The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

gmisk · 21-05-2018 07:40PM

Gonad wrote: »

Never before have I been so torn when it comes to a vote . The toughest issue because all arguments are valid . It just comes down to what you believe is morally correct.

If abortion was here back in the 80’s myself and half my friends might not be here . How many young ones will be going and aborting babies like there is no tomorrow . I know that might sound dramatic but there will be many many lives stopped before they started and it’s these lives have no voice of their own.

Then you have the other side where people really need the abortion for medical reasons or other tragic circumstances and these people need to have a choice and not shipped abroad

I don’t know what to do . My heart says one thing and my head says another .

I think this is essential reading, real stories of people effected by the 8th.
https://www.facebook.com/RepealTheEighth/

....... · 21-05-2018 07:42PM

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average_runner · 21-05-2018 07:42PM

The ones that want the abortion are going to the uk anyhow. But maybe think of this picture.

A mother of two children currently has a dead baby in her womb. She has to wait x number of weeks where she is open to infection. If she gets that infection within those number of weeks she cant be treated and could die like others have.

Thats called murdering a mother of two kids.

21-05-2018 07:43PM

Gonad wrote: »

Never before have I been so torn when it comes to a vote . The toughest issue because all arguments are valid . It just comes down to what you believe is morally correct.

If abortion was here back in the 80’s myself and half my friends might not be here . How many young ones will be going and aborting babies like there is no tomorrow . I know that might sound dramatic but there will be many many lives stopped before they started and it’s these lives have no voice of their own.

Then you have the other side where people really need the abortion for medical reasons or other tragic circumstances and these people need to have a choice and not shipped abroad

I don’t know what to do . My heart says one thing and my head says another .

This argument always comes up but it's not borne out by the evidence from other countries that legalised abortion. For examples, look up Switzerland and Portugal who also held referendums on this topic, and once abortion was legal the rates either stayed the same or went down.

At the moment, if an Irish woman wants an abortion she will get it. If she can't afford to travel she'll take dangerous risks with her health and get pills off the internet and take them unsupervised.

Ultimately a No vote is saying that it's more important to keep up the pretence that abortion doesn't happen in Ireland than it is to treat our women with compassion. The women carrying babies with fatal foetal abnormalities and rape victims are just collateral damage.

A No vote won't stop abortions, they are already happening.

DarkScar · 21-05-2018 07:44PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I never said that, somebody else did. But some guy with a ladder did try to assault the bearded guy and then fell over.

Ah yes, beardy "tourist" guy just standing minding his own business at a lamp post then repeatedly battered with a ladder for no reason whatsoever, then heroically defending himself.
See many pink elephants in the video too?
Are you even able to admit importahero was blocking posters being put up? (which as I've said I'd be totally delighted with if they banned all posters)

kanadams123 · 21-05-2018 07:45PM

gmisk wrote: »

I think this is essential reading, real stories of people effected by the 8th.
https://www.facebook.com/RepealTheEighth/

As a balance..also look at the love both facebook page

....... · 21-05-2018 07:46PM

This post has been deleted.

gmisk · 21-05-2018 07:46PM

kanadams123 wrote: »

As a balance..also look at the love both facebook page

Sure post a link. You are more than welcome to post it for the OP.

PARlance · 21-05-2018 07:47PM

spookwoman wrote: »

How do you know it was not taken by someone in the back seat or passenger side because there is no reference point eg steering wheel. etc. I was reported to the police, why would someone report to the police for the hell of it?

I don't know. I said "looks like" and it looks like it was taken by the driver to me. Camera angle mainly. But again, I don't know.

How do you know it was actually reported to the Gardaí?

Forgive me for thinking that it's more than likely bullsh1t to believe that a No voter has resorted to attempting to ram a Yes voter off the road. My guess is that it's just someone looking for a bit of attention.

They could have made it more believable if they picked an non Audi / BMW.

kanadams123 · 21-05-2018 07:49PM

gmisk wrote: »

Sure post a link. You are more than welcome to post it for the OP.

