Brexit discussion thread III

Dymo · 13-06-2018 05:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said over a year ago that ultimately the DUP might be the ones shafted here. Not one care do the Torys for northern Ireland or the DUP.
May knows that the wrath of Irish unionists can only damage Irish unionists. - The wrath of Irish republicans can damage her Brexit though as we can veto any deal. '
Arlene and her crew have to hope that they remain in some sort of power share otherwise under the bus they will go.

But they can still bring down the current government, if that wasn't the case it would have been sorted months ago.

An Ciarraioch · 13-06-2018 06:52PM

Unsurprisingly, Labour's internal market amendment is defeated, 240-322. EEA amendment up next, but the customs union votes promise to be the closest of the evening.

An Ciarraioch · 13-06-2018 07:05PM

EEA rejected, 327-126.

An Ciarraioch · 13-06-2018 07:10PM

75 Labour rebels:

https://mobile.twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1006975701457817600

Lords customs union amendment up next.

An Ciarraioch · 13-06-2018 07:21PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

75 Labour rebels:

https://mobile.twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1006975701457817600

Lords customs union amendment up next.

Rejected 325-298

J Mysterio · 13-06-2018 07:50PM

Hory shet.

Corbyn suffers major Brexit rebellion as five frontbenchers resign

Dozens of backbenchers defy orders to abstain on a Lords amendment to the EU (Withdrawal) Bill

"Jeremy Corbyn has suffered his biggest Brexit rebellion in the Commons as nearly 90 backbenchers defied his orders and five junior frontbenchers resigned from their roles.

It follows the Labour leader’s decision to instruct his MPs to abstain on a Lords amendment to the EU (Withdrawal) Bill that would have kept Britain in the European Economic Area (EEA) after Britain’s withdrawal from the EU."

It's like they are having a family argument over there in Britain, but everyone is watching. It's unseemly and embarassing.

These are the arguments and debates they needed to have pre-Article 50, the absolute numpties.

J Mysterio · 13-06-2018 07:55PM

As previously noted, this really seems to be the win of the last few days.

MPs win bid to enshrine Theresa May's pledge against 'checks and controls' on Irish border after Brexit

Northern Ireland border has proved to be a major stumbling block in Brexit talks amid warnings that infrastructure could lead to a return to violence

Capt'n Midnight · 13-06-2018 08:00PM

Meanwhile

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44462829

Sections of UK industry face extinction unless the UK stays in the EU customs union, the president of the CBI has said.
...
"We have a negotiation within the UK government that's gone on for nearly three years. We still haven't got clarity about the future direction, about where we're heading, what will the future relationship with Europe be, at a level of detail that matters for investment."

An Ciarraioch · 13-06-2018 08:12PM

And even the Charter of Fundamental Rights is dismissed, by a majority of 20.

Nody · 13-06-2018 08:18PM

And Hard Brexit here we come; this was one of the last chances to actually for Labour to make a difference and Corbyn flopped around as badly as May on the topic.

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2018 08:24PM

Dymo wrote: »

But they can still bring down the current government, if that wasn't the case it would have been sorted months ago.

They have one bullet in the barrel. If they are not needed in the next transfer of power they are toast.

briany · 13-06-2018 08:31PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

As previously noted, this really seems to be the win of the last few days.

MPs win bid to enshrine Theresa May's pledge against 'checks and controls' on Irish border after Brexit

Northern Ireland border has proved to be a major stumbling block in Brexit talks amid warnings that infrastructure could lead to a return to violence

Wait, wait, wait....They've defeated amendments on the EEA and CU, but supported May's promise of no checks or controls on the border?

Can anyone frame these three decisions in terms of me going up north for a shopping trip to Newry in 2020?

PeadarCo · 13-06-2018 08:38PM

briany wrote:

Wait, wait, wait....They've defeated amendments on the EEA and CU, but supported May's promise of no checks or controls on the border?

It basically says the UK parliament are still clueless about what avoiding a hard border entails. To avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland at least needs to stay in both the common market and customs Union. I half understand a cabinet minister, but that Parliament as a whole passes motions like this makes me genuinely fearful. I would question would any UK pm be able to get an EU deal parliament in any form if they can pass such contradictory motions.

