The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

seenitall · 24-05-2018 08:47AM

seamus wrote: »

The No campaign is going to lose on Friday

Apart from the time my GP told me that there was only a very small chance there would be any damage to the foetus after I contracted chicken pox in pregnancy, I have never in my life hoped for someone to be right nearly as much as I am wishing and hoping that you are.

So, I gather the turnout is everything. Please folks, get out there tomorrow and vote yes for all ours and our daughters' futures.

Mine was born perfect, btw (my daughter, that is

) I hope that a truly modern, equal, secular Ireland manages to do the same. Soon.

antiskeptic · 24-05-2018 08:47AM

Delirium wrote: »

Nobody is waving packs of cigs in my face in the streets :rolleyes:

They would were you planning to introduce them into the country

sjb25 · 24-05-2018 08:48AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Whilst I disagree completely with shock tactics and crude posters, I am somewhat bewildered by people who base their vote on the behavior of one particular side. To me, the vote is about whether or not you support repeal of the 8th amendment, but so many people I know have come out and said "oh I have decided to vote yes or no because of the bold boys and girls on the other side with their bad tactics" - how is the behavior of one side relevant to how you feel on the 8th?

You are probably correct it shouldn’t as I said I was 90% in the yes side anyway but 10% of me just wasn’t sure until that happened I possibly wouldn’t have voted either way but I am now I’m not going to be anyway associated with them absolute scumbags it’s probably not a reason to sway me but it has enough to make me 100% I won’t be intimidated or bullied and have scum shouting at me about killing babies in front of my 5 year old fcuk that

Cupcake_Crisis · 24-05-2018 08:49AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Throughout this entire 35 year farce, abortion on demand has been a short trip over the Irish Sea away.

No-one is alive because of the 8th - we are alive because our mothers made a choice.

Exactly. My mother made a choice to have me, I will make the choice to have me. I didn’t need constitutional protection because I had my mothers and my children will have mine.

OldNotWIse · 24-05-2018 08:50AM

sjb25 wrote: »

You are probably correct it shouldn’t as I said I was 90% in the yes side anyway but 10% of me just wasn’t sure until that happened I possibly wouldn’t have voted either way but I am now I’m not going to be anyway associated with them absolute scumbags it’s probably not a reason to sway me but it has enough to make me 100% I won’t be intimidated or bullied and have scum shouting at me about killing babies in front of my 5 year old fcuk that

So is it like a vote to get at the No campaigners that annoyed you?

Delirium · 24-05-2018 08:51AM

antiskeptic wrote: »

They would were you planning to introduce them into the country

again, very strange that pro-life campaigners seem to have no issue using images of dead babies as props for their argument.

The Yes didn't need to use images of a dying woman to make their argument.

It would suggest that one side relies shock tactics.

Leroy42 · 24-05-2018 08:52AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and forcing women to travel abroad makes it better?

You misunderstand me.

I am not talking about the matter of abortion. The poster (on boards not the one of the road!) stated that the no side should be ashamed of a poster showing a blood covered foetus.

I was asking why they were disgusted with a picture showing reality? Should we not show them so that people are protected from the reality of what they are being asked to vote on?

Should that be the factor that makes your choice? I don't think so, anymore that seeing an autopsy should mean we stop performing them or an amputation.

RobertKK · 24-05-2018 08:52AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Don't you think it's telling that the politicians most vocally against repeal are headcases though?

The most vocal politicians for Repeal the last number of years was Socialists like Ruth Coppinger who called on the government to nationalise Dell, a US multinational...

People can generalise about both sides, but there are people on both sides that each side would wish got less air time.

sjb25 · 24-05-2018 08:53AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

So is it like a vote to get at the No campaigners that annoyed you?

Nope it’s to do what’s right it just took a shower of scumbags to show me

Penn · 24-05-2018 08:53AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Don't you think it's telling that the politicians most vocally against repeal are headcases though?

It's genuinely insane to me that the No campaign keep putting forward the likes of Ronan Mullen and Mattie McGrath. I get that they're prominent members of the campaign, but surely there's enough of the others to say to them "You're not going on TV to talk about this. You're just so bad at it and you'll do more harm to our campaign than good. Go print leaflets or something."

