8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Martina1991 · 19-05-2018 06:48PM

neonsofa wrote:

It's like they didn't listen to the song or what women have been saying.

It's like they don't listen to any woman who has had a crisis pregnancy.

Oh wait, they don't.

January · 19-05-2018 06:50PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

From the literature I have read, diagnosis of Down Syndrome can be diagnosed as early as 10 weeks.

As for grounds for abortion-if it's a case of abortion on demand up to 12 weeks, there won't need to be a grounds.

The test can be performed at 10 weeks but the results take up to 10 working days to come back, it's also just a screening tool and not a diagnostic tool so further testing such as an amniocentesis would have to performed and they cannot be done before 12 weeks either.

RabbleRouser2k · 19-05-2018 06:51PM

January wrote: »

The test can be performed at 10 weeks but the results take up to 10 working days to come back, it's also just a screening tool and not a diagnostic tool so further testing such as an amniocentesis would have to performed and they cannot be done before 12 weeks either.

Ah, interesting.

neonsofa · 19-05-2018 06:57PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

It's like they don't listen to any woman who has had a crisis pregnancy.

Oh wait, they don't.

Well yeah i mean its kinda their stance not to terminate viable pregnancies regardless of circumstance.

freshpopcorn · 19-05-2018 07:03PM

This is my understanding of how TD's are voting! Please let me know of edits!
Donegal
Pearse Doherty SF Yes.
Joe McHugh FG Undecided.
Pat the Cope Gallagher FF No.
Thomas Pringle Ind Yes.
Charlie McConalogue FF No but is happy to leave it to the public.
Mayo
Enda Kenny FG Unsure.
Michael Ring FG No answer.
Dara Calleary FF Seems to be on the fence.
Lisa Chabers FF Yes.
Sligo-Leitim
Marc Macsharry FF No.
Martin Kenny SF Yes.
Tony McLoughlin FG No.(Best of my knowledge)
Eamon Scanlon FF No.
Cavan-Monaghan
Heather Humphreys FG Yes(Just Today).
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin SF Yes also is retiring from politics.
Niamh Smyth FF No.
Roscommon-Galway
Denis Naughten Ind No unless he's changed his views a lot.
Michael Fitzmaurice Ind No.
Eugene Murphy FF No.
Louth
Declan Breathnace FF No.
Gerry Adams SF Yes.
Imelda Munster SF Yes.
Fergus O'Dowd FG Yes.
Peter Fitzpatrick FG Yes.
Peter Fitzpatrick FG No.(I think).
Galway-West
Éamon Ó Cuív FF No.
Noel Grealish Ind No.
Seán Kyne FG Undecided (Coming around to it)
Catherine Connolly Ind Yes.
Hildegarde Naughton FG Yes.
Galway-East.
Seán Canney Ind was pro-life in the past.
Anne Rabbitte FF Yes.
Ciarán Cannon FG No.
Longford-Westmeath
Robert Troy FF Yes.
Kevin "Boxer" Moran Ind No.
Peter Burke FG Will support if information is provided.
Willie Penrose Lab Probably Yes.
Meath-West
Shane Cassells FF No.
Peadar Tóibín SF No.
Damien English FG can't find much on the guy.
Meath-East.
Thomas Byrne FF No. Will support if passed tough.
Helen McEntee FG Yes.
Regina Doherty FG Yes.
Offaly
Barry Cowen FF Yes
Marcella Corcoran Kennedy FG Yes.
Carol Nolan SF No.
Kildare North
Catherine Murphy SD Yes.
James Lawless FF No.
Bernard Durkan FG Don't think so.
Frank O'Rourke FF No.
Clare
Timmy Dooley FF Yes.
Michael Harty Ind Yes.
Pat Breen supports repeal but has issues with unrestricted access.
Joe Carey FG reflecting on the matter.
