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Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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Comments

  • #302
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Banterbus28 wrote:
    Sure you'd likely think it's wrong for someone to protest outside a mosque or synagogue.


    No if there is a reason to protest I see no problem with a protest outside a Mosque/Synagogue. No issue at all. Personally I think all religion is bollix but I'm happy to let them do what this wish once no harm is caused or a belief is used as justification to cause harm.


  • #303
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Banterbus28 wrote:
    Sure you'd likely think it's wrong for someone to protest outside a mosque or synagogue.


    No if there is a reason to protest I see no problem with a protest outside a Mosque/Synagogue. No issue at all. Personally I think all religion is bollix but I'm happy to let them do what this wish once no harm is caused or a belief is used as justification to cause harm.

    Why not live and let live and do other things to fight the worlds injustice?

    Protesting some blokes visit isn't gonna do much. It'll be a fleeting visit.


  • #304
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Banterbus28 wrote:
    Protesting some blokes visit isn't gonna do much. It'll be a fleeting visit.


    I don't require your permission or opinion whether i should protest or not. Thanks.


  • #305
    martyc5674
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,525 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    Why not live and let live and do other things to fight the worlds injustice?

    It’s the very injustices of his org that people are likely to protest... most of the worlds injustices can be linked back to religious groups and the divides they have created.


  • #306
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    RobertKK wrote: »
    People can protest without denying others attending the events.

    Indeed they COULD. Instead of what is a sneaky way.

    So OK you want to protest? And yes that is your "right":

    So be open. Get a ticket, get there early in the very front and stand up and protest in the very face of the Pope. Give out publically and openly


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  • #307
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    It’s the very injustices of his org that people are likely to protest... most if the worlds injustices can be linked back to religious groups and the fivides they have created.

    Hitler?


  • #308
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Graces7 wrote: »
    martyc5674 wrote: »
    It’s the very injustices of his org that people are likely to protest... most if the worlds injustices can be linked back to religious groups and the fivides they have created.

    Hitler?

    Communism killed more people than the Third Reich and any single religious group.


  • #309
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭take everything


    I'd love if the pope turned around and said "Go **** yourselves, Ireland. I'm not coming until ye do something about your annoying ****wit problem. I'm looking at you Madigan."

    Or something like that. He'd go up in my in my estimation.


  • #310
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Hitler?

    A lot (not all, but a lot) of anti-semitism had its roots in "Christ killing feckers" sentiment from Christian groups over the centuries. So you could argue that actually religion was indeed a factor in the holocaust, though obviously not the only one.

    In fact, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the "Jews are interest-charging money grubbers" thing stem from the fact that Christians were religiously forbidden from practicing usury, so it meant that Jews were one of the only demographics who were allowed to go into banking?


  • #311
    Chaos Tourist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭Chaos Tourist


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    Communism killed more people than the Third Reich and any single religious group.

    Maybe -- the British Empire is up there as well, seriously.

    Author Shashi Tharoor claims Britain is responsible for deaths of 35 million Indians.:eek:


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  • #312
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Chaos Tourist wrote: »
    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    Communism killed more people than the Third Reich and any single religious group.

    Maybe -- the British Empire is up there as well, seriously.

    Author Shashi Tharoor claims Britain is responsible for deaths of 35 million Indians.:eek:

    That's still a drop in the pond compared to the communist murder toll, Mao killed sooo many folk. But back on topic.


  • #313
    martyc5674
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,525 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Hitler?

    Ah sure it’s ok then... yere not the worst


  • #314
    Chaos Tourist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭Chaos Tourist


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    That's still a drop in the pond compared to the communist murder toll, Mao killed sooo many folk. But back on topic.

    Yes - but that's just from one country. The overall numbers would be much, much higher going over 150-200 years. Indeed, it could even be greater than Communism.


  • #315
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Chaos Tourist wrote: »
    Yes - but that's just from one country. The overall numbers would be much, much higher going over 150-200 years. Indeed, it could even be greater than Communism.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

    Probably about 100 million.


  • #316
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Zealotry of one form or another - not necessarily religious... The belief that a higher cause supersedes conventional morality. That’s what’s behind the biggest mass killings.

    Getting off the point a bit. The catholic church wrought horrors upon us and they ignore the billions in compensation they owe their victims here. It’s abhorrent that we foot the bill for their leader to come and speak as some sort of moral authority. Absolutely outrageous.


  • #317
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Wombatman wrote: »
    If you can't understand why some people detest, and might want to protest the leader of this malignant cult you are out of touch with reality. Couching it as some sort of irrational prejudice is totally disingenuous.

    I'd be surprised if people didn't protest, considering the amount of deep misery, hurt and pain this organisation has inflicted on some.

