8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Larbre34 · 17-05-2018 06:29PM

Overheal wrote: »

True but now that the big companies have bowed out of allowing advertising there seems to be a surge on No posters (and yes posters being removed) and even vandalism of mountains and stuff.

True. But at the same time, the desperation apparent amongst 'No' seem to have a good few of them on the express service to Crazytown, and the more time they get to crash that train, the better to me.

fxotoole · 17-05-2018 06:29PM

Peninsula wrote: »

I find it amusing how both sides like to pretend the ugly truth doesn't exist.

Quite the opposite. The Yes side acknowledges that we live in a world where abortions happen. They'd just rather a safer environment in which they can happen.

Mrhuth · 17-05-2018 06:29PM

Overheal wrote: »

True but now that the big companies have bowed out of allowing advertising there seems to be a surge on No posters (and yes posters being removed) and even vandalism of mountains and stuff.

I swear I've seen a Google ad today encouraging to vote no so it's false.

erica74 · 17-05-2018 06:31PM

Peninsula wrote: »

I find it amusing how both sides like to pretend the ugly truth doesn't exist.

The fact of the matter is, if abortion becomes legal then it is allowing the unborn to be killed. Depending on your moral compass, we shouldn't be allowing such horrific acts just because it will be done elsewhere. If people went abroad to commit genocide of jews would we say "well there just going to do it abroad anyway, we may as well legalise it here. So their needs to be a better argument to convince no voters to switch sides, it's idiotic to try to convince someone to vote yes with that argument if they believe it is fundamentally wrong to kill the unborn.

Likewise, the no side need to accept that many on the yes side view making young girls go through with pregnancy after rape and incest as worse that killing the unborn.

It is subjective which is worse. On balance I think abortion up to 12 weeks is a good middle ground so I'll be voting yes. Many on the yes said did their absolute best however to convince me to vote no with their nonsense arguments such as the toddler argument "my body my choice", completely missing the point that there is a another body involved with no choice. Then there are the ones who won't give a time limit continually evading the question.

Did you not post pretty much this exact same thing yesterday? Same wording etc?

hatrickpatrick · 17-05-2018 06:31PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

What an utterly pointless exercise in the social media age.

Personally I still think it's a good thing. If we didn't have it, the media would organise more circuses like this week's Claire Byrne fiasco, and it would be a sort of political cage fight on steroids - nasty, cheap, unpleasant Jerry Springer esque stuff. Far better to have the airwaves clear of that kind of sh!te the day before an election or referendum in my opinion. Emotions are bound to run far higher 12 hours before a vote and actually putting people physically into a room together to debate it at that time would just be monumentously ugly and unpleasant for both participant and viewer alike.

Pugzilla · 17-05-2018 06:34PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Emotions are bound to run far higher 12 hours before a vote and actually putting people physically into a room together to debate it at that time would just be monumentously ugly and unpleasant for both participant and viewer alike.

This is the best part of a referendum/election, like Christmas Eve.

sabat · 17-05-2018 06:35PM

spookwoman wrote: »

What has it to do with other countries, that's as bad as but if a man got pregnant argument.

My question was how does it differ from other countries, ie what does it have to do with the 8th amendment. The answer is that is in fact standard best medical practice everywhere in the world. Despite this indisputable fact it has been used several times on this thread as an example of how the 8th amendment affects women's health care in Ireland. This is from The International Atomic Energy Agency, I suppose they're a front for the Iona Institute too?

» What is the ten-day rule and what is its status?

It is important for radiology facilities to have procedures to determine the pregnancy status of female patients of reproductive age before any radiological procedure that could result in a significant dose to the embryo or fetus. The approach is not uniform in all countries and facilities. One approach is the 'ten day rule,' which states that "whenever possible, one should confine the radiological examination of the lower abdomen and pelvis to the 10-day interval following the onset of menstruation."

https://www.iaea.org/resources/rpop/health-professionals/radiology/pregnant-women

Of course not one single poster is going to withdraw their earlier assertions and say "I stand corrected" but I'll get plenty of irrelevant non-sequiturs with 15 thanks each.

Dressing gown · 17-05-2018 06:35PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Personally I still think it's a good thing. If we didn't have it, the media would organise more circuses like this week's Claire Byrne fiasco, and it would be a sort of political cage fight on steroids - nasty, cheap, unpleasant Jerry Springer esque stuff. Far better to have the airwaves clear of that kind of sh!te the day before an election or referendum in my opinion. Emotions are bound to run far higher 12 hours before a vote and actually putting people physically into a room together to debate it at that time would just be monumentously ugly and unpleasant for both participant and viewer alike.