Kildare-South
Mark Heydon FG Undecided.
Fiona O'Loughlin FF Yes.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl FF
Laois
Seán Fleming FF No stance.
Brian Stanley SF Yes.
Charles Flanagan FG Yes.
Wicklow and East Carlow
Stephen Donnelly FF Yes.
John Brady SF Yes.
Simon Harris FG Yes.
Andrew Doyle FG Voted to allow refferendum but has difficulties with supporting repeal.
Pat Casey FF No.
Kerry
Martin Ferris SF Yes.
John Brassil FF No.
Michael Healy-Rae Ind No.
Danny Healy-Rae Ind No.
Brendan Griffin FG In favour of repeal but doesn't support 12 weeks.
Limerick County
Niall Collins FF Yes.
Tom Neville FG hasn't made up his mind.
Patrick O'Donovan FG No.
Limerick City.
Willie O'Dea FF No.
Maurice Quinlivan SF Yes.
Michael Noonan FG Raised concerns about removing it.
Jan O'Sullivan Lab Yes.
Tipperary
Michael Mowry Ind No.
Mattie Mcgrath Ind No.
Jackie Cahill FF No.
Seamus Healy Ind Yes.
Alan Kelly Lab Lab Yes.
Carlow-Kilkenny
John McGuinness FF No.
John Paul Phelan FG No.
Kathleen Funchion SF Yes.
Bobby Aylward FF No.
Pat Deering FG support it in some cases but 12 weeks is to far.
Wexford
Brendan Howlin Lab Yes.
James Browne FF Yes(I think).
Mick Wallace Ind Yes.
Michael W. D'Arcy FG Has described himself as anti-abortion in the past.
Paul Kehoe FG Not confirmed stance.
Cork South-West
Margaret Murphy O'Mahony FF No.
Jim Daly FG Yes.
Michael Collins Ind No.
Cork North-West
Michael Creed FG Can't support unrestricted access.
Aindrias Moynihan FF No.
Michael Moynihan FF Hasn't made up his mind.
Cork North- Central
Billy Kelleher FF Yes.
Mick Barry AA-PBP Yes.
Jonathan O'Brien SF Yes.
Dara Murphy FG Yes.(Also wont defend his seat)
Cork South-Cemtal
Michael McGrath FF Well he used be very pro-life.
Micheál Martin FG Yes.
Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire SF Yes.
Simon Coveney FG Yes.
Cork-East
Seán Sherlock Lab Yes.
David Stanton FG Not stated.
Kevin O'Keeffe FF No.
Pat Buckley SF No.
Waterford
Mary Butler FF No.
David Cullinane SF Yes.
John Halligan Ind Yes.
John Deasy FG Couldn't answer question without further information.
Dublin Fingal
Darragh O'Brien FF No.
Clare Daly Ind 4 Change Yes.
Alan Farrell FG Yes.
Brendan Ryan Lab Yes.
Louise O'Reilly SF Yes.
Dublin North-West
Róisín Shortall SD Yes.
Dessie Ellis SF Yes.
Noel Rock SF Yes.
Dublin West
Leo Varadkar FG Yes.
Ruth Coppinger AAA-PBP Yes.
Jack Chambers FF No
Joan Burton Lab Yes.
Dublin Bay-North
Richard Bruton FG Yes.
Seán Haughey FF No.
Tommy Broughan Ind 4 Chnage Yes.
Denise Mitchell SF Yes.
Finian McGrath Ind Yes.(I think)
Dublin Mid-West
Eoin Ó Broin SF Yes.
Frances Fitzgerald FG Yes.
John Curran FF No.
Gino Kenny AAA-PBP Yes.
Dublin South-Central
Aengus Ó Snodaigh SF Yes.
Joan Collins Ind 4 Change Yes.
Catherine Byrne FG Expressed concerns about 12 week limit.
Bríd Smith AAA-PBP Yes.
Dublin Central
Mary Lou McDonald SF Yes.
Paschal Donohoe FG Yes.
Maureen O'Sullivan Ind There's a need for change.
Dublin Bay South
Eamon Ryan GP Yes.
Eoghan Murphy FG Yes.
Jim O'Callaghan FF Yes.
Kate O'Connell FG Yes.
Dublin South-West
John Lahart FF Yes.
Paul Murphy AAA-PBP Yes.
Seán Crowe SF Yes.
Colm Brophy FG Yes.
Katherine Zappone Ind Yes.
Dublin-Rathdown
Shane Ross Ind Undecided.
Josepha Madigan FG Yes.
Catherine Martin GP Yes.
Dun Laoghaire
Sean Barrett FG No.
Richard Boyd Barrett AAA-PBP Yes.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor Probably Yes.
Maria Bailey FG Yes.

