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8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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Comments

  • #9212
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Logo wrote: »
    I'm sure Hitler used the same logic

    Why are you so obsessed with hitler?


  • #9213
    DOS
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 191 ✭✭DOS


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Yes, the CoI was opposed to the 8th back in 1983 because it is sectarian Catholic dogma.


    Now they look to be getting played by the Catholic Church into voting for it to remain to prevent the 12 week proposal. They should clearly state that they want the 8th repealed and then oppose the 12 week legislation.

    We aren't being played by anyone. You want to create your own narrative.


  • #9214
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,246 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Logo wrote: »
    I'm sure Hitler used the same logic

    You keep bringing Hitler up. You should educate yourself. Hitler and the Nazis were OPPOSED to abortion for their beloved Aryans. i.e. on the same side as the Vatican and the Iona institute.


  • #9215
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    DOS wrote: »
    Your post is bigoted against Christians. So much for liberty that the masses on here claim they seek.

    You're aware of course that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion? You folk seem to have an awful habit of overlooking that little bit.

    Meaning that your beliefs shouldn't impact on those of us that don't share those beliefs?


  • #9216
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    DOS wrote: »
    Sweeping generalised nothing post. Replying just to say 'something'. My church is concerned about life at all stages.


    Did your congregation applaud when your priest gave his sermon about all the babies found in sewage chambers in Tuam?


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  • #9217
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Did your congregation applaud when your priest gave his sermon about all the babies found in sewage chambers in Tuam?

    Technically, as he's Church of Ireland, he's a minister.


  • #9218
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    BabysCoffee wrote: »
    Anyone been out canvassing in recent days? How is it going?

    My OH is. Very positive response to Yes on the doors, she was at the stall in Liffey Valley yesterday and I went over, very positive response from the public and only a few people refused to take leaflets.

    The two latest polls are over 2:1 for Yes. It won't be that result on Saturday but I'm thinking it won't be as close as many people have been saying.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #9219
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    DOS wrote: »
    What church are you talking about? I'm Church of Ireland. Though I respect all Christian brethren.

    Your post is bigoted against Christians. So much for liberty that the masses on here claim they seek.

    Surely you know that as a Church of Ireland parishioner, you know that the CoI is both Catholic and Protestant.

    And separation of church and state means ALL churches and state.


  • #9220
    Dressing gown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭Dressing gown


    DOS wrote: »
    What church are you talking about? I'm Church of Ireland. Though I respect all Christian brethren.

    Your post is bigoted against Christians. So much for liberty that the masses on here claim they seek.

    I’m actually a catholic myself. I’ve no problem with christians. I do have a problem with the dishonesty of the no side of this campaign. The economy with the truth is disgraceful. The sleaze and shock tactics just plain wrong. I’m really irritated by having to have repeat conversations with my seven year old about this way before she can understand it because of the rubbish littering every lamppost. My first post was a response to a previous one I apologise I should have been more transparent. But I also think the church is morally wrong to endorse either side of the argument. They are vilifying members of their own congregation in doing so. Let he has not sinned cast the first stone and all that.


  • #9221
    DOS
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 191 ✭✭DOS


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    Technically, as he's Church of Ireland, he's a minister.
    As 'he'. How presumptive.

    There is a difference between freedom from religion and bigotry against people who make civil decisions based on their religion.


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  • #9222
    DOS
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 191 ✭✭DOS


    Dressing gown wrote: »
    You’ve now called me a bigot and likened me to Hitler. Way to go on steering clear of personal insults.

    I’m actually a catholic myself. I’ve no problem with christians. I do have a problem with the dishonesty of the no side of this campaign. The economy with the truth is disgraceful. The sleaze and shock tactics just plain wrong. I’m really irritated by having to have repeat conversations with my seven year old about this way before she can understand it because of the rubbish littering every lamppost. My first post was a response to a previous one I apologise I should have been more transparent. But I also think the church is morally wrong to endorse with side of the argument. They are vilifying members of their own congregation in doing so. Let he has not sinned cast the first stone and all that.

    When did I compare you to Hitler??!


