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BT Young Scientist - qCrypt

«1

Comments

  • #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 331 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah somebody showed this to me today. Very little information about how it works, I also can't figure out if it's a concept or functioning code?

    I sigh listening to that article, Dick Ahlstrom stated that splitting the data has never been done before.... Cryptographic splitting is not a new concept.

    Not trying to take away from the guy, just working in IT security it's the same with any security vender stating they have the next big thing. Yeah just show me the evidence.....


  • #3
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Same here ni@ll, not wishing to slate, but I'm curious to see a functioning piece of code or the general concept. I know BT do undertake a fair bit of due diligence, so I doubt its without merit, I'm just surprised his site doesn't even give a high level overview of the concept. There is an additional claim that its safe from quantum computers etc, which is what struck me as a little far out there from a schools science expo.


  • #4
    timmywex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    Some decent discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/5o02u3/discussion_2017_bt_young_scientist_of_the_year/

    Ultimately its completely untested and unproven, bar a few judges who probably know quite little about cryptography. Fair play to him in any case its still an amazing project for someone of that age and has potential surely.


  • #5
    moneymad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭moneymad


    Would some sort of blockchain be a part of it?


  • #6
    mach1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    Has he been hired by the NSA yet?

    All joking aside, a number of years ago a girl won with a crypto project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Flannery . entitled " Cryptography – A new algorithm versus the RSA "

    Just saw at end of Wikipedia entry http://cryptome.info/flannery-cp.htm

    It was proven that her algorithm wasn't able to be broken. I would say also that his qCrypt will be proven insecure also. Rember he is only a kid, and at that age, we all thought knew ever thing.

    As Mythbusters taught even a failure is a valid result


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  • #7
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    I've been an avid interested crypto user and follower for over 10 years...
    I've never seen so much bull**** in one title... :D
    This man is destined to become a used car salesman. :cool:


  • #8
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    mach1982 wrote: »
    .

    As Mythbusters taught even a failure is a valid result

    I tend to disagree here. The guy is getting a lot of media attention and the general public are perhaps being misled. From the reddit discussion above, there isn't even a whitepaper available for this system and he put it together in less than 6 months.

    Its similar to someone saying they won a race in a world record time and claiming some headlines for it, with no independent proof.


  • #9
    mach1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    ironclaw wrote: »
    The guy is getting a lot of media attention and the general public is perhaps being misled.

    I do agree, I did have a look at his Github, and was surprised that, most of his qCrupty was node.js

    You average person hasn't got a clue about encryption. I did do a module about encryption, and it was fun but very maths oriented, and maths isn't my best subject. I think it will turn out that he has used a lot per existing libraries, and maybe did something like combine two systems a bit like like me us JCE in java to write a simply cease cypher as the key for DES or RSA .


  • #10
    jmcc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭jmcc


    I always get wary when happy-clappies in the Irish media and elsewhere describe algorithms/crypto/systems as being unbreakable. The Irish Times hasn't a good reputation on tech reporting.

    When someone thinks that they have an unbreakable system, it generally means that they can't figure out how to break it.

    Regards...jmcc

    Regards…jmcc



  • #11
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,705 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Total spoof and it's not like it's the first time.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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  • #12
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    It will be very interesting to see how it gets on at the European stage. Credit to the kid for his technical ability to even be thinking/programming in this space but as said already there's no credibility to the security claims and I'd say he has as good, if not better, prospects in PR as he does in CS.

    You'd have to question the standard of judging though to fall for the claims. I'd love to know on what grounds they deemed it to be the winner because "Resistant to quantum computing attacks" and "developed in 6 months by a teenager" just doesn't add up whatever way you spin it. Looking at the code (and lack of documentation) on Git doesn't inspire any more confidence in the claims. Did he even reveal what crypto library he was using at the core of the application?


  • #13
    Ziycon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭Ziycon


    I'm only new around here but would be very sceptical about what he's claiming given (no offence to him) but his age and experience.

    Release the code and let it be publicly scrutinised!

