see and plenty of remove areas on the west and northwest which are perfect for hydro.
    Hybrid vehicles.

    I do believe it will ruin the landscape. It has already done so in numerous locations throughout Ireland.

    Tidal energy also has its costs to sea wildlife... but that’s okay once you can’t see it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I like Musk I have to say. I admire his energy and his audacity, to the degree of how does have that level of brass neck going on.

    I'd agree with others when they say his businesses are a bit of a joke. And one mostly on the American taxpayer and investors. I have a lot of time for Space-X as it is working as promised most of the time and in an area that's bloody hard to get to work at all. Spaceflight isn't for the weak.

    His car company? Total white elephant in my humble. He most certainly has raised the profile of leccy cars and that will be his rightful legacy, but I would question the intelligence of anyone investing in his car company. His truck is a complete nonstarter and simply can't work. His cars are good, if expensive but he hasn't a snowball's hope in hell of meeting production figures he needs to meet. TBH I'm surprised he hasn't sold out or gone into partnership with one of the existing car companies, whose production capacities make his look like a bloke assembling a kit car in his garage. Ford produce more cars in a single month than Tesla has, ever.

    Of his other ideas. None of them are his. The idea of the "hyper loop" was around in the 19th century. Most of his other schemes are just as nebulous. His battery production plant is where he seems to be putting his future in. Figuring that making the cars is one thing, but making the fuel is the more sustainable and profitable way to go.

    His fans can be batshit crazy though. Slightly criticise him on say youtube and they will show up in swarms like quasi-religious nutters who just have to believe.

    As for leccy cars? They have a lot of potential but in only one area. Their "fuel" has the potential to be fully "green". Their production environmental hit is higher than fossil fuelled cars. Well they have another potential major advantage; the electric motor that propels them can potentially last for many decades(though this is offset by the fact their batteries won't). And we're back to the elephant in the room, the consumer production cycle. If that remains at the average five years per car model and scrapped at ten, then one of the biggest impacts on the environment, building the cars in the first place, won't change. If anything it could get worse.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    cournioni wrote: »
    Hybrid vehicles.

    I do believe it will ruin the landscape. It has already done so in numerous locations throughout Ireland.

    Tidal energy also has its costs to sea wildlife... but that’s okay once you can’t see it.
    Well there is nuclear, but that's a major no no for most policy makers and "green" types. If we ever truly crack fusion then these problems go away and wind farms will go the way of windmills from the past.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Shenshen wrote: »
    You are aware that you pay far LESS tax on an EV compared to an ICE, do you?
    No kidding, that’s what happened when they tried to phase out petrol for diesel, then diesel for hybrid now EV... Nice little incremental increases each time. EV, once the norm would see similar taxes once they realize the environmental impact that they have (batteries, energy consumption etc.).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    cournioni wrote: »
    Hybrid vehicles.

    I do believe it will ruin the landscape. It has already done so in numerous locations throughout Ireland.

    Tidal energy also has its costs to sea wildlife... but that’s okay once you can’t see it.
    And petrol and Diesel are fine as the devastating environmental impact happens in other countries? And we have climate change. And we have local pollution. And we have insane fuel taxes.
    And what happened when petrol prices go up?
    Hybrids aresnt terribly more efficient than petrol cars in fairness.

    To be fair, you or I don't have a choice on what cars we'll buy. Most countries are banning new petrol and Diesel. That leaves hybrid and EV. Hybrids IMO are the worst of both worlds. All the problems of an ICE, all the problems of an EV.

    Near all manufacturers are looking at EV. Hybrids are only a stopgap measure.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Shenshen wrote: »
    You are aware that you pay far LESS tax on an EV compared to an ICE, do you?
    You are aware that's currently and for obvious reasons; as a carrot to get more on the road for "green" purposes. If you think governments will keep that in play and lose billions worldwide in fuel and motor taxes, or that electricity prices to charge them will stay low, that's pretty naive.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Lone Stone




    give it a listen it's interesting


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    And petrol and Diesel are fine as the devastating environmental impact happens in other countries? And we have climate change. And we have local pollution. And we have insane fuel taxes.
    And what happened when petrol prices go up?
    Hybrids aresnt terribly more efficient than petrol cars in fairness.

