8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Grayson · 19-05-2018 01:29PM

Just her wrote: »

Last time I replied to you some one reported me and I got a warning for saying you were patronising me. Ive answered your question in a previous post, I think it may have disappeared because I can't find it now either, but I don't feel I can respond anymore without incurring a ban, sorry

I don't want to back seat mod but I'm pretty certain you'll be ok for answering a question, especially since it's a yes or no answer with an explanation. A simple rule in forums is attack the post or not the poster. For example "I think that argument is stupid" Vs "I think you are stupid"

Edit: just saw bufords post above. Definitely do what he says

Igotadose · 19-05-2018 01:32PM

Well, so much for getting ESB to remove posters. I e-mailed them after my fencepost with the posters attached was stolen overnight on Wednesday, the same night a bunch of No posters went up out here on the power poles. Their response:
---
At the start of this campaign, ESB Networks asked all participants to refrain from putting posters on our poles. Placing posters in close proximity to live electrical equipment puts referendum campaigners, the general public and our staff at risk.

Despite these requests, posters from both sides of the campaign have been placed on ESB Networks electricity poles.

As a result, and in accordance with custom and practice, ESB Networks has had to deploy staff to remove posters where possible and appropriate.

However, due to their sheer volume, we are not in a position to divert resources from key activities to remove all posters.

Given that electricity poles are neither an appropriate nor a safe location for posters, we will continue to remove them, when necessary, to assure the safety of all users of our service.
---

Yamanoto · 19-05-2018 01:34PM

Igotadose wrote: »

Well, so much for getting ESB to remove posters. I e-mailed them after my fencepost with the posters attached was stolen overnight on Wednesday, the same night a bunch of No posters went up out here on the power poles. Their response:
---
At the start of this campaign, ESB Networks asked all participants to refrain from putting posters on our poles. Placing posters in close proximity to live electrical equipment puts referendum campaigners, the general public and our staff at risk.

Despite these requests, posters from both sides of the campaign have been placed on ESB Networks electricity poles.

As a result, and in accordance with custom and practice, ESB Networks has had to deploy staff to remove posters where possible and appropriate.

However, due to their sheer volume, we are not in a position to divert resources from key activities to remove all posters.

Given that electricity poles are neither an appropriate nor a safe location for posters, we will continue to remove them, when necessary, to assure the safety of all users of our service.
---

Seems like a reasonable enough response to me

swampgas · 19-05-2018 02:57PM

robp wrote: »

Prolife people have always argued women are victims here and my own personal experience would reinforce that view.

That doesn't make any sense to me - if women are the victims, what are they victims of? And who is the perpetrator?

swampgas · 19-05-2018 03:27PM

I'll ask one more time, but to be honest I don't think the anti-repeal posters here want to answer the three questions below.

swampgas wrote: »

I'd like to ask a few questions to anyone who is against repealing the 8th because they don't like the proposed legislation allowing for "on request" terminations up to 12 weeks.

1. Surely most women who want an "on request" termination right now can just travel, as guaranteed by the constitution? How does keeping the 8th, with all the problems it causes, change that?

2. How many weeks would you accept instead of 12? It's easy to say 12 weeks is "too much". Please specify how many weeks you would accept, and please explain why.

3. If your partner/sister/daughter told you they had a crisis pregnancy and were going to take abortion pills, would you report them to the Gárdaí?

If you can't answer these questions, what does that say about your position? Would your answers be so hard to defend?

spookwoman · 19-05-2018 03:54PM

Just her wrote: »

Nitpicking. A brain dead person has no chance of consciousness. A foetus will become conscious provided they are not aborted or miscarried. Abortion is to make sure they die before they can develop further. Turning off life support to a brain dead person because their life has naturally ended is not the same as having an abortion to purposefully end the foetus life. Nitpick away again now.

You posted it no one else did so if someone finds holes in it the only person to blame is yourself.
I'll nitpick some more

Just her wrote: »

A brain dead person has no chance of consciousness

There have been a number of cases where people have been diagnoses as braindead and they came back. That's why I didn't refer to braindead people in my first reply to you. Sam Hemming is one.

Just her wrote: »

A foetus will become conscious provided they are not aborted or miscarried. Abortion is to make sure they die before they can develop further

Operative word is WILL in that sentence it is not conscience until it makes it to a certain point during gestation. But WILL should be POSSIBLY because there is nothing definitive to say it will reach that point which you admit.
You also just said they are not conscious because an abortion stops it before it happens, so what is the issue. It's not a conscience sentient being that is being aborted.
Turing off someones life support is nothing in comparison to having an abortion

sightband · 19-05-2018 04:02PM

Flying Fox wrote: »

Your posts display quite an attitude sightband, could you address the issues bring discussed rather than making digs at people?

What kind of attitude? I’m voting yes, that said I’ve no problem challenging either side on extremist attitudes, intolerance of other people’s beliefs and those that seem to throwing out hyperbole and anecdotal muck of situations which you are recalling that I seriously doubt happened and if they did they did not exactly happen as you say they did. Are you still standing by being attacked by a bible basher quoting scripture just because you wore a yes badge?

You are as bad as one another, as I said before.

martingriff · 19-05-2018 04:21PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

The Groningen Protocol is a thing. It provide euthanasia for children under the age of 1 who are born with hopeless and unbearable suffering (such as Hydrocephalus or Spina Bifida). It goes through extensive review before it's granted, and it's very rare.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the referendum, or abortion and is in no way relevant.

