Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

yabadabado · 14-06-2018 12:22AM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Tis a pity the two clubs refuse to do business, Klopp would get a tune out of him no question and say 40 m for a player with one year left who wants to go seems about right these days.

Martial probably wants to win a few trophies

nullzero · 14-06-2018 12:35AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its almost a trope at this stage, it really is the most common thing you will her regarding whether to keep Martial or not.

He could be a monster somewhere else.
He could go somewhere else and tear the league up.
He could come back to haunt us.
He could go on to be a great player.

Its like some sort of FOMO and I have to say, I think its a terrible reason to keep sticking with underperforming players and a big part of the reason we have so many of them.

If we are going to keep somebody it should be because he is doing well for us, because he is contributing, because he has earned his place. Not because we are scared of looking foolish should he score 30 goals in the French league.

The rest of my post basically said what you said.

Crimson King · 14-06-2018 07:44AM

Surprised nobody has suggested a swap deal (plus cash) for Cavani, considering the rumored need for a backup big striker. At 31 he can still do a job for us imo.

I see the Indo are suggesting a swap deal with Spurs for Toby. I suppose the article writes itself seeing the Sanchez-Mikhi swap deal in January.

Adamocovic · 14-06-2018 07:55AM

I have made it quite clear I'd rather we kept Martial.

Saying you would be worried about selling him to a rival I wouldn't classify as a fear of missing out on his potential. The main argument is that he hasn't performed to expectations, but that is something that could be said for not only most of our signings since Fergie has left but for the players who were here during his final season.

Very few have impressed with consistent performances, but I would say Martial has at least shown signs of his abilities, and enough in my eyes to warrant keeping. I know people who want him out the door will disregard some stats saying they don't reflect his performances but the thing is even while he has not lived up to peoples expectations of him, and has been a sub for quite a few games since joining us he has made more of an impact than many. Even looking at our top three assist providers and goalscorers since he's arrived.

2017/2018
Goals: Lukaku, Martial, Lingard
Assists: Pogba, Lukaku, Martial*

2016/2017
Goals: Zlatan, Mata, Pogba, (Martial 6th)
Assists: Martial, Herrera, Zlatan

2015/2016
Goals: Martial, Rooney, Mata
Assists: Rooney, Mata, Martial

*tied with others

While people may argue about his overall performances the above proves, in my eyes, his contributions to the team. Since he has arrived here he has ended the PL as one of our Top 3 assist providers every year, and has ended as one of our Top 3 scorers two out of three season, and like the song goes two out of three ain't bad.

The fact that he hasn't shown it consistently enough isn't worrying me yet. That's a problem across the board with our team.

Unless Martial is sold or used as a trade deal to bring in someone who is going to have a big contribution to the team I don't see why so many people seem to be pushing for this. At 22 he in my eyes has already shown he can be an important figure for our attack.

Selling Martial only weakens our attack, so I would be expecting someone to be brought in who can finish the season as one of our top contributors for goals and assists.

Anyway, it seems his agent has stated he wants to leave, and I don't blame him. He's lost his place to Sanchez, regardless of how Sanchez plays really, and just missed out on a WC. Had mentioned earlier after the announcement, missing out on a WC would have been a big moment for him to re-consider his career and ponder looking elsewhere for more regular football.

S.M.B. · 14-06-2018 08:23AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Unless Martial is sold or used as a trade deal to bring in someone who is going to have a big contribution to the team I don't see why so many people seem to be pushing for this. At 22 he in my eyes has already shown he can be an important figure for our attack.

Selling Martial only weakens our attack, so I would be expecting someone to be brought in who can finish the season as one of our top contributors for goals and assists.

Anyway, it seems his agent has stated he wants to leave, and I don't blame him. He's lost his place to Sanchez, regardless of how Sanchez plays really, and just missed out on a WC. Had mentioned earlier after the announcement, missing out on a WC would have been a big moment for him to re-consider his career and ponder looking elsewhere for more regular football.

Is anyone actually pushing for this? Nobody is surprised that he is looking at his options and if he is not interested in signing a new contract then we should be looking at moving him on ASAP. I would like to know the terms that he's been offered as his agent is claiming that it's clear from negotiations that he's not that wanted at the club. He also could be looking to seriously improve his wages which may be contributing to his frustration.

yabadabado · 14-06-2018 08:27AM

Crimson King wrote: »

Surprised nobody has suggested a swap deal (plus cash) for Cavani, considering the rumored need for a backup big striker. At 31 he can still do a job for us imo.

I see the Indo are suggesting a swap deal with Spurs for Toby. I suppose the article writes itself seeing the Sanchez-Mikhi swap deal in January.

Cavani aint going to be a back up option for anyone ,he is still lethal .He would more than do a job.
United need a back up option up front but someone around 25m and who will be satisfied to be a squad player.

