Men's rights on Abortion?

antiskeptic · 22-05-2018 11:03AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your in a men's rights on abortion thread asking men to give up their first right and I'm the one that doesn't understand, cute.

Forgive them. They know not what they do.

....... · 22-05-2018 11:05AM

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....... · 22-05-2018 11:07AM

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Triceratops Ballet · 22-05-2018 11:08AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The lose the right to life. Their first given and protected right.

That right is gone anyway because of the 12th and 13th amendment. Our constitution is a lesson in contradiction.

The unborn has equal right to life as the mother. The mother has constitutional right to travel to end said life.

Tell me how · 22-05-2018 11:15AM

drunkmonkey wrote:

The bigger picture is more people will die and men are giving up their only right.

But what right (in legal terms) are men giving up?

I don't believe a man's right to have a child should override a woman's right not to. In simplistic term's. But yes, if a married couple become pregnant unexpectedly and the man wants an abortion, he could end up having to provide for that child for 18 years against his will but if the roles are reversed, she will be able to abort. Is that going to happen every day? No. But it's the premise of the law we are discussing, and that does seem like an imbalance which I have yet to rationalize.

I am still undecided, even given all the discussion over the last few months, because the thought of consciously removing a life from a viable fetus in a healthy mother is something I struggle with.

I have 3 sisters and for them, should they have to deal with an unviable pregnancy, I absolutely would want for them (and any woman in such circumstances) to be able to access abortion safely but I'm uncomfortable with the unrestricted element in the draft legislation. It just seems wrong or against a compassionate society that we aim (profess) to have. I would like to see the 8th amended to account much better for the hard cases.

I am concerned that in an unrestricted place (up to 12 weeks) that some women will end up being pushed towards abortion because the father, or family and friends are telling her forcefully, abortion is legal and easy now, she should do it! Some will be strong enough to resist this pressure. But some won't.

I know people will say that Friday is all about repeal, but it's very much with an understanding of what the draft legislation contains.

drunkmonkey · 22-05-2018 11:22AM

The right to life written in the constitution. Everyone has it.
That is what your voting on nothing else.

....... · 22-05-2018 11:26AM

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Outlaw Pete · 22-05-2018 11:27AM

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That is a ridiculous thing to say. If your mother did what Sarah Catt above did, and took pills to kill you mere days before you were to be born, you wouldn't be here to bemoan that either, doesn't mean you should feeling fine now about the prospect of your mother ever having made that decision.

Haven't you ever had any scrapes with death, like a car nearly hitting you or something? Well, afterwards, haven't you been glad that they didn't? Of course you have. That's why such things are called 'life affirming' momnts. But by your logic, people shouldn't feel that way, as if the car had hit them they'd be dead and not here to bemoan it.

I may not have existed for dozens of reasons. If my parents hadnt had sex that night, if their contraception had worked, if they hadnt met each other...

We're not talking about never having existed. We are talking about the exact opposite of that in fact. Existing and being glad to still be existing.

....... · 22-05-2018 11:30AM

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Triceratops Ballet · 22-05-2018 11:33AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The right to life written in the constitution. Everyone has it.
That is what your voting on nothing else.

we're talking about the right to life of the unborn being equal to the life of the woman carrying it. That is what we're voting on. Nothing else.

This is not about the general right to life.

Do you think the unborn have an equal right to life as the women you share your life with? and are you happy that their care may be compromised to vindicate the right to life of the unborn?

If you're not vote yes, if you are vote no.

RocketRaccoon · 22-05-2018 11:36AM

So when the No vote wins, and it will, can men and old women who don't vote shove it in the faces of the Yes campaigners? Our opinions don't matter apparently so why should we vote yes?

A lot of women have held disgusting opinions throughout this campaign by belittling men all around the country.

NoviGlitzko · 22-05-2018 11:37AM

I'm late to this thread but I believe the man should have just as much say as the woman. 'But you don't have to be involved!' - You have to spend the rest of your life knowing you have a child that for whatever reason you didn't want. That beat's any 9 month gestation period for a woman IMO.

....... · 22-05-2018 11:38AM

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Outlaw Pete · 22-05-2018 11:40AM

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It's not weird just because you say it's weird. It's no different than being glad you weren't killed at any point in your life.

Wouldnt matter to me. I wouldnt have existed.

Are you saying a fetus doesn't exist now?

How can a fetus have a life affirming feeling when it has no consciousness?

I was not saying a fetus can have a life affirming moment. I was making the point that humans have them all the time despite the fact that had they been killed, they would not be here to bemoan what it was that took their life. That was a point that you made. I was retorting it.

You can only be glad you existed because you have existed. You cant feel bad you didnt when you didnt.

Precisely. So why are you going on about your parents not having met, or used a condom etc. They are in no way comparable to a fetus that very much exists and whose life has begun, and which an abortion will end.