    To be fair, you or I don't have a choice on what cars we'll buy. Most countries are banning new petrol and Diesel. That leaves hybrid and EV. Hybrids IMO are the worst of both worlds. All the problems of an ICE, all the problems of an EV.

    Near all manufacturers are looking at EV. Hybrids are only a stopgap measure.

    They’re not ideal, but my point is neither are EV’s. They are a fad. People are being sold the idea that EVs are green by the likes of Musk. It’s good marketing and all of the green painted sheep will follow. I’m just making the point that Hybrid is the best we can hope for with out doing further damage to our landscape.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    cournioni wrote: »
    No kidding, that’s what happened when they tried to phase out petrol for diesel, then diesel for hybrid now EV... Nice little incremental increases each time. EV, once the norm would see similar taxes once they realize the environmental impact that they have (batteries, energy consumption etc.).

    The batteries can, once they're no longer capable of a full charge to propel a car, be used to store energy from solar-voltaic panels for households.
    We'll be getting a package like this installed soon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Wibbs wrote: »
    You are aware that's currently and for obvious reasons; as a carrot to get more on the road for "green" purposes. If you think governments will keep that in play and lose billions worldwide in fuel and motor taxes, or that electricity prices to charge them will stay low, that's pretty naive.

    I am well aware of that.
    I was replying to a poster who claimed the government was happy to charge higher taxes on EV right now, which simply isn't the case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    cournioni wrote: »
    Fully renewable at what cost? Ruining our landscape with more wind farms? No thanks. If everyone was using EV’s we would undoubtedly need more energy to power it ruining our landscape. We already have a growing population which will increase energy consumption further, we don’t need another thing to add to it.

    Wind farms can be offshore.

    Also our natural landscape, including the burren, is mostly man made. Highlands aside and there are huge electricity generators, pylons and wires dotting it.

    Wind farms are far prettier.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    cournioni wrote: »
    They’re not ideal, but my point is neither are EV’s. They are a fad. People are being sold the idea that EVs are green by the likes of Musk. It’s good marketing and all of the green painted sheep will follow. I’m just making the point that Hybrid is the best we can hope for with out doing further damage to our landscape.

    Best based on what?
    You'll still pay extortionate amounts for fuel.
    You'll still pay extortionate amounts for servicing and parts.
    You have all the problems of an ICE and of an EV.
    You still have all same "environmental" impacts.

    Your only argument against EVs is the power generation infrastructure which, lets be honest isn't actually that much.
    There's plenty of spare capacity at the moment to handle a huge uptake in EVs.
    There's plenty of solutions for all the potential problems you've posed.
    Hybrids are not and have never been a solution. Hybrids are only a stepping stone for ICE manufacturers to move to full EV production. All motoring trends are going to full EV, hell, even Rallycross is going full EV.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    This post has been deleted.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    You still have all same "environmental" impacts.
    I'd say more. You have the extra environmental hits of pure battery cars with the hits of petrol cars on top. You're doubling up. If anything hybrids are more polluting than either.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭sexmag


    cournioni wrote: »
    Hybrid vehicles.

    I do believe it will ruin the landscape. It has already done so in numerous locations throughout Ireland.

    Tidal energy also has its costs to sea wildlife... but that’s okay once you can’t see it.

    Are you really arguing that we shouldn't use renewable energy because it might look unsightly for landscapes?

    There will be no landscapes left if we don't


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    I'm indifferent about him to be honest. SpaceX has been a success and he deserves credit for that. I don't think Tesla will be successful even if EVs in general are but wouldn't mind being proven wrong about that.

    His intransigence on the topic of Hyperloop is disappointing. Also very disrespectful and insulting to anyone who tries to suggest that his sci-fi vision is just that and ignores the realities of transit and geometry.