Adamocovic · 14-06-2018 08:29AM

S.M.B. wrote: »

Is anyone actually pushing for this? Nobody is surprised that he is looking at his options and if he is not interested in signing a new contract then we should be looking at moving him on ASAP. I would like to know the terms that he's been offered as his agent is claiming that it's clear from negotiations that he's not that wanted at the club. He also could be looking to seriously improve his wages which may be contributing to his frustration.

Martial has had plenty of critics during his time here. Before it was announced that he wanted to leave many wanted to sell him. It was a debate me and a few others were involved in during the season.

When Sanchez was brought in it got more legs. It divided opinions and many wanted to cash in on Martial while we still can. Similarly there are a lot who want us to sell Pogba due to him failing expectations.

On Martial I still reckon this isn't purely money driven. His wages I posted about before are lower than the majority of the teams (65k I think, put into context Blind is on 75k) so it surely is an incentive, but I think it is largely a reaction to him falling out of favour and losing a chance to play in the world cup.

When he wasn't announced in the squad I commentated about this, saying he definitely now will consider his future. With Sanchez his playing time is limited, but then add in Rashford who it cuts into it even more. Sitting at home watching the World Cup is not where he wants to be, but unless he gets regular football he wont be going to any tournament for his country.

So while money always plays a part, the timing of this would suggest that finding a place for regular football and his international future is a major factor in his decision.

Trigger · 14-06-2018 08:36AM

It wasn’t that many wanted to sell him, it was that they(me included) wouldbe open to it it if the club moved him on to help with the balance of the frontline. Now if he is sold and no RW is bought, the same people will be against that.

Now I’ve no problem with him wanting to leave, we have sold players that have contributed a hell of a lot more than Martial has, my problem is with how he has gone about it. Having his agent come out say that in the media will have prospective buyers rubbing their hands with glee at being able to use that in negotiations, which in turn could have a negative effect on his fee.

As I’ve said, this seems to be a continuous problem when it comes to Martial, if he’s not happy with something, his agent runs to the media and tells all when really it should be kept in house.

jayo26 · 14-06-2018 09:03AM

Mitch Connor · 14-06-2018 09:05AM

18/18 please, based on that list.

Trigger · 14-06-2018 09:06AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

18/18 please, based on that list.

Yep I’d be confident of beating Spurs at OT and they usually have a sluggish start before they kick into gear, are they starting with 4 away games does anyone know?

jayo26 · 14-06-2018 09:07AM

astradave wrote: »

Yep I’d be confident of beating Spurs at OT and they usually have a sluggish start before they kick into gear, are they starting with 4 away games does anyone know?

No they have home game second game if season. That's the game they requested to be changed yesterday.

Mitch Connor · 14-06-2018 09:10AM

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/premier-league-fixtures-for-2018-19-season-announced

Only taken a quick look - the run in will be subject to change based on CL fixtures but looks a good one. If we get to March in contention for the title then the run in is as decent as you could like.

Sat 2 Mar Southampton H
Sat 9 Mar Arsenal A
Sat 16 Mar Manchester City H
Sat 30 Mar Watford H
Sat 6 Apr Wolverhampton Wanderers A
Sat 13 Apr West Ham United H
Sat 20 Apr Everton A
Sat 27 Apr Chelsea H
Sat 4 May Huddersfield Town A
Sat 12 May Cardiff City H

Playing 3 of the big teams - two of them at home and of the rest only Everton away should be much of a worry. That Arsenal/City week could be a big pointer at the end of the season.

Trigger · 14-06-2018 09:11AM

jayo26 wrote: »

No they have home game second game if season. That's the game they requested to be changed yesterday.

Ah so they will have to work it out with whoever they are playing, or maybe the FA will let them bypass the rules and play at Wembley

Kerrydude1981 · 14-06-2018 09:14AM

Jesus that Rob fella on SSN is really super excited about the release of the PL fixtures

jayo26 · 14-06-2018 09:15AM

astradave wrote: »

Ah so they will have to work it out with whoever they are playing, or maybe the FA will let them bypass the rules and play at Wembley

They just confirmed it will be at wembley their first home game at WHL will be Liverpool.

jayo26 · 14-06-2018 09:16AM

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Jesus that Rob fella on SSN is really super excited about the release of the PL fixtures

He generally just always seems to be a jolly old chap.

If I had to work alongside Hayley McQueen and the likes I'd be happy all day too.

Kerrydude1981 · 14-06-2018 09:19AM

jayo26 wrote: »

He generally just always seems to be a jolly old chap.

If I had to work alongside Hayley McQueen and the likes I'd be happy all day too.

Thats true as well,never miss a day at work

jayo26 · 14-06-2018 09:20AM

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Thats true as well,never miss a day at work

Overtime galore sire ha.

Drumpot · 14-06-2018 09:32AM

Headline games:

Opening Game v Leicester Home
Spurs home - August 25th
Chelsea away - Oct 20th
City Away - Nov 10th
arsenal home - Dec 4th
Liverpool away dec 15th
Spurs Away Jan 12th
Liverpool Away 23rd feb
Arsenal home March 9th
City Home March 16th
Chelsea home April 27th

Very favourable draw IMO. Most of the tough away games before Christmas. Only once will we play 2 toughish teams in a row (Arsenal - city march).