  • #9223
    Logo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Logo


    I'm not religious. However it's difficult for even me to see how being allowed to abort a fetus after 3 months and murdering a child after six months is right


  • #9224
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    DOS wrote: »
    As 'he'. How presumptive.

    There is a difference between freedom from religion and bigotry against people who make civil decisions based on their religion.

    That’s the problem though. I don’t share your beliefs, why should my healthcare be restricted because you are voting in accordance to your beliefs?
    Especially when I don’t share your faith or your opinion on the topic?


  • #9225
    DOS
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 191 ✭✭DOS


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Did your congregation applaud when your priest gave his sermon about all the babies found in sewage chambers in Tuam?

    I've reported that vile statement. And do keep up I'm CoI.


  • #9226
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Logo wrote: »
    I'm not religious. However it's difficult for even me to see how being allowed to abort a fetus after 3 months and murdering a child after six months is right

    It depends on the alternatives. You're seeing this as an abstract moral question. In reality, it never is. The alternative could be death for the mother (which has happened) or suffering and eventual death of the baby.


  • #9227
    Dressing gown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭Dressing gown


    DOS wrote: »
    When did I compare you to Hitler??!

    Sorry I got that wrong post edited


  • #9228
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,382 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    DOS wrote: »
    When did I compare you to Hitler??!
    I think poster is confused possibly 'logo', brought up Hitler bizarrely.


  • #9229
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Logo wrote: »
    I'm not religious. However it's difficult for even me to see how being allowed to abort a fetus after 3 months and murdering a child after six months is right

    You are being deliberately obtuse. Firstly, you have to be born to be a child.
    Secondly, abortions at 6 months (which I’d actually call inductions, not abortions) are done so in heartbreaking, tragic circumstances for wanted loved babies.
    Everyone grieves differently. Some women don’t want to spend another 20 weeks explaining to people that the baby won’t make it and don’t want to prolong the agony.
    There is nothing wrong with that.


  • #9230
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    DOS wrote: »
    I've reported that vile statement. And do keep up I'm CoI.


    What was vile about it? :confused:

    You said your church is concerned about life at all stages and I asked what the reaction was when your minister gave a sermon about the Tuam Babies scandal. It was a question not a statement - do keep up.


  • #9231
    fxotoole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    Logo wrote: »
    I'm not religious. However it's difficult for even me to see how being allowed to abort a fetus after 3 months and murdering a child after six months is right

    At 3 months a feotus is not sentient, so there is no ethical problem with carrying out an abortion on a 3 month feotus.

    At 6 months, the feotus is not a child. So no one is talking about murdering children.


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  • #9232
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Logo wrote: »
    I'm sure Hitler used the same logic

    Hitler actually ensured abortion was restricted in germany for german citizens,

    But good job godwin'ing the discussion

    We're talking about IRISH citizens giving women in Ireland the rights to have control over their bodies. ZIP to do with Hitler


  • #9233
    DOS
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 191 ✭✭DOS


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    That’s the problem though. I don’t share your beliefs, why should my healthcare be restricted because you are voting in accordance to your beliefs?
    Especially when I don’t share your faith or your opinion on the topic?

    Your health care is secure and safe in Ireland Susie. Tragedies like Savita occur. That's life. In all aspects of health care things go wrong. We have to think beyond the individual to the overall welfare of the community.


  • #9234
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,858 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    DOS wrote: »
    Just returned from my local Church of Ireland Sunday Service. Amazing to see our church overflowing outside with young and old. Our little community gathered together.

    Our pastor gave a rousing sermon about the value of life from the womb to the tomb. Love for the unborn, babies, todlers, teenagers, women and men, pregnant women, the elderly, the poor and all the vulnerable in society.

    It was greeted with tremendous applause.

    I think most COI people I know will vote for repeal, but do seem quite torn on the issue- like many of the rest of us really. A few of my neighbours seem undecided (pro life and torn on the issue) but their grandmother (she's 90) said she is voting yes as she knows several women who had to go to England and that isn't right with her.
    The COI Bishop in Kilkenny has also stated he is in favour of repeal.