    - Vile physical, psychological and sexual child abuse
    - Covering up and knowingly exposing others to dangerous predators
    - Mother and baby prisons
    - Pits full of babies
    - Anti contraception
    - Anti abortion
    - Anti gay rights
    - Basically anti women
    - Anti any kind of proper sex education
    - Anti any progressive social change really
    - Selling babies
    - Destroying evidence and intimidating witnesses
    - Shaming and repressing from the pulpit
    - Dragging feet on reparations
    - Victim blaming

    The desire to protest is perfectly in line with human nature in the face of this organisation's track record.




    As I said. You'll justify your hatred of people and dress it up however you want.


    Basically just reeling off a list of boilerplate stuff that you don't give a shite about except that the they are useful as an excuse for you. Just handy excuses


    Go read a few of Paisley's speeches for inspiration


  • #318
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Taytoland wrote: »
    Martin Luther warned you about the papists and only now are we seeing these responses.




    Are sure look.



    The only reason the Brits are Prods is that one of their divine rulers couldn't get his lad up :pac: . Not some collective sudden epiphany by the masses.



    (no puns intended on the uses of either "epiphany" or "masses". Well maybe a little bit)


  • #319
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    Martin Luther warned you about the papists and only now are we seeing these responses.




    Are sure look.



    The only reason the Brits are Prods is that one of their divine rulers couldn't get his lad up :pac: . Not some collective sudden epiphany by the masses.



    (no puns intended on the uses of either "epiphany" or "masses". Well maybe a little bit)

    Well that's sweepimg generalisation but no the topic of conversation.

    Basically it boils down to Henry VIII liked money.


  • #320
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Mary Thoughtless Yo-yo wrote: »
    Zealotry of one form or another - not necessarily religious... The belief that a higher cause supersedes conventional morality. That’s what’s behind the biggest mass killings.

    Getting off the point a bit. The catholic church wrought horrors upon us and they ignore the billions in compensation they owe their victims here. It’s abhorrent that we foot the bill for their leader to come and speak as some sort of moral authority. Absolutely outrageous.




    A quote from a fella on the "side" of a lot of the intolerant people here. But he digressed onto the subject of morality

    When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident... By breaking one main concept out of Christianity, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands."


  • #321
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    How can you read a list like that and claim it is simply boilerplate issues.

    Have you ever known anyone that was subjected to rape. The devastation that it reeks on their life. Now couple that with it being done to a child, so you have not only the impact but the fact that the child has no ability to deal with it.

    Then take that, and force that child to continue to face the person who raped them, possibly even forcing them into repeated rapes. And the only 'solution' that the CC came up with when faced with evidence was to first try to silence the child, but if the potential damage could not be contained then moving the perpetrator to another parish, with no warning as to the danger they brought with them. In many cases the priest was allowed take an active role dealing with children again.

    So the child struggles through a broken childhood and maybe with the help of friends etc decides to publicise their story in order to get some resolution. The 1st response by the CC is to attack the person (when they know full well they are telling the truth). So to state, the telling the truth should be something a religious person is in favour of.

    How is the CC not anti-women. It implicitly states that women cannot serve as messengers of the lord, ie priests. So straight off the bat you have an organisation that is institutionally misogynistic, completely against the laws of the state but somehow we need to allow it because they believe in something (that something never mentioned women being inferior).

    But it probably just a phase. I think it is very healthy that we invite that type of organisation into our schools to help inform our kids about morals! The fact that you given up any idea of empathy for the sake of your religion, a religion founded on the ideas of a man who preached empathy and caring and loving one another and tearing down temples that didn't live to Gods idea is staggering.


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  • #322
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    Well that's sweepimg generalisation but no the topic of conversation.

    Basically it boils down to Henry VIII liked money.




    Well lets be thankful for their sakes at least that, when he was looking to convert his populace into another religion on his own whims (broken mickey and lust for money), that flying spaghetti monsterism wasn't around



    :pac:


  • #323
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Should we allow a protest? Absolutely!
    Should we protest? If you like!
    Will I protest? Absolutely not!
    Should tickets for one of the Papal performances be acquired then burned to ensure no one gets to use them? Absolutely not!
    Will I go see his performance? Not if he was doing it in the neighbours front garden across the road!


  • #324
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    How can you read a list like that and claim it is simply boilerplate issues.

    Have you ever known anyone that was subjected to rape. The devastation that it reeks on their life. Now couple that with it being done to a child, so you have not only the impact but the fact that the child has no ability to deal with it.

    Then take that, and force that child to continue to face the person who raped them, possibly even forcing them into repeated rapes. And the only 'solution' that the CC came up with when faced with evidence was to first try to silence the child, but if the potential damage could not be contained then moving the perpetrator to another parish, with no warning as to the danger they brought with them. In many cases the priest was allowed take an active role dealing with children again.

