Anyone willing to admit that they supported the IRA at any point?

mick malones mauser · 05-07-2018 11:38PM

Where do I even start with this one.
Yes is the simple answer......but of course there is a but
Looking back now, so much needless suffering. Horrible period. No group comes out with any moral high ground.
I include in that, all paramilitary groups, the british government and security forces and the irish government.
But yes at one point I would have regarded myself as an Ira supporter. That probably ended with The Abercorn but didnt completely fizzle out until La Mon.
Intolerance is a dreadful thing. Read as much as you can and try and see the other persons point of view. Two legs bad four legs good is not a good philosphy

corner of hells · 05-07-2018 11:57PM

con___manx1 wrote: »

Pity they didnt blow Thatcher to bits. The ira were pretty good terrorists compared to those muslim ones. They got a bomb into the same building as one of the most important political figures in the world. Id like to see issis try beat that. I didnt support the murder of innocent people but attacks on the crown forces were fair game in my opinion and thatcher was a real biggoted bitch.
In the end the ira got a good deal for there efforts in the good friday agreeement.

How do you grade terrorists ?

Paddy , you got yer bomb into the hotel but you didn't kill the target .B - , good effort.

Abdel , you managed to blow yourself apart , so an A and as a bonus here's 70 or so virgins.

FrancieBrady · 06-07-2018 12:04AM

corner of hells wrote: »

How do you grade terrorists ?

Paddy , you got yer bomb into the hotel but you didn't kill the target .B - , good effort.

Abdel , you managed to blow yourself apart , so an A and as a bonus here's 70 or so virgins.

You forgot:

'General Biggles, you dropped bombs that killed 75 civilians. Collateral damage you say...righty ho! - B+'

realdanbreen · 06-07-2018 09:10AM

archer22 wrote: »

Some years ago Northern Ireland came up in a discussion I was having with a Russian ex soldier..his view was that the British restraint in Northern Ireland was ridiculous and only prolonged the conflict.
He maintained that the way to end the conflict quickly was to publicly execute 20 members of Sinn Fein and the IRA in public in the square of every town where a soldier had been killed.

As I said in an earlier post...the IRA were fortunate in who they were having a war with!!.

During your discussion with the Russian ex soldier did the topic of British atrocities throughout the lands she had invaded/colonised come up?
How about the Amritsar massacre in India when the 'restrained' british army blocked protesters into a walled garden and kept firing until they ran out of ammunition killing hundreds. Or maybe move onto Africa where it's estimated up to 100,000 Kenyans were killed, many of whom had been held in concentration camps where they were systematically tortured. Not to mention the millions, yes millions, who were deliberately starved in famines in countries under the control of the empire. IN 1943 up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Winston Churchill diverted food sent as famine relief to British soldiers. This is the much heralded Churchill who has various monuments to him erected in Britain who famously said, ' I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits'

DeusVolt · 06-07-2018 07:58PM

Yes and I still do.

06-07-2018 09:17PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

...and this country can actually only grow up when we accept this fact and are comfortable with it instead of all the PC bull**** that you see now regarding our “relationship” with Britain.

We’re like the battered wife always seeking the love of the abusive husband.

Bingo. A million times. And little sums up that mentality better than the following:

"The Famine is not just an Irish event, it was just as much a British event, a shared experience."
- Avril Doyle, Fine Gael TD for Wexford and Chairperson of the Famine Commemoration Committee of John Bruton's government, 1996 (Source)

Creol1 · 06-07-2018 09:22PM

Eh, does the Official IRA count?

06-07-2018 09:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bingo. A million times. And little sums up that mentality better than the following:

"The Famine is not just an Irish event, it was just as much a British event, a shared experience."
- Avril Doyle, Fine Gael TD for Wexford and Chairperson of the Famine Commemoration Committee of John Bruton's government, 1996 (Source)

How many people emigrated to Scotland, Wales and England during the famine?

Where are their descendants now?

MikeyTaylor · 06-07-2018 09:33PM

Aegir wrote: »

How many people emigrated to Scotland, Wales and England during the famine?

Where are their descendants now?

I have English and Scottish blood, but I'm not sure if my relatives from there emigrated before the famine or afterwards.

Sheeps · 06-07-2018 10:27PM

People who support the IRA are pedophile enablers.

FrancieBrady · 06-07-2018 10:38PM

Sheeps wrote: »

People who support the IRA are pedophile enablers.

Like catholics and protestants?:rolleyes:

skooterblue2 · 06-07-2018 11:23PM

I think the British were ingenious. They took two two unmanageable groups (Scots and Northern Gaels) they couldnt control and set one up as a minority with support. Then when they need highly trained soldiers they are there on tap (Royal Irish Regiment and Scots guards), plus during the Cold War it was a great training ground for soldiers. Guaranteed contact and containing a hostile population exercise every year.