Sorry..i thought i had it included in last post..sorry!!!

https://m.facebook.com/lovebothproject/

DarkScar · 21-05-2018 07:50PM

PARlance wrote: »

I don't know. I said "looks like" and it looks like it was taken by the driver to me. Camera angle mainly. But again, I don't know.

How do you know it was actually reported to the Gardaí?

Forgive me for thinking that it's more than likely bullsh1t to believe that a No voter has resorted to attempting to ram a Yes voter off the road. My guess is that it's just someone looking for a bit of attention.

They could have made it more believable if they picked an non Audi / BMW.

Can't find one bit of info on this anywhere... surely the Yes side aren't making **** up too?

ohnonotgmail · 21-05-2018 07:50PM

DarkScar wrote: »

Ah yes, beardy "tourist" guy just standing minding his own business at a lamp post then repeatedly battered with a ladder for no reason whatsoever, then heroically defending himself.
See many pink elephants in the video too?
Are you even able to admit importahero was blocking posters being put up? (which as I've said I'd be totally delighted with if they banned all posters)

beardy guy was standing in front of the pole preventing ganley from putting his ladder against it. Ganley then pushed his ladder against beardy guy. This constitutes assault. Beardy guy then pushes the ladder off himself and ganley then becomes a cruel victim of physics. Did i miss anything?

kanadams123 · 21-05-2018 07:51PM

....... wrote: »

But that just contains a lot of outright lies and misleading information.

Show me one thing thats on that page that is an outright lie?

jigglypuffstuff · 21-05-2018 07:51PM

spookwoman wrote: »

It's not the primary reason for intercourse, its there for bonding, pleasure etc. Not everyone wants to have anal sex, blowjobs etc even then you can get pregnant because no contraception is 100% all it takes is one little bugger.
You want to control people's lives when you say "don't engage in sexual intercourse ie vaginal sex." you want to impose your values on other people. How would you feel if I forced my values on you.
I see in another post you want to have a kid with your partner. Now how would you like it if we told you you can't have children because of your health, you views, your religion, because you used contraception when the church said thats against their rules. Because you didn't impregnate your wife/girlfriend every time you have sex

It is biologically a fact that sexual intercourse is for procreation ... that is its function, and that is why it exists

Bonding, pleasure and all the other frilly subjective things you want to mention are essentially side effects....they are a side effect not it's function. It's unimportant whether you accept that or not

I am not imposing values at all...I am telling you facts

Here's another one... the facts don't care about your feelings.

Also stop mentioning religion like it's actually relevant to my point...I never once mentioned anywhere anything about religion. So stop inventing points to argue

And try keeping to the point in regards to posts in LTI... they are of no relevance or purpose innyhuf discussion

ohnonotgmail · 21-05-2018 07:52PM

PARlance wrote: »

I don't know. I said "looks like" and it looks like it was taken by the driver to me. Camera angle mainly. But again, I don't know.

How do you know it was actually reported to the Gardaí?

Forgive me for thinking that it's more than likely bullsh1t to believe that a No voter has resorted to attempting to ram a Yes voter off the road. My guess is that it's just someone looking for a bit of attention.

They could have made it more believable if they picked an non Audi / BMW.

what do you think the camera angle tells you? There is no frame of reference. We dont see anything of the car the pic was taken from.

Barnaboy · 21-05-2018 07:53PM

Gonad wrote: »

If abortion was here back in the 80’s myself and half my friends might not be here . How many young ones will be going and aborting babies like there is no tomorrow . I know that might sound dramatic but there will be many many lives stopped before they started and it’s these lives have no voice of their own.

Great stuff, somebody actually discussing the referendum! I made a serious post about an hour ago and since I posted there are just several pages discussing ladders and marital sex.....

To give my opinion on your point, the you and half your mates bit, ridiculous! As I said in my earlier post women won't suddenly have abortions for the craic. 99% of women considering abortion will be in crisis. The other 1% will be doing our society a favour by not having that child.