As a 37 year old with Spina Bifida and Hydrocephalus and know many who like me live long and independent life it is not hopeless and unbearable

Ave Sodalis · 19-05-2018 04:31PM

martingriff wrote:

As a 37 year old with Spina Bifida and Hydrocephalus and know many who like me live long and independent life it is not hopeless and unbearable

That's just what's on the reports.

Zubeneschamali · 19-05-2018 04:34PM

martingriff wrote: »

As a 37 year old with Spina Bifida and Hydrocephalus and know many who like me live long and independent life it is not hopeless and unbearable

That's why the protocol is rare - not every baby with these conditions is in unbearable and hopeless pain.

But we are ahead of ourselves - that is for the euthanasia debate, and we have another week of abortion debate first.

fergus1001 · 19-05-2018 04:41PM

robp wrote:

UN never said such. A UN rights committee claimed that. Big difference but yeah prochoicers dont do detail. Yes the mother's. Choice is not always a good thing. In the Netherlands, mothers in some specific cases can abort born infants, is that a good thing?

Simpsons explanation of what's going on:

**super intendent chalmers**
"Yes, and you say you can abort infants in the Netherlands despite the fact that you have absolutely no source to back that up"

**OP**
yes, well, emmm, excuse me for one second

**super intendent chalmers**
"what the hell is going on in there !?!"

**OP**
logical arguments to save the eight amendment?

**super intendent chalmers**
may I see it ?

**OP**
No

gmisk · 19-05-2018 05:01PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0518/964431-referendum-ads/
It's not just me getting these ads... Shady behaviour from the No side as expected

Macha · 19-05-2018 05:37PM

Vicky Phelan has called for a yes vote. I wonder is this will stop the No campaign using the cervical cancer scandal to advocate a no vote?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/vicky-phelan-i-am-voting-yes-for-the-women-of-ireland-36922905.html

spookwoman · 19-05-2018 05:46PM

Pro life on Newstalk - Rape rooms!
Waterford for Yes in the last min
https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Newstalk_Breakfast/Highlights_from_Newstalk_Breakfast/223318/On_the_road_with_the_no_side_in_Waterford

gctest50 · 19-05-2018 05:48PM

.

eviltwin · 19-05-2018 05:50PM

Pro choice campaigners were physically attacked in Dublin this afternoon.

No one hurt but their stall was destroyed. Be careful out there.

Overheal · 19-05-2018 05:51PM

spookwoman wrote: »

Pro life on Newstalk - Rape rooms!
Waterford for Yes in the last min
https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Newstalk_Breakfast/Highlights_from_Newstalk_Breakfast/223318/On_the_road_with_the_no_side_in_Waterford

Huh?

spookwoman · 19-05-2018 05:54PM

Overheal wrote: »

Huh?

Pro life woman says Rape happens do well allow it to happen by having rape rooms.
It was her responve when interviewer said the yes side could say abortion already happen but in the uk

neonsofa · 19-05-2018 05:56PM

Always thought that song by ed sheeran was a weird choice for them to use given the amount of stories of women miscarrying very much wanted babies and their grief being compounded by the 8th amendment. It's like they didn't listen to the song or what women have been saying.

gmisk · 19-05-2018 06:04PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Pro choice campaigners were physically attacked in Dublin this afternoon.

No one hurt but their stall was destroyed. Be careful out there.

Wow that is pretty crappy

Where in dublin were the Gardaí called?

eviltwin · 19-05-2018 06:08PM

gmisk wrote: »

Wow that is pretty crappy
Where in dublin were the Gardaí called?

not sure tbh, just saw the photo of the damage on Facebook.

Gardai are useless, I was attacked in Dublin by someone who took issue with my repeal gear and they had zero interest.

pumpkin4life · 19-05-2018 06:19PM

kanadams123 · 19-05-2018 06:20PM

January wrote: »

WTF are you actually claiming, you can't abort a born infant.

Are you talking about infanticide, can you please provide a source for your wildly outlandish claims?

Im not sure what he was implying here..but i came across i link that mentions over 600 infanticide cases...maybe this is what he meant?
https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/02/650-babies-euthanized-in-the-netherlands-each-year-under-right-to-die-law/amp/

January · 19-05-2018 06:21PM

Breitbart... says it all really.

kanadams123 · 19-05-2018 06:28PM

January wrote: »

Breitbart... says it all really.

Your point being?

gmisk · 19-05-2018 06:28PM

eviltwin wrote: »

not sure tbh, just saw the photo of the damage on Facebook.

Gardai are useless, I was attacked in Dublin by someone who took issue with my repeal gear and they had zero interest.

Would you mind PMing me a link?

Zubeneschamali · 19-05-2018 06:30PM

kanadams123 wrote: »

Your point being?

Everything on that site is a lie.

eviltwin · 19-05-2018 06:33PM

gmisk wrote: »

Would you mind PMing me a link?

will do

kanadams123 · 19-05-2018 06:38PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Everything on that site is a lie.

Haha..ok then! Sorry for that link

RabbleRouser2k · 19-05-2018 06:46PM

erica74 wrote: »

Disability won't be grounds for abortion in Ireland and down syndrome cannot be diagnosed that early (<12 weeks) in pregnancy anyway.

From the literature I have read, diagnosis of Down Syndrome can be diagnosed as early as 10 weeks.

As for grounds for abortion-if it's a case of abortion on demand up to 12 weeks, there won't need to be a grounds.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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