Think of Northern Ireland as a massive military/psychology dystopian test tube experiment. What happened if a significant (5%) amount of the population became aggressive to the establishment? How would the both the Civil and Military power deal with it?

Amazing how this experiment has played out.

FrancieBrady · 06-07-2018 11:26PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I think the British were ingenious. They took two two unmanageable groups (Scots and Northern Gaels) they couldnt control and set one up as a minority with support. Then when they need highly trained soldiers they are there on tap (Royal Irish Regiment and Scots guards), plus during the Cold War it was a great training ground for soldiers. Guaranteed contact and containing a hostile population exercise every year.

Think of Northern Ireland as a massive military/psychology dystopian test tube experiment. What happened if a significant (5%) amount of the population became aggressive to the establishment? How would the both the Civil and Military power deal with it?

Amazing how this experiment has played out.

Yep. the test tube babies (DUP) are now bringing the whole show down.

Zebra3 · 06-07-2018 11:29PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bingo. A million times. And little sums up that mentality better than the following:

"The Famine is not just an Irish event, it was just as much a British event, a shared experience."
- Avril Doyle, Fine Gael TD for Wexford and Chairperson of the Famine Commemoration Committee of John Bruton's government, 1996 (Source)

Could you imagine a Polish MP claiming the German or Soviet occupation of their nation was a “shared experience”?

maccored · 07-07-2018 12:33AM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I think the British were ingenious. They took two two unmanageable groups (Scots and Northern Gaels) they couldnt control and set one up as a minority with support. Then when they need highly trained soldiers they are there on tap (Royal Irish Regiment and Scots guards), plus during the Cold War it was a great training ground for soldiers. Guaranteed contact and containing a hostile population exercise every year.

Think of Northern Ireland as a massive military/psychology dystopian test tube experiment. What happened if a significant (5%) amount of the population became aggressive to the establishment? How would the both the Civil and Military power deal with it?

Amazing how this experiment has played out.

was it the iraq war that the brits where showing the americans how to engage in close range, urban warfare? Probably with a hefty price tag too

corner of hells · 07-07-2018 07:11AM

maccored wrote: »

was it the iraq war that the brits where showing the americans how to engage in close range, urban warfare? Probably with a hefty price tag too

That worked out handy for everyone , Brits got to show the American the story , made a few bob unless you were Iraqi of course.

Which war the first or the second ?

mosesposeses · 07-07-2018 08:54AM

There is no IRA now. Those claiming to be the IRA now are just angry teenagers looking for a vehicle for their identity and energy.

Creol1 · 07-07-2018 05:06PM

Pedro K wrote: »

Catholics were routinely discriminated against. Their marches were ignored, and in one high profile case, fired upon.

I acknowledge that the IRA did some absolutely, unforgivabley, attrocious things. I also acknowledge that life isn't always black and white, and you can only kick a populace for so long before sections of it kick back.

I don't see how this supports what you said in your original post.

Creol1 · 07-07-2018 05:10PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

I never did.
But I get why people in the North did. I worked with someone whose father was imprisoned for a total of 11 years and never charged with anything. Army breaking in the door at night and taking your father away.
Why? Because a relative was in the IRA.
If I grew up in those circumstances, I fear I would have supported the IRA.

The guy I know got out of the North and has lived in the South since adulthood.

Do you have any further details or links about this alleged case of 11-year long internment?

I have never heard of it.

end of the road · 07-07-2018 05:27PM

Creol1 wrote: »

Do you have any further details or links about this alleged case of 11-year long internment?

I have never heard of it.

i'm thinking that he means the person was imprisoned multiple times without trial, and the periods of imprisonment added up to a total of 11 years.

AudreyHepburn · 07-07-2018 05:41PM

While their aims are understandable I will never support any group that thinks maiming and killing innocent people to achieve their goals is acceptable and would be very wary of anyone who did or does support such actions.

The IRA are terrorists and criminals as far as I’m concerned.

Creol1 · 07-07-2018 05:48PM

con___manx1 wrote: »

Pity they didnt blow Thatcher to bits. The ira were pretty good terrorists compared to those muslim ones. They got a bomb into the same building as one of the most important political figures in the world. Id like to see issis try beat that. I didnt support the murder of innocent people but attacks on the crown forces were fair game in my opinion and thatcher was a real biggoted bitch.
In the end the ira got a good deal for there efforts in the good friday agreeement.

The one (and only) area I agree with Dissident Republicans is that the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement was capitulation by the IRA. When the Troubles began, you had the Irish Constitution laying territorial claim to Northern Ireland as part of a United Ireland, SF/IRA rejected the "principle of consent" as a "unionist veto" and the Sunningdale Agreement provided what many saw as a roadmap to a United Ireland through creating a Council of Ireland.