I agree. My blood pressure was so high after CBL was so high I wasn’t able to sleep! I’ll be nervous enough as it is!

Pugzilla · 17-05-2018 06:38PM

How quickly could another referendum be held if the No side win this time? Is there any laws regarding the minimum time before repeating a referendum?

Mrhuth · 17-05-2018 06:41PM

Pugzilla wrote: »

How quickly could another referendum be held if the No side win this time? Is there any laws regarding the minimum time before repeating a referendum?

Will be years, I assume it would be the same as last time.

spookwoman · 17-05-2018 06:42PM

Try_harder wrote: »

The over 55 are more likely to vote No.

Those who are more religious are more likely to vote No

Those without tertiary education are more likely to vote No.

Im none of those three and a yes voter.

You could have all 3 and be no, its just less likely - statistically speaking

My parents are both yes and in their 70's Unfortunately my dad cannot vote because he is english.
Both are not religious they list themselves as atheist in the census records
Yes they have 3rd level education, one arts the other local english tech

FingerDeKat · 17-05-2018 06:43PM

Mrhuth wrote: »

Will be years

and sadly will require the avoidable deaths of women in Irish health care to make it an issue again

Mrhuth · 17-05-2018 06:51PM

The thing with the referendum is that the NO voters are more zealous than the pro repeal ones. They go to extreme lengths and use deception to convince others. I have never voted and don't know how it works but is there any way to prevent them voting multiple times? Will it be supervised? I could imagine if there would be supervision, then some of the zealous no voters would happen to know the person supervising and collaborate to vote multiple times. They will not stop at anything, that much I am sure about. You can be guaranteed that all the no voters will take actually go and cast their vote while the yes side might not.

hatrickpatrick · 17-05-2018 06:52PM

Pugzilla wrote: »

This is the best part of a referendum/election, like Christmas Eve.

In most cases and as a political junkie I absolutely agree, but not with this particular one. It's too messy a subject steeped in too much misery and heartache for those affected to be in any way entertaining - the sh!te on Claire Byrne this week with the heckling and interrupting was just infuriating, for example, and I know people on both sides who found the blatant lack of empathy and respect being displayed by the audience to be more or less unwatchable.

It's one of those issues which in my view doesn't have a lighthearted side to it in the way that run of the mill politics does. But in terms of your average election or referendum, I totally agree, the final days are usually unadulterated craic one way or another.

Pugzilla · 17-05-2018 06:52PM

'We must move quickly. The No voters are relentless. If they are not all destroyed, there will be civil war without end.'

hatrickpatrick · 17-05-2018 06:54PM

Mrhuth wrote: »

The thing with the referendum is that the NO voters are more zealous than the pro repeal ones. They go to extreme lengths and use deception to convince others. I have never voted and don't know how it works but is there any way to prevent them voting multiple times? Will it be supervised? I could imagine if there would be supervision, then some of the zealous no voters would happen to know the person supervising and collaborate to vote multiple times. They will not stop at anything, that much I am sure about. You can be guaranteed that all the no voters will take actually go and cast their vote while the yes side might not.

It's very difficult to get away with that in Ireland because we have polling cards and potential Id requirements - you have to vote at a particular polling centre, using a polling card, and they're generally small and well-staffed enough that someone showing up more than once would immediately be recognised from earlier in the day. I'm pretty sure you have to leave your polling card behind when you're done voting as well?

freshpopcorn · 17-05-2018 06:54PM

Pugzilla wrote: »

How quickly could another referendum be held if the No side win this time? Is there any laws regarding the minimum time before repeating a referendum?

Well I read a headline Yesterday and Leo said that they wouldn't be another referendum. (I think) This wouldn't mean that a future government wouldn't have one.
It's hard to know to be honest. Would a new government hold a referendum on something the public rejected?
I could see another referendum of it did fail but it could have something such as writing a twelve week rule into the constitution.

spookwoman · 17-05-2018 06:55PM

sabat wrote: »

My question was how does it differ from other countries, ie what does it have to do with the 8th amendment. The answer is that is in fact standard best medical practice everywhere in the world. Despite this indisputable fact it has been used several times on this thread as an example of how the 8th amendment affects women's health care in Ireland. This is from The International Atomic Energy Agency, I suppose they're a front for the Iona Institute too?

https://www.iaea.org/resources/rpop/health-professionals/radiology/pregnant-women

Of course not one single poster is going to withdraw their earlier assertions and say "I stand corrected" but I'll get plenty of irrelevant non-sequiturs with 15 thanks each.