Hector Savage · 24-05-2018 08:54AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Whilst I disagree completely with shock tactics and crude posters, I am somewhat bewildered by people who base their vote on the behavior of one particular side. To me, the vote is about whether or not you support repeal of the 8th amendment, but so many people I know have come out and said "oh I have decided to vote yes or no because of the bold boys and girls on the other side with their bad tactics" - how is the behavior of one side relevant to how you feel on the 8th?

Exactly, I will vote Yes because it is the right thing to do

The behaviour of BOTH sides has been awful, and I'm ambarassed about some yes people.

At least it's easy to complain about the religious nutters with their "Abortion is Murder" posters ...

Water John · 24-05-2018 08:57AM

The No side were simply short of media savvy people. The Yes side had Aoibinn Ni Suillibean whereas the No side had a crackpot, whose name I can't remember from Spirit Radio.

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2018 08:57AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

You misunderstand me.

I am not talking about the matter of abortion. The poster (on boards not the one of the road!) stated that the no side should be ashamed of a poster showing a blood covered foetus.

I was asking why they were disgusted with a picture showing reality? Should we not show them so that people are protected from the reality of what they are being asked to vote on?

Should that be the factor that makes your choice? I don't think so, anymore that seeing an autopsy should mean we stop performing them or an amputation.

which reality does it show? Does it show the results of an abortion before twelve weeks of a 2 inch fetus? Of course not, there is no shock value in that. Instead they purport to show the results of a late term medical abortion which are only done for medical reasons. So basically they are happy to exploit the suffering of women forced to have late term surgical abortions for medical reasons. LoveBoth me arse.

juanjo · 24-05-2018 08:57AM

Ok, I think we're drifting away from the main issue here. What was the latest information we have about bum sex?

nozzferrahhtoo · 24-05-2018 08:57AM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

You have validated my point. I or you or anyone can never feel someone elses emotions. Sharing in them like the Yes side lets on is a huge lie. All peoples thoughts and emotions and feelings are somewhat independent despite how much we know them or love them. Or this thing or "walking in someone elses shoes". I can try. But to say I would then understand their thoughts emotions and feelings is a blatant lie.

That in and of itself is not a true statement though. Empathy means "the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.". This of course presumes the one you are sharing them with exists, and has feelings to be shared.

But we can share the feelings and emotions of other people. There are concepts in biology like "mirror Neurons" that allow us to represent and even feel the physical and emotional feelings of another. That is what empathy even means. If YOU have no empathy that is one thing, but that does not suggest it does not exist.

So we very much can empathize with women who have a crisis or unwanted pregnancy. We can not however empathize with a fetus when it has no feelings, or even the capacity for feelings, to empathize with. You would be as well trying to empathize with a rock.

Stonedpilot wrote: »

How do you know a unborn baby doesnt have thoughts or feelings?

I am not sure why you are bringing late term abortions into this issue when that is not what is proposed, and the vast majority of abortions based on choice occur by 10 weeks. Abortions happening in late term are generally done from some form of necessity, not choice, and while this is indeed horrible that it has to happen..... the relevance of it HERE is not clear.

We know many of the required pre-requisites of sentience, consciousness, thought and emotion. And a fetus at 10/12/16 weeks lacks those things. Not slightly, but entirely. So anyone who thinks they are empathizing with such a fetus is not empathizing with the feelings of the fetus at all, but is in fact projecting their OWN feelings onto a blank slate and empathizing with themselves.

....... · 24-05-2018 08:57AM

This post has been deleted.

Cupcake_Crisis · 24-05-2018 08:58AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

You misunderstand me.

I am not talking about the matter of abortion. The poster (on boards not the one of the road!) stated that the no side should be ashamed of a poster showing a blood covered foetus.

I was asking why they were disgusted with a picture showing reality? Should we not show them so that people are protected from the reality of what they are being asked to vote on?