BonnieSituation · 13-06-2018 08:41PM

It's all too little too late from Labour. Even from the standpoint of MPs rebelling like they did this evening as it will bring exactly no benefit to anyone.

We've had 2 years since the vote and they've done exactly nothing. I know the why and wherefore when it comes to Jezza but you'd think he'd at least try and come up with something that doesn't make him and the party look as useless as they are.

I remember being at Glastonbury last year watching all around me scream "Woah Jeremy Corbyn..." And I realised then that this whole process was gonna be a waste of time for everyone because simply put even the British youth don't seem to get his politics and what it means for their futures.

The cowardice shown by the remainer Tories to trust May yesterday was another disgusting and vile act. Watch as she reneges on that as well.

I've said it before but it's remarkable that the "out of touch" and "unelected" Lords are the ones keeping whatever sanity is left to the forefront of this "process".

On a selfish Irish nationalist note, if this whole process brings reunification nearer and Scottish exit from the UK then I am all for it. Because quite simply they're not gonna do anything positive between now and October and it would be nice to wallow in some smug in the future.

An Ciarraioch · 13-06-2018 08:55PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's all too little too late from Labour. Even from the standpoint of MPs rebelling like they did this evening as it will bring exactly no benefit to anyone.

We've had 2 years since the vote and they've done exactly nothing. I know the why and wherefore when it comes to Jezza but you'd think he'd at least try and come up with something that doesn't make him and the party look as useless as they are.

I remember being at Glastonbury last year watching all around me scream "Woah Jeremy Corbyn..." And I realised then that this whole process was gonna be a waste of time for everyone because simply put even the British youth don't seem to get his politics and what it means for their futures.

The cowardice shown by the remainer Tories to trust May yesterday was another disgusting and vile act. Watch as she reneges on that as well.

I've said it before but it's remarkable that the "out of touch" and "unelected" Lords are the ones keeping whatever sanity is left to the forefront of this "process".

On a selfish Irish nationalist note, if this whole process brings reunification nearer and Scottish exit from the UK then I am all for it. Because quite simply they're not gonna do anything positive between now and October and it would be nice to wallow in some smug in the future.

Except, of course, for the West-East trade barriers, and consequent snarl-ups at Holyhead, even with Celine in service.

Capt'n Midnight · 13-06-2018 09:01PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They have one bullet in the barrel. If they are not needed in the next transfer of power they are toast.

It's a Mexican standoff, in the Mutually Assured Destruction sense.

Once it's triggered the DUP won't have any power. Especially now that Stormont is on hold.

Part of the calculation is that Labour will never get votes from the DUP or SF.
Or now that SF is "under new management" so to speak would they show up for a vote to break the Union ? A move that would help balance the books , remove the DUP voting against Labour, and sort out the Irish problem forever.

The landscape is so different from before Brexit.

There's a Unionist in the Senate these days.

The south now has gay marriage, abortion and rising house prices. NI is now the poor cousin.

FF are making noises about running up North with the SDLP. Would Dev's party stand in Westminster ?

A Fine Gael MEP has indicated he would support Ireland’s two extra seats in the European Parliament going to Northern Ireland after Brexit.

The number of voters that belong to neither tribe is growing. People born abroad. The DUP has little if anything to offer to voters who don't belong to the unionist tradition.

The DUP demographic is shrinking due to age and loss of faith.

Time was the Unionists could take out Ballylumford and cripple the economy but thanks to the all island single market for electricity it's got to a position where even that isn't the nuclear option it once was.
http://www.sem-o.com/Pages/default.aspx

RHI hasn't gone away either. The DUP just isn't winning hearts and minds.

When Stormont comes back will the DUP be able to use the Petition Of Concern beyond the next election ?

It's not end days yet, or even close, it's way too early for a border poll but the writing is on the wall. Things aren't getting better and there's a lot of payback and unfinished business waiting in the wings.

An analagy would be the Catholic Church. Numbers are falling, there's been scandals. But half a million people will show up in the Phoenix Park on August 28th.

Rjd2 · 13-06-2018 10:17PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

And Chuka Umunna, on a similar theme:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1006900129427648514

Wasting his time in that party. He gets massacred regularly by the Corbyn disciples for pretty much suggesting a soft brexit which would be to the liking of the majority of Labour supporters.