Did you not read my post I can get a scan through A+E but as an outpatient I don't get the same treatment. I also said who has a regular 28 day cycle. Why can't women be believed when they say they are not pregnant. Why can we not sign a waver to say I am not and that I want a scan because this is my health.
Just because someone goes through outpatient doesn't mean it is not urgent or serious but many clinicians put the imaginary life of an imaginary foetus above the health of the patient.

erica74 · 17-05-2018 06:59PM

Is it true that you can't wear any badges or slogan jumpers or anything to the polling station?

Frank Bullitt · 17-05-2018 06:59PM

So my folks voting cards arrived but no sign of mine.

Do you need the polling card or is ID ok for voting? I checked the register and I am on it.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2018 07:01PM

Mrhuth wrote: »

While I wish the yes would win, I don't think we have a chance.

I think No still has a chance, but let's not get carried away.

Yesterdays IPSOS/MRBI poll was 58/42. In the SSM referendum, Yes were similarly losing ground in the runup, their last poll was 70-30, result was 62-38.

Suggests a narrow win for Yes in my book.

Larbre34 · 17-05-2018 07:01PM

Just caught up with the John Waters thing. How gloriously awful.

Pugzilla · 17-05-2018 07:01PM

spookwoman wrote: »

Did you not read my post I can get a scan through A+E but as an outpatient I don't get the same treatment. I also said who has a regular 28 day cycle. Why can't women be believed when they say they are not pregnant. Why can we not sign a waver to say I am not and that I want a scan because this is my health.
Just because someone goes through outpatient doesn't mean it is not urgent or serious but many clinicians put the imaginary life of an imaginary foetus above the health of the patient.

Patients will try to sue doctors for anything. They practice defensive medicine for that reason. Give a CT scan (a big dose of radiation) to someone who happens to be pregnant and you've opened the door to a multi million euro lawsuit. When people see how lucrative it can be, then they'll take advantage of the system.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2018 07:02PM

Gintonious wrote: »

So my folks voting cards arrived but no sign of mine.

Do you need the polling card or is ID ok for voting? I checked the register and I am on it.

ID is fine, the polling card is not required.

Note the exact station details from the register, it will tell you which desk to go to. It's on the card if you get it, but checktheregister has it too.

jluv · 17-05-2018 07:02PM

don corleone wrote: »

Is there any voters in here from the yes side that have a problem with abortion up to 12 weeks when the mother and baby are perfectly healthy but the mother just doesnt want a baby at that particular time.
I have a problem with this. but I am voting yes as I believe all of the other positives of repealing far outweigh this issue. Still, its an issue for me nonetheless. Wondering if anyone feels the same.

This is exactly where I stand.I don't want the 8th amendment,but I'm also not in favour of abortion on demand either. So my stance is to vote Yes to repeal the 8th and then support any group who will support not having abortion on demand to 12 weeks. I can't see any other way of doing it. It's a dilemma for me too..

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2018 07:03PM

erica74 wrote: »

Is it true that you can't wear any badges or slogan jumpers or anything to the polling station?

Correct, no campaigning of any sort inside the polling station.

B0jangles · 17-05-2018 07:03PM

erica74 wrote: »

Is it true that you can't wear any badges or slogan jumpers or anything to the polling station?

Yes - nothing that could be construed as campaiging for either side allowed

Larbre34 · 17-05-2018 07:04PM

No harm to remind folk...

If you get a polling card, well done you, BUT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BRING SOME I.D. TOO!

Frank Bullitt · 17-05-2018 07:04PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

ID is fine, the polling card is not required.

Note the exact station details from the register, it will tell you which desk to go to. It's on the card if you get it, but checktheregister has it too.

Excellent news, I was worried there.

Zubeneschamali · 17-05-2018 07:05PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I could see another referendum of it did fail but it could have something such as writing a twelve week rule into the constitution.

No, we will not be writing another dogs dinner into the Constitution. For reasons, see the reports of the CA and Oireachteas committee. We'll wait 5 years for some more of the older voters to die off and go again.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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