Tell me how · 22-05-2018 11:41AM

I've just seen the poll. Wow. I am shocked to think 53.78% believe abortion should be 100% the choice of the woman. :eek:

Triceratops Ballet · 22-05-2018 11:42AM

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

I'm late to this thread but I believe the man should have just as much say as the woman. 'But you don't have to be involved!' - You have to spend the rest of your life knowing you have a child that for whatever reason you didn't want. That beat's any 9 month gestation period for a woman IMO.

Of course both partners should have a say but What do you think should happen in the case of a disagreement, say for example where she doesn't want to be pregnant and is seeking a termination and he wants to have the baby? or vice versa when she wants to have the baby and he wants her to have a termination?

....... · 22-05-2018 11:45AM

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Tell me how · 22-05-2018 11:47AM

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They are not living the same life but why do couples refer to their unborn as if they were outside the womb?

The baby likes music.
The baby hears your voice.
The baby is doing laps today.

....... · 22-05-2018 11:48AM

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RocketRaccoon · 22-05-2018 11:54AM

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Aww you're a cute one.

You know exactly what I mean. Certain women have said mens opinions on this do not matter, why should we vote yes? Its a very dangerous game these women have been playing.

NoviGlitzko · 22-05-2018 12:01PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Of course both partners should have a say but What do you think should happen in the case of a disagreement, say for example where she doesn't want to be pregnant and is seeking a termination and he wants to have the baby? or vice versa when she wants to have the baby and he wants her to have a termination?

If either doesn't want it, abort it. Might seem harsh but no point dragging someone through utter misery because one person wants it. In fact I'd question the woman who would purposely keep a pregnancy when the man is so set against it. 'But if you made it keep it' I hear. Give me a break. No one is immune to making mistakes.

I know a girl where she got pregnant at 16 and the man wanted the baby (he was years older) but she didn't. She traveled and had the baby aborted. It was a terribly difficult time for her but she said it was the best thing she could've done at the time. I believe the man should have the same right as her situation.

Tell me how · 22-05-2018 12:04PM

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You're right. Most women don't consider they are pregnant at all until quickening starts.

They hardly discuss it with their partner or mention it at all but when they do, they refer to it as "the thing".

....... · 22-05-2018 12:05PM

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SusieBlue · 22-05-2018 12:05PM

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Aww you're a cute one.

You know exactly what I mean. Certain women have said mens opinions on this do not matter, why should we vote yes? Its a very dangerous game these women have been playing.

Mens opinions absolutely do matter. These laws can affect their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers. Of course they should have a say.

The "why should I?" narrative you're pushing here though, shows you have no interest in the matter.
You're more concerned with being offended about a very small minority of people saying men shouldn't have a say than you are with the actual topic at hand.

SusieBlue · 22-05-2018 12:07PM

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

If either doesn't want it, abort it. Might seem harsh but no point dragging someone through utter misery because one person wants it. In fact I'd question the woman who would purposely keep a pregnancy when the man is so set against it. 'But if you made it keep it' I hear. Give me a break. No one is immune to making mistakes.

I know a girl where she got pregnant at 16 and the man wanted the baby (he was years older) but she didn't. She traveled and had the baby aborted. It was a terribly difficult time for her but she said it was the best thing she could've done at the time. I believe the man should have the same right as her situation.

But it can't be equal. Someone has to have the deciding vote, and surely that person should be the one who has to carry the pregnancy?

Tell me how · 22-05-2018 12:08PM

SusieBlue wrote:

The "why should I?" narrative you're pushing here though, shows you have no interest in the matter. You're more concerned with being offended about a very small minority of people saying men shouldn't have a say than you are with the actual topic at hand.

Over 53% of voters on the poll on this thread think men shouldn't have a say.
I genuinely can't believe that.

RocketRaccoon · 22-05-2018 12:09PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Mens opinions absolutely do matter. These laws can affect their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers. Of course they should have a say.

The "why should I?" narrative you're pushing here though, shows you have no interest in the matter.
You're more concerned with being offended about a very small minority of people saying men shouldn't have a say than you are with the actual topic at hand.

I posted in this thread a few months back and realised it was a pointless debate, feel free to go back and find my posts and you'll see why I am interested. This is just something that has been in my mind for the last few days.

The amount of posts on Facebook, twitter etc saying that men can't give birth therefore their opinions don't matter are mind blowing.

Tell me how · 22-05-2018 12:10PM

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How about if your partner wanted the baby but you didn't? Would you use emotional terms when discussing it?

Triceratops Ballet · 22-05-2018 12:11PM

Tell me how wrote: »

How about if your partner wanted the baby but you didn't? Would you use emotional terms when discussing it?

I imagine the partner who wanted it would speak in emotional terms and the one who didn't wouldn't.

seamus · 22-05-2018 12:14PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Over 53% of voters on the poll on this thread think men shouldn't have a say.
I genuinely can't believe that.

Shouldn't have a say in what a woman does with her body.

Not "shouldn't have a say in the referendum".

Men's rights on Abortion?

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