sightband · 19-05-2018 07:10PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

This is my understanding of how TD's are voting! Please let me know of edits!
Donegal
Pearse Doherty SF Yes.
Joe McHugh FG Undecided.
Pat the Cope Gallagher FF No.
Thomas Pringle Ind Yes.
Charlie McConalogue FF No but is happy to leave it to the public.
Mayo
Enda Kenny FG Unsure.
Michael Ring FG No answer.
Dara Calleary FF Seems to be on the fence.
Lisa Chabers FF Yes.
Sligo-Leitim
Marc Macsharry FF No.
Martin Kenny SF Yes.
Tony McLoughlin FG No.(Best of my knowledge)
Eamon Scanlon FF No.
Cavan-Monaghan
Heather Humphreys FG Yes(Just Today).
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin SF Yes also is retiring from politics.
Niamh Smyth FF No.
Roscommon-Galway
Denis Naughten Ind No unless he's changed his views a lot.
Michael Fitzmaurice Ind No.
Eugene Murphy FF No.
Louth
Declan Breathnace FF No.
Gerry Adams SF Yes.
Imelda Munster SF Yes.
Fergus O'Dowd FG Yes.
Peter Fitzpatrick FG Yes.
Peter Fitzpatrick FG No.(I think).
Galway-West
Éamon Ó Cuív FF No.
Noel Grealish Ind No.
Seán Kyne FG Undecided (Coming around to it)
Catherine Connolly Ind Yes.
Hildegarde Naughton FG Yes.
Galway-East.
Seán Canney Ind was pro-life in the past.
Anne Rabbitte FF Yes.
Ciarán Cannon FG No.
Longford-Westmeath
Robert Troy FF Yes.
Kevin "Boxer" Moran Ind No.
Peter Burke FG Will support if information is provided.
Willie Penrose Lab Probably Yes.
Meath-West
Shane Cassells FF No.
Peadar Tóibín SF No.
Damien English FG can't find much on the guy.
Meath-East.
Thomas Byrne FF No. Will support if passed tough.
Helen McEntee FG Yes.
Regina Doherty FG Yes.
Offaly
Barry Cowen FF Yes
Marcella Corcoran Kennedy FG Yes.
Carol Nolan SF No.
Kildare North
Catherine Murphy SD Yes.
James Lawless FF No.
Bernard Durkan FG Don't think so.
Frank O'Rourke FF No.
Clare
Timmy Dooley FF Yes.
Michael Harty Ind Yes.
Pat Breen supports repeal but has issues with unrestricted access.
Joe Carey FG reflecting on the matter.
Kildare-South
Mark Heydon FG Undecided.
Fiona O'Loughlin FF Yes.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl FF
Laois
Seán Fleming FF No stance.
Brian Stanley SF Yes.
Charles Flanagan FG Yes.
Wicklow and East Carlow
Stephen Donnelly FF Yes.
John Brady SF Yes.
Simon Harris FG Yes.
Andrew Doyle FG Voted to allow refferendum but has difficulties with supporting repeal.
Pat Casey FF No.
Kerry
Martin Ferris SF Yes.
John Brassil FF No.
Michael Healy-Rae Ind No.
Danny Healy-Rae Ind No.
Brendan Griffin FG In favour of repeal but doesn't support 12 weeks.
Limerick County
Niall Collins FF Yes.
Tom Neville FG hasn't made up his mind.
Patrick O'Donovan FG No.
Limerick City.
Willie O'Dea FF No.