Should that be the factor that makes your choice? I don't think so, anymore that seeing an autopsy should mean we stop performing them or an amputation.

Those posters are extremely crass, but I can see why they use them- they’re extremely provocative. However, with imagery like that they should be made to prove that it’s factual (ie: it represents the appropriate gestational age) and they shouldn’t be allowed near maternity hospital or schools.

antiskeptic · 24-05-2018 08:59AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Don't you think it's telling that the politicians most vocally against repeal are headcases though?

I don't see it as particularly telling no. You can have an intelligent politician, who is a dangerous as hell, working away on the other side.

I'm not suggesting this will transpire in fact but if, 10 years hence we have the same abortion regime as the UK and treble the abortion rates?

And a politician who managed to achieve the highest office in the land on the back of it.

Mattie or him?

BabyCheeses · 24-05-2018 08:59AM

RobertKK wrote: »

The most vocal politicians for Repeal the last number of years was Socialists like Ruth Coppinger who called on the government to nationalise Dell, a US multinational...

People can generalise about both sides, but there are people on both sides that each side would wish got less air time.

She needs to get to the real issues like fraping, wiffy, god controlling the weather, and defending paedophiles

OldNotWIse · 24-05-2018 09:00AM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Exactly, I will vote Yes because it is the right thing to do

The behaviour of BOTH sides has been awful, and I'm ambarassed about some yes people.

At least it's easy to complain about the religious nutters with their "Abortion is Murder" posters ...

I too despise the religious nutters and think that when they put their hand to anything its the kiss of death - thankfully no all pro life people are religious

I will be voting No because it is the right thing to do.

And yes behavior on both sides has been appalling and I am truly jaded by it at this point.l

gmisk · 24-05-2018 09:00AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's fair enough, but it seems to be a majority on the no side who are like that compared to a few on the yes side. Now that I think about it they're all (on both sides) probably just saying what the think will win them votes anyway.

I wouldn't waste your time and energy replying to that poster.
He was already asked not to post on this thread but here he is (see page 194 of this thread)

retro:electro · 24-05-2018 09:00AM

Could shift Pat Kenny after that debate. Ronan Mullen wtf what a goon. Is he a plant for the Yes? Absolute turd of a human

antiskeptic · 24-05-2018 09:01AM

juanjo wrote: »

Ok, I think we're drifting away from the main issue here. What was the latest information we have about bum sex?

There's a dilation tool for that. Coming to this country soon.

OldNotWIse · 24-05-2018 09:01AM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Theres a report button for that

Which is great for those of us who wish to use it.

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2018 09:02AM

gmisk wrote: »

I wouldn't waste your time and energy replying to that poster.
He was already asked not to post on this thread but here he is (see page 194 of this thread)

what post number? we dont all have the same number of posts per thread

OldNotWIse · 24-05-2018 09:03AM

sjb25 wrote: »

Nope it’s to do what’s right it just took a shower of scumbags to show me

OK, sorry I must have misunderstood when you said you were voting yes because their behavior offended you. My apologies

Stonedpilot · 24-05-2018 09:03AM

....... wrote: »

Because a fetus up to 12 weeks does not have brain activity.

Are you reaching for "peak crazy" with this incorrect and inflammatory point?

nice deflection eh!.

Most yes voters totally ignoring what an abortion after 12 weeks actually is. As usual.

Heres an ex abortion Dr to explain

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=53tzMV9OmvY

sjb25 · 24-05-2018 09:04AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

OK, sorry I must have misunderstood when you said you were voting yes because their behavior offended you. My apologies

I probably could word things better I don’t talk good words

OldNotWIse · 24-05-2018 09:05AM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

nice deflection eh!.

Most yes voters totally ignoring what an abortion after 12 weeks actually is. As usual.

Heres an ex abortion Dr to explain

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=53tzMV9OmvY

Nobody is going to actually click on that. The truth hurts. Willful blindness and sanitization of the issue is the way to go.

OldNotWIse · 24-05-2018 09:05AM

sjb25 wrote: »

I probably could word things better I don’t talk good words

It's fine - I think I understand 100%

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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