    At least he's trying. He has succeeded in a lot of things but he holds some naive (probably cultural) visions. Also reminds me about people who go on about disruptive technologies. Hey, it's his money I suppose. What do I care? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    SpaceX is fantastic. Really shook up the space market, and showed just how expensive the likes of NASA are. Tesla, eh. I can't warm to the guy when he claims Tesla will show the likes of Toyota how to do lean manufacturing. Toyota, the pioneers of the concept. Toyota, who make 17 vehicles a minute. Sort out your own production and quality control problems before you go after the big boy Elon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,289 ✭✭✭kenmc


    Personally I'd rather see him set up an office here, than the vacuous farcebook, twitter etc. At least he's trying to do something positive for mankind, however seemingly impossible that is. Spacex has transformed the rocket market, with its reusable boosters. Sure, the first few landings didn't go as planned, but fail early and you'll learn fast. Tesla has focused the minds of the mainstream car makers, that if they don't start going electric, they're going to be irrelevant soon.


    His biography is a very good read. Despite all the setbacks encountered, he refuses to concede defeat. Seems like a difficult person to work for, but so apparently was Jobs,Gates etc


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  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I am well aware of that.
    I was replying to a poster who claimed the government was happy to charge higher taxes on EV right now, which simply isn't the case.
    Except I didn’t say that, did I?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well there is nuclear, but that's a major no no for most policy makers and "green" types. If we ever truly crack fusion then these problems go away and wind farms will go the way of windmills from the past.
    Also the price of gas could go up multiple times and it would still be cheaper than existing nuclear. And far more flexible.

    Gas isn't clean. But it's replacing coal which is twice as bad.

    Nuclear builds take ages and many projects are being cancelled and there's a huge carbon footprint investment in mining, materials and constuction up front.

    And gas is saving carbon right now.



    Hyrids are just a fancy way of saying
    "some of the energy used in braking can be recovered"
    That's all. Handy for stop-start, but for long cruises it's dead weight.


    Fully electric isn't much better for fossil fuel well to wheel efficiency because of losses in electrical transmission and chargers, charging and discharging. Charging from green energy is good, but most electricity isn't green.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    And here we have one of the major differences between Irish/British and Americans. You guys think it's a negative mark on him that one of his companies is struggling.

    As someone with a struggling business, the attitude pisses me off. Like what is it? Just shlt on people who try and don't succeed while working 9-5 for people who tried and succeeded?

    What other billionaires are taking the PR risk of building escape capsules for trapped Thai kids? Oh yeah, he's only doing it for spin. What an asshole he is.

    Well said. I do think he is weighted a little too much in the dreamworld and not enough practicality about the way he seems to be going about much of the stuff but boy do I applaud the efforts. If I was betting now I'd probably be on the busto side in the future from what I have read about the issues in Tesla but I really hope I am wrong. Humanity needs more good people who are dreamers with vision and money trying to do things outside the box.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    The thing with Tesla is that hasn't it pretty much always been nearly going out of business?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Stick a 1GF ultracapacitor up his arse and he'll do wonders


    an ordinary 2.7 volt one?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Raging_Ninja


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    The thing with Tesla is that hasn't it pretty much always been nearly going out of business?

    All business are almost going out of business at the start. It's never obvious how successful a company will be when they first form or even for the first decade.

    SpaceX was a pipedream and considered a joke for years but now they are responsible for over half of all launches globally. Netflix was a grade-A farce until House of Cards.

    Here an analysis of Tesla's burn rate and quarterly profits alongside production milestones. It's an interesting read: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/elon-musk-says-dont-worry-about-teslas-burn-rate-he-might-be-right/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭AllGunsBlazing


    I'd say the greater danger is that history will more likely remember him as an Icarus type character than a con-artist.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    All business are almost going out of business at the start. It's never obvious how successful a company will be when they first form or even for the first decade.

    SpaceX was a pipedream and considered a joke for years but now they are responsible for over half of all launches globally. Netflix was a grade-A farce until House of Cards.

    Here an analysis of Tesla's burn rate and quarterly profits alongside production milestones. It's an interesting read: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/elon-musk-says-dont-worry-about-teslas-burn-rate-he-might-be-right/

    That’s an exaggeration. I joined up to Netflix in mid-2012 and I am not an early adopter. It wasn’t a farce then.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Raging_Ninja


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    That’s an exaggeration. I joined up to Netflix in mid-2012 and I am not an early adopter. It wasn’t a farce then.

    Netflix was founded in 1997 and started streaming in 2007.


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