  • #9235
    Dressing gown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭Dressing gown


    Logo wrote: »
    I'm not religious. However it's difficult for even me to see how being allowed to abort a fetus after 3 months and murdering a child after six months is right

    Logo it’s before 12 weeks which is not actually 3 months. And there is no child murder please be careful with your wording. That mess on Claire Byrne has confused so many people as was the intention. By your reasoning we wouldn’t need the 12 week mark at all. Post 12 weeks it is going to be on health grounds only. They haven’t thrashed out the specifics yet but there is no way it will be for flippant reasons up to 6 months.


  • #9236
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,382 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    DOS wrote: »
    Your health care is secure and safe in Ireland Susie. Tragedies like Savita occur. That's life. In all aspects of health care things go wrong. We have to think beyond the individual to the overall welfare of the community.
    I would urge you to read in her shoes the Facebook site, if you think Ireland is doing the right thing for as you put it the 'overall welfare of the community' you are delusional at best.
    Ireland is pretty much outsourcing women's healthcare to other countries, and IMO it has to stop, I will be voting yes, fingers crossed enough decent people in Ireland do the same.


  • #9237
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    DOS wrote: »
    Your health care is secure and safe in Ireland Susie. Tragedies like Savita occur. That's life. In all aspects of health care things go wrong. We have to think beyond the individual to the overall welfare of the community.

    So women who lose their lives or have their health suffer because of the 8th are just collateral damage and we should continue offering them up as sacrifice to keep the ‘bad’ abortions out?

    And my healthcare isn’t safe and isn’t secure. If I get pregnant right now, the treatment I’m getting to stop the development of cancer will stop.
    It won’t continue until I’m no longer pregnant, whether that be via accessing a termination in the UK or giving birth in 9 months.
    Either way I wouldn’t be offered a termination here until I have terminal cancer.

    Savita had a family that loved and adored her and she shouldn’t be dismissed insignificantly as if she doesn’t matter.

    Even one woman suffering because of the 8th is too much, let alone dying.
    It needs to go.
    And your religious beliefs are frankly not a good enough reason for other women who you will never meet receiving compromised healthcare.


  • #9238
    DOS
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 191 ✭✭DOS


    dark crystal wrote: »
    What was vile about it? :confused:

    Firstly it has nothing to do with the CoI.

    Secondly it's idiotic. Who would applaud such a tragedy?

    Thirdly it's using a tragedy for petty point scoring.

    Vile.


  • #9239
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Yes, the CoI was opposed to the 8th back in 1983 because it is sectarian Catholic dogma.


    Now they look to be getting played by the Catholic Church into voting for it to remain to prevent the 12 week proposal. They should clearly state that they want the 8th repealed and then oppose the 12 week legislation.

    Total hypocrisy from the CoI. The 8th is blatantly sectarian as it incorporates Roman Catholic dogma into our constitution. The RCC was the only church to support the introduction of the 8th. If the CoI didn't support the 8th in 1983, why after all the predictions about the harm it would do have come true, are they supporting retaining it?

    I know it's a bit silly applying logic to religion, but I used to have some respect for the CoI having a bit of intellectual honesty, unlike the RCC who would literally argue black is white if it suited their own ends. I have zero respect for the CoI now.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #9240
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    wexie wrote: »
    You're aware of course that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion? You folk seem to have an awful habit of overlooking that little bit.

    it's funny,
    They like to hold up the constitution when it suits them....for example regarding the 8th.
    But they forget that the same constitution gives people the right to have freedom FROM religion.

    Selective about what they hold in high regard.


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  • #9241
    Acosta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭Acosta


    The catholic church may be facilitating the anti abortion campaign in anyway they can, but they're not running it. The biggest religious headbangers in the country are the self appointed leaders of the No campaign. Hopefully the YES side will prevail next week so that, along with many other reasons, we will no longer have to listen, watch and read what those evangelical, puritanical women hating nutters at Iona/Youth Defence have to say about anything............Well until the next time there's a debate about taking religion out of schools and hospitals and the same 3 or 4 assholes are rolled out by the media for balance, because sure this has nothing to do with religion.


This discussion has been closed.
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