Maurice Quinlivan SF Yes.
Michael Noonan FG Raised concerns about removing it.
Jan O'Sullivan Lab No.
Tipperary
Michael Mowry Ind No.
Mattie Mcgrath Ind No.
Jackie Cahill FF No.
Seamus Healy Ind Yes.
Alan Kelly Lab Lab Yes.
Carlow-Kilkenny
John McGuinness FF No.
John Paul Phelan FG No.
Kathleen Funchion SF Yes.
Bobby Aylward FF No.
Pat Deering FG support it in some cases but 12 weeks is to far.
Wexford
Brendan Howlin Lab Yes.
James Browne FF Yes(I think).
Mick Wallace Ind Yes.
Michael W. D'Arcy FG Has described himself as anti-abortion in the past.
Paul Kehoe FG Not confirmed stance.
Cork South-West
Margaret Murphy O'Mahony FF No.
Jim Daly FG Yes.
Michael Collins Ind No.
Cork North-West
Michael Creed FG Can't support unrestricted access.
Aindrias Moynihan FF No.
Michael Moynihan FF Hasn't made up his mind.
Cork North- Central
Billy Kelleher FF Yes.
Mick Barry AA-PBP Yes.
Jonathan O'Brien SF Yes.
Dara Murphy FG Yes.(Also wont defend his seat)
Cork South-Cemtal
Michael McGrath FF Well he used be very pro-life.
Micheál Martin FG Yes.
Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire SF Yes.
Simon Coveney FG Yes.
Cork-East
Seán Sherlock Lab Yes.
David Stanton FG Not stated.
Kevin O'Keeffe FF No.
Pat Buckley SF No.
Waterford
Mary Butler FF No.
David Cullinane SF Yes.
John Halligan Ind Yes.
John Deasy FG Couldn't answer question without further information.
Dublin Fingal
Darragh O'Brien FF No.
Clare Daly Ind 4 Change Yes.
Alan Farrell FG Yes.
Brendan Ryan Lab Yes.
Louise O'Reilly SF Yes.
Dublin North-West
Róisín Shortall SD Yes.
Dessie Ellis SF Yes.
Noel Rock SF Yes.
Dublin West
Leo Varadkar FG Yes.
Ruth Coppinger AAA-PBP Yes.
Jack Chambers FF No
Joan Burton Lab Yes.
Dublin Bay-North
Richard Bruton FG Yes.
Seán Haughey FF No.
Tommy Broughan Ind 4 Chnage Yes.
Denise Mitchell SF Yes.
Finian McGrath Ind Yes.(I think)
Dublin Mid-West
Eoin Ó Broin SF Yes.
Frances Fitzgerald FG Yes.
John Curran FF No.
Gino Kenny AAA-PBP Yes.
Dublin South-Central
Aengus Ó Snodaigh SF Yes.
Joan Collins Ind 4 Change Yes.
Catherine Byrne FG Expressed concerns about 12 week limit.
Bríd Smith AAA-PBP Yes.
Dublin Central
Mary Lou McDonald SF Yes.
Paschal Donohoe FG Yes.
Maureen O'Sullivan Ind There's a need for change.
Dublin Bay South
Eamon Ryan GP Yes.
Eoghan Murphy FG Yes.
Jim O'Callaghan FF Yes.
Kate O'Connell FG Yes.
Dublin South-West
John Lahart FF Yes.
Paul Murphy AAA-PBP Yes.
Seán Crowe SF Yes.
Colm Brophy FG UD.
Katherine Zappone Ind Yes.
Dublin-Rathdown
Shane Ross Ind Undecided.
Josepha Madigan FG Yes.
Catherine Martin GP Yes.
Dun Laoghaire
Sean Barrett FG No.
Richard Boyd Barrett AAA-PBP Yes.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor Probably Yes.
Maria Bailey FG Yes.