Voting yes allows those in crisis to make the decision that is right for them.

DarkScar · 21-05-2018 07:53PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

beardy guy was standing in front of the pole preventing ganley from putting his ladder against it.

So you freely admit the Yes side is physically blocking No campaigners.
OK. Thanks for your honesty.

PARlance · 21-05-2018 07:54PM

DarkScar wrote: »

Can't find one bit of info on this anywhere... surely the Yes side aren't making **** up too?

Well I wouldn't look at it as the "yes side" or no side per se. There are idiots aplenty within both camps. They won't be representive of voters on both sides.

Ave Sodalis · 21-05-2018 07:54PM

Gonad wrote:

If abortion was here back in the 80â€™s myself and half my friends might not be here . How many young ones will be going and aborting babies like there is no tomorrow . I know that might sound dramatic but there will be many many lives stopped before they started and itâ€™s these lives have no voice of their own.

My mother would have likely aborted me (I don't know for sure but many people in her position would). I'm perfectly okay with that. She had a **** life and I know I made it all the more harder. She had two mouths to feed rather than one so she often went hungry herself at the end of the week. She was barely more than a child and had left home at that stage.

Now I like the fact that I'm alive, but why would I wish that sort of existence on anyone I claim to care about?

ohnonotgmail · 21-05-2018 07:54PM

pone2012 wrote: »

It is biologically a fact that sexual intercourse is for procreation ... that is its function, and that is why it exists

Bonding, pleasure and all the other frilly subjective things you want to mention are essentially side effects....they are a side effect not it's function. It's unimportant whether you accept that or not

I am not imposing values at all...I am telling you facts

Here's another one... the facts don't care about your feelings.

Also stop mentioning religion like it's actually relevant to my point...I never once mentioned anywhere anything about religion. So stop inventing points to argue

if you are a base animal then the part in bold is correct. And even in some of those it doesnt always hold true. Bonobos hump each basically to say hello. humans have evolved beyond sex just being for procreation. Or at least some of us have.

Cupcake_Crisis · 21-05-2018 07:55PM

pone2012 wrote: »

It is biologically a fact that sexual intercourse is for procreation ... that is its function, and that is why it exists

Bonding, pleasure and all the other frilly subjective things you want to mention are essentially side effects....they are a side effect not it's function. It's unimportant whether you accept that or not

I am not imposing values at all...I am telling you facts

Here's another one... the facts don't care about your feelings.

Also stop mentioning religion like it's actually relevant to my point...I never once mentioned anywhere anything about religion. So stop inventing points to argue

Ok, you don’t like sex, we get it! But the rest of us do. Abstinence is not a realistic solution and we’ve argued that to death. Granted, it’s been amusing, but we’ve covered it. Have you any other points you’d like to put forward?

DarkScar · 21-05-2018 07:55PM

pone2012 wrote: »

It is biologically a fact that sexual intercourse is for procreation ... that is its function, and that is why it exists

"Why" is for theists. It just is that way, there's no "why" unless you think things have a divine purpose. Ew.

ohnonotgmail · 21-05-2018 07:56PM

DarkScar wrote: »

So you freely admit the Yes side is physically blocking No campaigners.
OK. Thanks for your honesty.

He did block him. that much is obvious. It is also a public place and beardy guy has as much right to stand there as ganley does. Do you admit that ganley assaulted him with the ladder.

amcalester · 21-05-2018 07:57PM

DarkScar wrote: »

So you freely admit the Yes side is physically blocking No campaigners.
OK. Thanks for your honesty.

Is there anything actually wrong with that?

I believe it’s illegal to deface or remove a poster but is there anything wrong/illegal with preventing a poster being placed in the first place?

That clip looked choreographed anyway.

Annabella1 · 21-05-2018 07:57PM

Bookies at 1-7 yes

....... · 21-05-2018 07:58PM

This post has been deleted.