    On a side not I think the discussion on Reddit have the wrong GitHub account, clicking through to the website listing on the Github account suggests that the owner is not this Shane Curran.


  • #14
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    Ziycon wrote: »
    I'm only new around here but would be very sceptical about what he's claiming given (no offence to him) but his age and experience.

    Release the code and let it be publicly scrutinised!

    On a side not I think the discussion on Reddit have the wrong GitHub account, clicking through to the website listing on the Github account suggests that the owner is not this Shane Curran.

    The code is there on his github in fairness (though the crypto library is minified which makes it impossible to read easily). What's not there is any documentation to support it or to show how the crypto used is actually secure as he says it is.


  • #15
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    You get marks in bt for display, communication and knowledge of the subject. He could of had an electrical engineer, a blogger and tv repairman as his judges, they don't match projects up with judges in the particular field of the project.


  • #16
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    You get marks in bt for display, communication and knowledge of the subject. He could of had an electrical engineer, a blogger and tv repairman as his judges, they don't match projects up with judges in the particular field of the project.

    This is just plain incorrect. Everyone who exhibits gets 3 judges who are working in related fields (for example John Dunnion from UCD is always sent round to the Computer Science projects). If they like your project you'll get more and more judges sent round to your stand later in the week from all disciplines to challenge your project.


  • #17
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    dalta5billion wrote: »
    This is just plain incorrect. Everyone who exhibits gets 3 judges who are working in related fields (for example John Dunnion from UCD is always sent round to the Computer Science projects). If they like your project you'll get more and more judges sent round to your stand later in the week from all disciplines to challenge your project.


    Wrong you only get 3 judgings for the main award you get extra judges for the special awards e.g Intel award/rsa/analogue. But you only get 3 judges between wed/thurs and they determine 1st-3rd, highly commended, best group, best individual and runners up. They also determine overall winner, just 3 judgings. This Is well known and if you ask any winner who only won overall and no special awards they'll tell you they were only judged three times. As regards experts, they cant have every one judged by three experts in the area of each if the 550 projects, so some projects at best get one expert and two generalists


  • #18
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Wrong you only get 3 judgings for the main award you get extra judges for the special awards e.g Intel award/rsa/analogue. But you only get 3 judges between wed/thurs and they determine 1st-3rd, highly commended, best group, best individual and runners up. They also determine overall winner, just 3 judgings. This Is well known and if you ask any winner who only won overall and no special awards they'll tell you they were only judged three times. As regards experts, they cant have every one judged by three experts in the area of each if the 550 projects, so some projects at best get one expert and two generalists

    Nope (I've been in it, multiple times). Judges on final day generally take off badges. The exhibition is so busy with industry and academic folk coming up to you that you can't tell the difference. You mostly find out afterwards when your neighbouring exhibitors tell you they recognised a judge they had earlier talking to you.


  • #19
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    dalta5billion wrote: »
    Nope (I've been in it, multiple times). Judges on final day generally take off badges. The exhibition is so busy with industry and academic folk coming up to you that you can't tell the difference. You mostly find out afterwards when your neighbouring exhibitors tell you they recognised a judge they had earlier talking to you.

    Teachers tell students about the "secret judges" Friday so that they will stay at their stands, lol. If I told my students "you'll be judged once on wed, twice on Thurs" they wouldn't turn up on Friday until the ceremony, or if they did turn up they'd be off chasing boys lol. Sorry to break it to you but any judges on Friday are for the special awards. The winner is known Thursday night by the people in charge.


  • #20
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,705 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    dalta5billion wrote: »
    This is just plain incorrect. Everyone who exhibits gets 3 judges who are working in related fields (for example John Dunnion from UCD is always sent round to the Computer Science projects).

    So why is it that this competition repeatedly rewards spoofers with IT projects?

    Edit: I don't mean Sarah Flannery but there were others.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #21
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    So why is it that this competition repeatedly rewards spoofers with IT projects?

    I'm going to be a little cynical and say its to do with the major sponsorship money being from IT firms and the whole nation is pretty much running on the employment provided by their tax exemption. Ireland is prime for some new blood in other fields e.g. Agriculture and food but we're just not investing that way at all.