how td’s say they are voting and how they actually vote are completely irrelevant to one another.

pleas advice · 19-05-2018 07:10PM

January wrote: »

The test can be performed at 10 weeks but the results take up to 10 working days to come back, it's also just a screening tool and not a diagnostic tool so further testing such as an amniocentesis would have to performed and they cannot be done before 12 weeks either.

That wouldn't necessarily have to be performed.

freshpopcorn · 19-05-2018 07:11PM

sightband wrote: »

how td’s say they are voting and how they actually vote are completely irrelevant to one another.

I know this, I said similar to how about your friends/family members!(It's a secret ballet at the end of the day)

hatrickpatrick · 19-05-2018 07:18PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I know this, I said similar to how about your friends/family members!(It's a secret ballet at the end of the day)

It won't be a secret ballot for TDs though, and misleading the public about this how you're going to vote on this particular bit of legislation would, I imagine, be a potentially seat-losing move.

tretorn · 19-05-2018 07:18PM

Surely politicans can vote whatever way they want.

This is a matter of conscience for some people, its not like we are voting on some treaty or other, we are literally voting on whether the most vulnerable of us all should be allowed to live or die.
The list of politicans and how they have said they will vote should be deleted.

Overheal · 19-05-2018 07:20PM

tretorn wrote: »

Surely politicans can vote whatever way they want.

This is a matter of conscience for some people, its not like we are voting on some treaty or other, we are literally voting on whether the most vulnerable of us all should be allowed to live or die.
The list of politicans and how they have said they will vote should be deleted.

If their vote isn’t private because of their positions as public representatives, then no it should be fine.

sightband · 19-05-2018 07:21PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I know this, I said similar to how about your friends/family members!(It's a secret ballet at the end of the day)

the most despicable politician throughout this whole charade has been Coveney, "Im for it, but I not really for it"....spineless c*nt. just choose a side with whatever side you will think you will get the most votes and support for regardless of what you actually believe in like the rest of them. pathetic coward. very nearly taoiseach.

19-05-2018 07:22PM

tretorn wrote: »

Surely politicans can vote whatever way they want.

This is a matter of conscience for some people, its not like we are voting on some treaty or other, we are literally voting on whether the most vulnerable of us all should be allowed to live or die.
The list of politicans and how they have said they will vote should be deleted.

Why?

The pro life campaign have questioned politicians on how they intend to vote and published their responses, so there is no difference on such a list being on here.

wexie · 19-05-2018 07:23PM

tretorn wrote: »

Surely politicans can vote whatever way they want.

This is a matter of conscience for some people, its not like we are voting on some treaty or other, we are literally voting on whether the most vulnerable of us all should be allowed to live or die.
The list of politicans and how they have said they will vote should be deleted.

Why?

When you become a politician your stance on many issues becomes of concern to the voting public.

JupiterKid · 19-05-2018 07:26PM

tretorn wrote: »

Surely politicans can vote whatever way they want.

This is a matter of conscience for some people, its not like we are voting on some treaty or other, we are literally voting on whether the most vulnerable of us all should be allowed to live or die.
The list of politicans and how they have said they will vote should be deleted.

I think the way TDs say they will vote will reflect the mood of their constituents. There is a very clear urban/rural divide and also an age/generational one.

freshpopcorn · 19-05-2018 07:28PM

tretorn wrote: »

Surely politicans can vote whatever way they want.

This is a matter of conscience for some people, its not like we are voting on some treaty or other, we are literally voting on whether the most vulnerable of us all should be allowed to live or die.
The list of politicans and how they have said they will vote should be deleted.

Why should the list be deleted?
Media outlets did similar before the marriage referendum.
All the information is available on the web so it's not like it's a secret!

ArmaniJeanss · 19-05-2018 07:30PM

Think you've got Jan O'Sullivan wrong, fairly strong Yes there surely (She even campaigned pro-choice in '83)

freshpopcorn · 19-05-2018 07:34PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Think you've got Jan O'Sullivan wrong, fairly strong Yes there surely (She even campaigned pro-choice in '83)

Correct. I got square eyes at the end!

Grayson · 19-05-2018 08:00PM

I only just read this

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/i-havent-talked-to-john-waters-its-not-on-my-immediate-list-of-things-to-do-eamon-dunphy-on-fing-bollocks-interview-spat-36920404.html

Waters appeared on Dunphy's The Stand podcast to debate the No side of the referendum yesterday. The pair got into an argument after Dunphy asked Waters about the definition of where life begins.

After tension flew back and forth for several minutes, the journalist and columnist decided he had enough and left the interview abruptly.

"You told me this would be a fair interview. It is not a fair interview. You're a bollocks. You're a f***ing bollocks, you can f*** off," Waters said before leaving.