The Belfast Agreement saw the Irish State relinquish its claim over Northern Ireland and the principle of consent was accepted by SF and enshrined in the Irish constitution, effectively making a United Ireland impossible except in the very distant future.

A before/after comparison shows just how much of a "good deal for their efforts" they got. The reality is the IRA campaign had resulted in a stalemate and with the organisation so heavily infiltrated by British informants that it operated in permanent paranoia, they decided they had to throw in the towel.

Any objective observer could see that the GFA was surrender dressed up as an agreement, but the strenuous mantra of hardline unionists to the contrary ironically helped legitimise the GFA in the eyes of SF/IRA supporters.

FrancieBrady · 07-07-2018 05:58PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While their aims are understandable I will never support any group that thinks maiming and killing innocent people to achieve their goals is acceptable and would be very wary of anyone who did or does support such actions.

The IRA are terrorists and criminals as far as I’m concerned.

Can you 'understand' that there are those who see an army that killed many civillians all over the world as well as here as 'terrorists'?

It is a useless word really.

end of the road · 07-07-2018 06:08PM

Creol1 wrote: »

The one (and only) area I agree with Dissident Republicans is that the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement was capitulation by the IRA. When the Troubles began, you had the Irish Constitution laying territorial claim to Northern Ireland as part of a United Ireland, SF/IRA rejected the "principle of consent" as a "unionist veto" and the Sunningdale Agreement provided what many saw as a roadmap to a United Ireland through creating a Council of Ireland.

The Belfast Agreement saw the Irish State relinquish its claim over Northern Ireland and the principle of consent was accepted by SF and enshrined in the Irish constitution, effectively making a United Ireland impossible except in the very distant future.

A before/after comparison shows just how much of a "good deal for their efforts" they got. The reality is the IRA campaign had resulted in a stalemate and with the organisation so heavily infiltrated by British informants that it operated in permanent paranoia, they decided they had to throw in the towel.

Any objective observer could see that the GFA was surrender dressed up as an agreement, but the strenuous mantra of hardline unionists to the contrary ironically helped legitimise the GFA in the eyes of SF/IRA supporters.

the GFA was not surrender. nobody surrendered and nobody was ever going to "win" by military means.
the IRA always had informants, anyone thinking otherwise is naive. however, the face saving exercis of claiming that it was "so heavily infiltrated by British informants that it operated in permanent paranoia, that they "decideed they had to throw in the towel" doesn't look to be something that ultimately stands up.
the reality is they would and could have kept going had the GFA not been an exceptible deal, and they already had their mechanism to deal with informants.
the Sunningdale Agreement worked in britain's favour only, whereas the GFA worked in favour of northern ireland and it's people, hence why it has the legitimacy it does compared to Sunningdale.

archer22 · 07-07-2018 06:58PM

Well they certainly know how to show respect to the innocent people they murdered :rolleyes: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-barry-mcelduffs-kingsmill-bread-joke-video-36469004.html

Creol1 · 07-07-2018 08:16PM

end of the road wrote: »

they already had their mechanism to deal with informants.

Yes, to kill them. The problem with this was that the man who was for some time IRA killer-in-chief of informants, Freddie Scappaticci, was, as it later turned out, an informant himself.

FrancieBrady · 07-07-2018 08:51PM

Creol1 wrote: »

Yes, to kill them. The problem with this was that the man who was for some time IRA killer-in-chief of informants, Freddie Scappaticci, was, as it later turned out, an informant himself.

Who didn't manage to stop them carrying out calculated attacks in the heart of Britain which brought the British to the table without demands.

Not for a minute condoning violence from any side, but that is a fact. See: John Major quietly dropping the demand for decommissioning after bombs in Britain.

Odhinn · 07-07-2018 11:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Bingo. A million times. And little sums up that mentality better than the following:

"The Famine is not just an Irish event, it was just as much a British event, a shared experience."
- Avril Doyle, Fine Gael TD for Wexford and Chairperson of the Famine Commemoration Committee of John Bruton's government, 1996 (Source)

Remember that, if the shite Bruton runs for president.

Ken. · 07-07-2018 11:35PM

I'm going to put up a poll. Should be fun.

realitykeeper · 08-07-2018 12:00AM

I think if a kid sees an adult support a particular cause, it seems like permission to do likewise.

Evil is not monopolized by any single group. It is spread throughout all of humanity and it is constantly in a state of flux between populations and places. Those of us who believe in God and Satan are aware of the invisible forces of evil and the need to separate it from what is good.

One thing that is often overlooked about the treaty of 1920 was the oath of allegiance. The first representatives of the Dáil either had allegiance to the crown or more probably, they lied on oath. To lie on oath is to purger oneself. This was not a good basis for the foundation of the state.

Anyone willing to admit that they supported the IRA at any point?

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