Cookiemunster · 14-06-2018 09:33AM

Mixed bag of games after the Champions League games. After CL weeks 1, 2 & 3 at home to Wolves, Newcastle and Everton. After CL weeks 4, 5 & 6 away to City, Southampton and Liverpool.

ElChe32 · 14-06-2018 09:39AM

That's quite the baptism of fire for Emry at Arsenal...City (h) then Chelsea (a).

fatherted1969 · 14-06-2018 09:50AM

Maybe I'm still stuck in Fergie time but I only ever really look at the last 7 or 8 fixtures and I just see Chelsea at home in the last 7. Happy with that, hopefully we'll be there or thereabouts coming into those games

duffman13 · 14-06-2018 10:06AM

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Maybe I'm still stuck in Fergie time but I only ever really look at the last 7 or 8 fixtures and I just see Chelsea at home in the last 7. Happy with that, hopefully we'll be there or thereabouts coming into those games

The good old days alright, used to always look at last 8 games and think we'll be within 3 points of anyone after 30 games, what's the run in like

Fixture list looks fairly well spread for us though so happy enough

Adamocovic · 14-06-2018 10:12AM

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Maybe I'm still stuck in Fergie time but I only ever really look at the last 7 or 8 fixtures and I just see Chelsea at home in the last 7. Happy with that, hopefully we'll be there or thereabouts coming into those games

Could be wrong but funnily enough I don't think Chelsea have beaten us at OT since Fergie's last season.

Edit: Should add I mean in PL

Cantona's Collars · 14-06-2018 10:29AM

Plans already being made for trips to games.

Lord TSC · 14-06-2018 10:43AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Selling Martial only weakens our attack, so I would be expecting someone to be brought in who can finish the season as one of our top contributors for goals and assists.

For the record, as someone who will be happy to see him gone, that cravat is essential.

If we replaced Martial with a right sided player who can actually launch a counter attack and score goals from that side of the field, I believe our attack will be significantly stronger. That's why I'm happy enough with this news; it will force the club to buy another attack minded player, rather than relying on Martial realizing his potential next season.

Having Sanchez, Rashford and Martial on the left, while having Mata and Lingard on the right, was an enormous problem last season. We're overstocked on one side and dramatically under-stocked on the other. If we sell Martial for 60-70m, and can bring in a Bale, then I don't see how anyone could argue that tradeoff. We'll still have two strong players for the left, including a young, hyped prospect.

Martial breaks my heart. Despite the posts about his rankings in years gone by, I find he's useless on the counter, useless defensively....he slows down play, needs the ball played to his feet and insists on running at defenders. He might thrive, obviously, in a team set up to play to that strength but he's not at a team that can do that right now.

I get people want to think long term and what he could be like....but people also are demanding Jose win the title this season coming. So which takes priority? Waiting for Martial to kick on and finally nail down a place, or properly investing in a top level talent who can actually kick us on a step as a team?

Cookiemunster · 14-06-2018 10:52AM

Martial's going nowhere according to Simon Stone.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1007198514546380800

Adamocovic · 14-06-2018 10:53AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

For the record, as someone who will be happy to see him gone, that cravat is essential.

If we replaced Martial with a right sided player who can actually launch a counter attack and score goals from that side of the field, I believe our attack will be significantly stronger. That's why I'm happy enough with this news; it will force the club to buy another attack minded player, rather than relying on Martial realizing his potential next season.

Having Sanchez, Rashford and Martial on the left, while having Mata and Lingard on the right, was an enormous problem last season. We're overstocked on one side and dramatically under-stocked on the other. If we sell Martial for 60-70m, and can bring in a Bale, then I don't see how anyone could argue that tradeoff. We'll still have two strong players for the left, including a young, hyped prospect.

Martial breaks my heart. Despite the posts about his rankings in years gone by, I find he's useless on the counter, useless defensively....he slows down play, needs the ball played to his feet and insists on running at defenders. He might thrive, obviously, in a team set up to play to that strength but he's not at a team that can do that right now.

I get people want to think long term and what he could be like....but people also are demanding Jose win the title this season coming. So which takes priority? Waiting for Martial to kick on and finally nail down a place, or properly investing in a top level talent who can actually kick us on a step as a team?

Fully agree with that assessment. If we get a brilliant RW in I'm happy with it.

Martial has frustrated as he has shown us tasters but nothing consistent, like a lot of players. Still think he's shown enough to merit playing time but imagine if he put in a better more consistent shift.

As disappointing as it is that he will be leaving, I find it understandable and I think we have seen a lot of him. Some great, some poor, too much average. But despite this he has still been a pretty key player in our attacking contributions, which says a lot about our attack.

I was more disappointed with Memphis leaving if I'm being honest. But we will wait and see how it all pans out. If we did sell Martial and got Bale I would be over the moon.

pjohnson · 14-06-2018 10:54AM

My birthday will be interesting. Liverpool at Anfield

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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