    So the child struggles through a broken childhood and maybe with the help of friends etc decides to publicise their story in order to get some resolution. The 1st response by the CC is to attack the person (when they know full well they are telling the truth). So to state, the telling the truth should be something a religious person is in favour of.

    How is the CC not anti-women. It implicitly states that women cannot serve as messengers of the lord, ie priests. So straight off the bat you have an organisation that is institutionally misogynistic, completely against the laws of the state but somehow we need to allow it because they believe in something (that something never mentioned women being inferior).

    But it probably just a phase. I think it is very healthy that we invite that type of organisation into our schools to help inform our kids about morals! The fact that you given up any idea of empathy for the sake of your religion, a religion founded on the ideas of a man who preached empathy and caring and loving one another and tearing down temples that didn't live to Gods idea is staggering.




    You take all the evidence that you have and bring it to your local Garda station. Then if they do not follow up, bring it to higher up. At that stage, the guards are also at fault. As are all the people who knew whatever went on and did nothing.


    If you want to go on and on about things that happened 50 or 100 years ago, change the tune.



    Boilerplate tosh used to give self righteous outrage justification by intolerant lazy bigots


  • #325
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Should we allow a protest? Absolutely!
    Should we protest? If you like!
    Will I protest? Absolutely not!
    Should tickets for one of the Papal performances be acquired then burned to ensure no one gets to use them? Absolutely not!
    Will I go see his performance? Not if he was doing it in the neighbours front garden across the road!

    If there was a nice laser show promised, I would, but only if it was free.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #326
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    How about we just live and let live? If you don’t want anything to do with the Popes’ vist OP that fine. But don’t presume to tell the rest of us how to feel.


  • #327
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    Well that's sweepimg generalisation but no the topic of conversation.

    Basically it boils down to Henry VIII liked money.




    Well lets be thankful for their sakes at least that, when he was looking to convert his populace into another religion on his own whims (broken mickey and lust for money), that flying spaghetti monsterism wasn't around



    :pac:

    Like I said boils down.

    Ot's actually very complex.


  • #328
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    You take all the evidence that you have and bring it to your local Garda station. Then if they do not follow up, bring it to higher up. At that stage, the guards are also at fault. As are all the people who knew whatever went on and did nothing.

    Yeah. loads of people all ready did all of that. It's just a real shame that even after there is clear evidence collected by the Garda that the CC then try to claim that Canon law superceeds Irish law and pull out every trick to avoid the priests getting in trouble. Are they doing this out of a respect for the victim? No, they are protecting the firm, simple as.

    You are of course correct that others share part of the blame, but the problem with selling your organisation as the very fountain of morality is that you class yourself as something special. Thus you really should look to abide to that.
    Donald Trump wrote: »
    If you want to go on and on about things that happened 50 or 100 years ago, change the tune.

    So women can be priests now can they? Must have missed that news. When did that happen?

    can you give a reason why the CC should be exempt from the laws of the land in terms of equality?

    In 2008 the Health Service Executive had required a child safety audit which the Bishops felt unable to co-operate with for legal reasons, and in 2009 they asked the NBSC to perform this role. In its report on 2010–11 (to the end of March 2011) the NBSC complained that it had also been denied the same information, also for legal reasons, and that Church funding for its training programmes in child protection had ended in 2009. The 2010–11 report listed 272 new allegations of abuse, mainly "of a historical nature", up from 197 allegations in its 2009–10 report.

    Hardly 100 years ago!

    Do you really think Jesus would have stood for any of this? That is the man that your religion is supposedly built around. Its not the organisation you should be trying to protect, its the ideals of Jesus


  • #329
    martyc5674
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,525 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    How can you read a list like that and claim it is simply boilerplate issues.

    .

    Well the Catholic Church have been doing it for years


  • #330
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    yeah, let's protest against freedom of expression and freedom of religion. That'll show the rest of the world how modern and toletant we are...

    Seriously, so you are happy to ignore the fact the Catholic church literally raped and pillaged across this county for 2000 years odd?

    Ah sure yea, "I am so cool I will let the leader of this gang come tell us what his vision of a family is etc etc ....."
    "I love freedom of speech so let him come here and spout whatever vile tripe he wants to" - like fook he can. We should all be on the streets protesting his arrival till he tells his gang to stop trying to innfluence our society, pay what he owes and says sorry.


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  • #331
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    As I said. You'll justify your hatred of people and dress it up however you want.


    Basically just reeling off a list of boilerplate stuff that you don't give a shite about except that the they are useful as an excuse for you. Just handy excuses


    Go read a few of Paisley's speeches for inspiration

    I think you've embarrassed yourself enough. Perhaps an early night. Your hysterics aren't getting you anywhere.


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