Brexit discussion thread III

Kermit.de.frog · 07-06-2018 12:07PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

If DD has not resigned, then neither will anyone else. It is all a bottle of smoke.

He could be going yet...

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1004680659363942400

If the backstop does not include the absurd time limit (which the EU will reject anyway) the Brexiteers will go nuts. If DD does step down odds on others will go too.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-06-2018 12:24PM

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1004683841775308800

Indeed, he's ex SAS, remember

Water John · 07-06-2018 12:33PM

I presume if the 'problem' is not sorted, TM won't fly to G7 meeting. That is a deadline, in itself.
Some forms of words, hopefully by such and such a date etc. Some other fudge.
SAS? he bottled it by lunchtime the first day.

cml387 · 07-06-2018 12:35PM

Could be a decisive moment.
Apparently media were briefed that a plan was in place after cabinet meeting.
Now it seems that there was no agreement.

An Ciarraioch · 07-06-2018 12:39PM

Laura Kuenssberg - DD to put statement out, not resigning, has been clarification in document on timing.

But of course, if there is a date in the document, Leo will immediately reject it.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-06-2018 12:40PM

There is a date on the backstop now apparently.

kunst nugget · 07-06-2018 12:41PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1004683841775308800

Indeed, he's ex SAS, remember

I know the regiment he was in was called the 21 SAS but it's part of the Territorial Army. Isn't that the same as the Free Clothes Association, or Reserves as they are called now, over here?

An Ciarraioch · 07-06-2018 12:41PM

She then confirms the updated document has a date.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-06-2018 12:46PM

This will not be acceptable to the EU. You can't have a "backstop" with a defined time limit...

Hurrache · 07-06-2018 12:50PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is a date on the backstop now apparently.

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

She then confirms the updated document has a date.

You'd have to wonder why they bothered with all the drama if it will likely be rejected anyway?

LeinsterDub · 07-06-2018 12:50PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This will not be acceptable to the EU. You can't have a "backstop" with a defined time limit...

Well may be if it was the year 10,000. (Not much will have changed except they attempt to brexit under water)

EdgeCase · 07-06-2018 12:52PM

Hurrache wrote: »

You'd have to wonder why they bothered with all the drama if it will likely be rejected anyway?

Because they're more concerned about playing to the tabloids and the domestic audience than anything to do with reality?

Kermit.de.frog · 07-06-2018 12:55PM

Varadkar saying a time limit won't be accepted.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1004658943199760384

Zubeneschamali · 07-06-2018 12:57PM

Westminster still arguing amongst themselves, not addressing the EU at all.

An Ciarraioch · 07-06-2018 01:03PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Varadkar saying a time limit won't be accepted.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1004658943199760384

And note that tweet was sent two hours before the latest farce.

Water John · 07-06-2018 01:03PM

So David has demanded, a proposal be sent to Brussells, that they know the EU will reject.
That seems plain enough.

LeinsterDub · 07-06-2018 01:09PM

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1004693969064865792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Fblog%2Flive%2F2018%2Fjun%2F07%2Fformer-brexit-minister-says-mays-backstop-plan-extremely-damaging-for-britain-politics-live

It maybe possible for the EU to agree to this if they've are the one saying if enough has been done when 'expectation' time arrives

Kermit.de.frog · 07-06-2018 01:11PM

Water John wrote: »

So David has demanded, a proposal be sent to Brussells, that they know the EU will reject.
That seems plain enough.

Don't think it's as simple as that. Apparently the doc does not specify an actual date.

Seems like it will be a time limit that is not limited by time.

swampgas · 07-06-2018 01:11PM

It looks like DD wants to play chicken with the Irish government - I imagine he feels that if he plays hardball on the time limit, Ireland might back down, which is (he might imagine) the foot in the door he needs to get a special deal.

Time for Leo and Simon to hold their nerve, I think.

J Mysterio · 07-06-2018 01:14PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1004683841775308800

Indeed, he's ex SAS, remember

Who is that lunatic? So now the PM is 'bullying' her cabinet appointee. Utter madness breaking loose there.

An Ciarraioch · 07-06-2018 01:28PM

And the backstop has been published:

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamfleming/status/1004696585471713280

ArmaniJeanss · 07-06-2018 01:32PM

The final bit.

26. The UK is clear that the temporary customs arrangement, should it be needed, should be time limited, and that it will be only in place until the future customs arrangement can be introduced. The UK is clear that the future customs arrangement needs to deliver on the commitments made in relation to Northern Ireland. The UK expects the future arrangement to be in place by the end of December 2021 at the latest. There are a range of options for how a time limit could be delivered, which the UK will propose and discuss with the EU.

Christy42 · 07-06-2018 01:37PM

So a suggestion of a time limit. There is no time limit on this. There is a we feel like there should be a limit and a we hope that this is the time limit but no actual time limit.

Bit of an absent minded pat on the head to keep Davis happy. I hope the rest of the SAS are made of sterner stuff!

Anthracite · 07-06-2018 01:43PM

I for one am astonished that this latest crisis ended in a meaningless fudge. Astonished, I tell you.

Water John · 07-06-2018 01:48PM

Its a very popular sweet around the UK Cabinet table.

cml387 · 07-06-2018 01:59PM

"Diplomacy is about surviving to the next century
Politics is about surviving until Friday"
Sir Humphrey Appleby

At least it gets the PM off to the G7 while ministers twist on the head of a pin.

J Mysterio · 07-06-2018 02:01PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The final bit.

26. The UK is clear that the temporary customs arrangement, should it be needed, should be time limited, and that it will be only in place until the future customs arrangement can be introduced. The UK is clear that the future customs arrangement needs to deliver on the commitments made in relation to Northern Ireland. The UK expects the future arrangement to be in place by the end of December 2021 at the latest. There are a range of options for how a time limit could be delivered, which the UK will propose and discuss with the EU.

December 2021 - wasn't the cutoff off the transition agreement to be 2020?

Water John · 07-06-2018 02:07PM

Yes, first Transition, then Backstop, if no agreement.
A Backstop, by Definition has no time limit. If it has, it isn't a Backstop, as something comes after it.
That's my understanding of both, legal issues and the English language.

An Ciarraioch · 07-06-2018 02:10PM

Barnier literally gives a diplomatic response:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1004706411874541568

catrionanic · 07-06-2018 02:23PM

I am confused now. Is the UK still trying to propose that the backstop means the whole of the UK staying in the SM and CU until a technological (or other) solution is found? I thought the EU had made it clear that the backstop would only apply to NI, and that come December 2020, GB are out?

Brexit discussion thread III

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