I am doubtful there will ever be a big third party, but if there was, he should definitely have a prominent role in it.

BonnieSituation · 14-06-2018 12:14AM

Rjd2 wrote: »

Wasting his time in that party. He gets massacred regularly by the Corbyn disciples for pretty much suggesting a soft brexit which would be to the liking of the majority of Labour supporters.

I am doubtful there will ever be a big third party, but if there was, he should definitely have a prominent role in it.

FPTP sees to that.

Peregrinus · 14-06-2018 01:37AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Would Dev's party stand in Westminster ?

Trivial fact of the week. Eamon de Valera was a member of the Westminster Parliament (for East Clare) from 1917 to 1922. Of course, he didn't take his seat.

Less well-known is the fact that he was a member of the Parliament of Northern Ireland from 1921 to 1929 (for County Down) and from 1933 to 1938 (for South Down). Again, he didn't take his seat. As MP for South Down, his party label was Fianna Fáil, so FF has at least some record of contesting elections in NI.

Harika · 14-06-2018 08:15AM

Well well, so Mr Rees-Mogg's company is warning of Brexit's uncertainty.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-investment-vehicle-linked-to-hardline-brexiteer-rees-mogg-warns-of-brexit-risks-1.3529280

“During, and possibly after, this period there is likely to be considerable uncertainty as to the position of the UK and the arrangements which will apply to its relationships with the EU,” the fund says.

“As [SCM is] based in the UK and a fund’s investments may be located in the UK or the EU, a fund may as a result be affected by the events described above.”

The Icav specifically warns that a hard Brexit “may increase costs or make it more difficult for the Icav to pursue its objectives”.

https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1003256133010763776

Hello Mr. Pinocchio

J Mysterio · 14-06-2018 08:26AM

How can that rag get away with such blatant lies?

Seth Brundle · 14-06-2018 08:40AM

J Mysterio wrote: »

How can that rag get away with such blatant lies?

Surprising given how intelligent their readers are

14-06-2018 12:23PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

How can that rag get away with such blatant lies?

The Sun

There's an extra comma in there at the bottom.

Professor Moriarty · 14-06-2018 12:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There's an extra comma in there at the bottom.

Where?

Infini · 14-06-2018 12:54PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

How can that rag get away with such blatant lies?

Seriously that's just pandering to their supporters ego and nothing else. They want to believe all is well right until they crash into a wall.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 14-06-2018 01:04PM

Infini wrote: »

Seriously that's just pandering to their supporters ego and nothing else. They want to believe all is well right until they crash into a wall.

Thats not suprising when you bear in mind the fact that their whole existence and premise is entirely based on sensationalism and downright lies.:rolleyes:

demfad · 14-06-2018 01:10PM

Interesting article.
EU Contingency for private sector hard Brexit:

Phase 1: advise private sector to take it into account.
Phase 2: Change the actual EU laws and regulations to protect these companies.

https://twitter.com/FT/status/1007156129594593280

Dymo · 14-06-2018 01:14PM

Infini wrote: »

Seriously that's just pandering to their supporters ego and nothing else. They want to believe all is well right until they crash into a wall.

I hope they keep believe that, at this stage I'm tired of looking at Brexiters talking as if everything is perfect.

I wish it was March 29th today and then we can really say what's happening.

Zubeneschamali · 14-06-2018 01:23PM

demfad wrote: »

Interesting article.
EU Contingency for private sector hard Brexit:

Phase 1: advise private sector to take it into account.
Phase 2: Change the actual EU laws and regulations to protect these companies.

To protect these companies from the negative effects of Brexit. In this case, for EU manufacturers whose type approval came via the UK, the UK leaves, allow them to transfer it to an approval agency in the EU.

Why on earth would the EU not do that? Did they think the EU would let Skodas type approval lapse and force them to stop selling cars in the EU because the UK leaves?

The fact that the FT think this is even faintly newsworthy is laughable.

trellheim · 14-06-2018 01:25PM

Rolls Royce ( the jet engine lot ) announce 4600 job losses ( see https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/what-happened-derby-mps-challenged-1675703) .

Brexit discussion thread III

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