What a cowardly little dick. Can't take a question he thinks will make him look bad so he rage quits and storms off.

On a side note: i was just on my way home and walked past the local catholic church. There was 5 or 6 no campaigners outside with big placards. I walked past all of them and not one tried to talk to me. If they're not going to talk to people why are they there?

19-05-2018 08:30PM

Looks like all my TD's are a yes anyway.

Was out canvassing again today. Still so many undecided. But would love to know are they just saying that.

Allinall · 19-05-2018 08:37PM

Grayson wrote: »

I only just read this

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/i-havent-talked-to-john-waters-its-not-on-my-immediate-list-of-things-to-do-eamon-dunphy-on-fing-bollocks-interview-spat-36920404.html

What a cowardly little dick. Can't take a question he thinks will make him look bad so he rage quits and storms off.

On a side note: i was just on my way home and walked past the local catholic church. There was 5 or 6 no campaigners outside with big placards. I walked past all of them and not one tried to talk to me. If they're not going to talk to people why are they there?

Just as a curiosity, why did you not engage them?

gandalf · 19-05-2018 08:41PM

I saw Colm Brophy DSW out campaigning for yes today so I assume he's no longer undecided.

spookwoman · 19-05-2018 08:41PM

https://twitter.com/meabhhennelly/status/997885677659357184?s=20

https://twitter.com/LibrsyCombativs/status/997901590697783297
Translated
&#55357;&#56865; this afternoon the Compas of @RosaWomen have been attacked by an ultracatholic in Dublin for campaigning for the yes to the right to abortion in the referendum next May 25 in &#55356;&#56814;&#55356;&#56810;.

From @LibrsyCombativs all our solidarity and YES & REPEAL! #RepealThe8th #Referendum2018

gandalf · 19-05-2018 08:42PM

Allinall wrote: »

Just as a curiosity, why did you not engage them?

Would you poke a wasps nest?

Grayson · 19-05-2018 08:48PM

Allinall wrote: »

Just as a curiosity, why did you not engage them?

I had a snackbox in my bag

It wasnt me123 · 19-05-2018 08:51PM

Great list freshpopcorn, I'm delighted to have some idea of how my TDs are voting. I know about Mattie and Alan Kelly & Seamus Healy, didn't know about the criminal Michael Lowry and had some idea about Jackie Cahill. (Are all the Nos auld men)?

Handy information to know so that when they are looking for re-election the electorate will have some information on which to base their vote.

By the way, I don't agree with these conscientious objectors. I vote for them to do a job, I possibly vote for a particular party - I don't care what their personal views are, I didn't elect them to sit in the Dail and engage or not as the case may be because of their personal views on my uterus. IMO, they don't get to be voted into the Dail say on a FF or FG etc ballot, and then decide they are not following FF or FG etc policy.

Ken. · 19-05-2018 08:57PM

So I've made up my mind. I was a no but now I'm a yes. My neighbour got taken out of her house this morning at 7am. She had a seizure. She is just over 3 months pregnant and they think she may have meningitis. They are telling her and her husband that they can't do some tests as it may effect the baby.

I just spoke to the husband and he is just home from the hospital and is looking up flights to his home country to get her treated properly.

FingerDeKat · 19-05-2018 08:58PM

gandalf wrote: »

Would you poke a wasps nest?

or engage with grown adults that worship an re-animated corpse :pac::pac:

freshpopcorn · 19-05-2018 09:00PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Great list freshpopcorn, I'm delighted to have some idea of how my TDs are voting. I know about Mattie and Alan Kelly & Seamus Healy, didn't know about the criminal Michael Lowry and had some idea about Jackie Cahill. (Are all the Nos auld men)?

One thing I have to regarding getting re-elected. Labour were the party who pushed for the marriage referendum and it didn't do much for them in the election!

neonsofa · 19-05-2018 09:00PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Why should the list be deleted?
Media outlets did similar before the marriage referendum.
All the information is available on the web so it's not like it's a secret!

When it comes to tds, apparently they deserve respect and privacy in making a decision that is right for them and their own moral compass. When it comes to women and choice over their own body, not so much.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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