DarkScar · 21-05-2018 08:00PM

amcalester wrote: »

Is there anything actually wrong with that?

I believe it’s illegal to deface or remove a poster but is there anything wrong/illegal with preventing a poster being placed in the first place?

That clip looked choreographed anyway.

If you stand in people's way for no other reason than to hinder their progress then pretty much yeah, there's plenty wrong with that. If somebody deliberately blocked you in the street you'd say "fair enough" and wait for them to get tired of it, then not report it? Sure.
Unless you're claiming he was making a citizens arrest... please don't...

DarkScar · 21-05-2018 08:03PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He did block him. that much is obvious. It is also a public place and beardy guy has as much right to stand there as ganley does. Do you admit that ganley assaulted him with the ladder.

If walking into somebody deliberately blocking your way is an assault... which it isn't... then yeah. But no.
So the Yes side physically prevent the No side from campaigning. Glad we've sorted that out.

spookwoman · 21-05-2018 08:04PM

pone2012 wrote: »

It is biologically a fact that sexual intercourse is for procreation ... that is its function, and that is why it exists

Bonding, pleasure and all the other frilly subjective things you want to mention are essentially side effects....they are a side effect not it's function. It's unimportant whether you accept that or not

I am not imposing values at all...I am telling you facts

Here's another one... the facts don't care about your feelings.

Also stop mentioning religion like it's actually relevant to my point...I never once mentioned anywhere anything about religion. So stop inventing points to argue

And try keeping to the point in regards to posts in LTI... they are of no relevance or purpose innyhuf discussion

If its as you say a "It is biologically a fact that sexual intercourse is for procreation ... that is its function, and that is why it exists" then why do people still have sex when they are well past reproductive age?
You you have just have sex to reproduce?
You don't like it when people mention religion is it because we are correct and you don't like hearing the truth?
I brought up the lti because i thought maybe the poster was referencing it. But reading it more I would have thought that someone like yourself may have a bit more compassion towards someone in a crisis pregnancy because they may be suffering from the same things. how you you feel if you forced into doing something against your will that caused those conditions to get worse.

Don't bother answering because we will just get the same answer over and over again.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 21-05-2018 08:04PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

With all due respect, that’s a rabbit hole that’s not worth going down.
Her birth mother didn’t have an abortion (even though she could have travelled to the UK) and your wife was born and is here.
By the same logic, her mother could have had a miscarriage, or she could have died as a child, but she didn’t, and she’s here.

Did you ever wonder how many kids you’d have if you and your wife never used contraception? Do you miss those kids you never had?
Do you feel deprived of the family you could have had, with 10 or 11 little kids in the house?

I don’t mean any of this in a nasty way, I just don’t know how else to make my point. We can’t miss what never was.

It’s clear you love your wife very much - would you be happy for her to be refused treatment if she fell pregnant while she had cancer?
And I’m not saying if that were the case, abortion is the only option - but would you not like the choice?
Would you not like other people’s wives to have a choice?

I can see why it’s a complex moral issue for people, especially in your case. But we need to focus on the here and now.

It’s a rabbit hole that’s very much worth going down, cause it’s my experience and my vote; in much the same way it’s your experience and vote.

Introducing such a non factor as contraception to compare to a 12week old fetus, has no place in this discussion IMO (esp when you introduce the “if” option).

My wife, and more specifically my kids future, is very on my mind. And not just them, the kids that may be raped and those who could die in childbirth. It weights very very strongly on my mind.

“Would you not like other people’s wives to have a choice?”
This is a comment that I’ve seen used. Please don’t assume that people who think about the unborn don’t think about the women involved as well.

BTW choices do exist; safe sex, giving birth, even going to the UK may be an option.
I understand the “choice” discussion. It’s why I think about the choice the unborn cannot make.

Honestly, I do appreciate your feedback, and the points you raise are not being ignored (as many were already on my mind). For me personally it’s a very difficult decision, even though I do believe the Yes vote will be successful (based on the discussions I’ve viewed and been part of).

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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