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  • #22
    Screaming Monkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭Screaming Monkey


    mach1982 wrote: »
    It was proven that her algorithm wasn't able to be broken. I would say also that his qCrypt will be proven insecure also. Rember he is only a kid, and at that age, we all thought knew ever thing.
    There was a valid attack against Sarah's algorithm or her implementation, whole chapter in her book about it, along with how she with some help from the clevers in Baltimore technology tried to address it.

    If he has invented his own algorithm, then good luck with that because the security world is littered with the bodies of crypto fails. To me it just looks like standard off the shelf crypto with some fancy wrappers and quantum buzzwords.


  • #23
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    Given the discussion about this years BTYS competition going on here... https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057829909

    ... it prompted me to check in on qCrypt. It didn't win at the EUYS competition (I guess we would have heard about that) but there's no real insight (that I can find) on how it was received by judges. The website for the algorithm is a boiler plate landing page with some nice PR waffle. All the claims are still there about how awesome it is but I can find no independent research on the proposed algorithm/method. The link to the code is gone too and I can't find the github page with a Google search either. All in all, it really looks like there was no substance to the project that won the award last year. As I mentioned before, fair play to the kid for attempting something like this but it really hammers home the question of what exactly the judges are evaluating these projects on. It looks like anyone could go in with some huge claim, make it look complicated enough, add some nice graphics and the judges will believe it.


  • #24
    jmcc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Makes one wonder about the abilities of the judges.

    Regards...jmcc

    Regards…jmcc



  • #25
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,705 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Unfortunately when the time may come in a few years I'll be discouraging my kids from entering. They're not convincing liars and don't have a parent working as a third level academic so they'd have no chance...

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #26
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Unfortunately when the time may come in a few years I'll be discouraging my kids from entering. They're not convincing liars and don't have a parent working as a third level academic so they'd have no chance...

    I completely see where you are coming from but, personally, I'd be inclined to shield that level of cynicism (even though it is justified) from my own children. The BTYS competition encourages students with an interest in science at an early age. That in itself is a positive outcome. There's a huge buzz about it, it must be very exciting for any kid taking part. I wouldn't place much emphasis on the "winning" but I see taking part as a great experience in itself for many kids. "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" and all that...

    One can hope though that in future the projects might be vetted a bit more (as in the case of qCrypt) and the rules are tightened around how much work the student did independently (as in the case of this years winner).


  • #27
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Bacchus wrote: »
    around how much work the student did independently (as in the case of this years winner).

    I'm not currently in Ireland so I missed this, any more info?


  • #28
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,705 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Bacchus wrote: »
    I completely see where you are coming from but, personally, I'd be inclined to shield that level of cynicism (even though it is justified) from my own children.

    Well, I was joking. Kinda.

    We've brought the kids to the RDS the last two years (mostly to see the primary science fair) and they've enjoyed it - and I'm a science graduate myself so would love them to develop an interest in it. (Although, truth be told, I wouldn't recommend science as a career and I don't work in the field of my degree.)

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #29
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    ironclaw wrote: »
    I'm not currently in Ireland so I missed this, any more info?

    There's a whole thread on it in After Hours.

    TLDR; Yer man's mother is a scientist who published work in the same field about a decade ago. She has some ties to UCC (or CUH) where the actual experiments for the project were run. So there's a couple of question marks over how much help the student got, and did he have an unfair advantage over other students. I haven't been following it in detail but that's my understanding of the situation.


  • #30
    Reati
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭Reati


    mach1982 wrote: »
    Has he been hired by the NSA yet?

    All joking aside, a number of years ago a girl won with a crypto project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Flannery . entitled " Cryptography – A new algorithm versus the RSA "

    She even wrote a book about the experience.

    https://www.amazon.com/Code-Mathematical-Journey-Sarah-Flannery/dp/1565123778/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213378232&sr=8-1


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  • #31
    1137HB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ✭1137HB


    You are all talking pure ****e mainly because you're jealous. He's already on Forbes 30 under 30 list and he's only 18. Future millionaire in the making.


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