Outright lies in Campaign

NuMarvel · 12-05-2018 10:32AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

I find it funny how you all believe that all abortions will be done within our HSE

They won't. The majority of abortions will happen at the primary care level, and won't involve frontline HSE staff.

NuMarvel · 12-05-2018 10:38AM

Swanner wrote: »

I don’t get this either.

The HSE is on its knees and still falling..

This is a wet dream for private clinics..

They already have the figures and they know the demand is there..

Of course they’ll set up shop..

The majority of abortions will be medical abortions, and will involve staff at the primary care level; GPs, family planning clinics, etc.

The remaining abortions will be surgical, and there won't be sufficient numbers of those to justify the investment in infrastructure and personnel to set up even just one dedicated surgical abortion facility, never mind a network.

Some of ye really need to take a lesson in health economics to understand how the private health system actually works, and what private health services need in order to turn a profit.

The Bishop Basher · 12-05-2018 10:43AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

The remaining abortions will be surgical, and there won't be sufficient numbers of those to justify the investment in infrastructure and personnel to set up even just one dedicated surgical abortion facility, never mind a network.

So where do the resources for these come from ?

I thought Irish women were travelling in large numbers to clinics in the UK..

Is this a lie now ?

NuMarvel · 12-05-2018 11:25AM

Swanner wrote: »

So where do the resources for these come from ?

I thought Irish women were travelling in large numbers to clinics in the UK..

Is this a lie now ?

A large number traveling doesn't equate to a sufficient number to justify the construction and operation of private facilities.

Only 2% of abortions in the UK are privately funded. If you applied that to estimates of Ireland's abortion statistics, that would be roughly 100 abortions per annum. If you think that's enough to keep a private facility going, you really don't understand the economics of private health services.

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-05-2018 11:50AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yes there are a mix on both sides but I find most of the rabid YES side are uni/3rd level educated brainwashed into thinking socialism/communism is the way to go. An illness imported from America

So are you saying that most of the NO side are uneducated hicks?

Who died because of the 8th amendment?

Here we go, another who will claim that the 8th had played no part on the death of Savitta :rolleyes:

You really think abortions are going to be done in an already overworked/underfunded HSE? The abortion clinics from the UK/USA will be hovering around at the minute waiting to put in bids

Do you think there is a big enough market for these clinics to set up? Remember it's 12 weeks which means the majority of abortions will be via the 2 pill system. Hardly going to put a strain on the HSE is it?

ancapailldorcha · 12-05-2018 06:02PM

Mod: Serious discussion only please.

Eric Cartman · 13-05-2018 06:12PM

The absolute distortion and sexism from the yes campaign since the google ads ban has been immense, constantly sharing cherry picked and cropped photos of old men holding vote no signs alongside pictures of women holding yes signs trying to play identity politics with this game.

Completely ignoring that Cora Sherlock is at the forefront of the campaign, the heavy involvement of Katie Ascough and the majority women involved in the campaign , trying to pretend its a small group of men huddled in a room.

Seth Brundle · 13-05-2018 06:29PM

Not sure where you're looking Eric but I haven't seen any of those.

Macha · 13-05-2018 06:34PM

Sorry but that was an absolute own goal. You don't need a masters in public relations to have known it wasn't a good idea. But it wasn't the official yes campaign sharing the photoshopped images so it's incorrect to accuse it.

And, eh, you think the No campaign doesn't make sure it doesn't have the maximum number of women front and centre of every debate and photo? Pff...identity politics...

Overheal · 13-05-2018 06:52PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

I would say the majority of YES campaigners have 2 things in common
1: Been to uni/3rd level education
2: Socialist/communist leaning

If you are on the YES campaign just for 1 minute forget about what you've been told/taught & think
1: Why are all the political parties in agreement when they usually cant agree on anything
2: Do we really want private run businesses whose sole purpose is to make money aborting foetuses
Numerous examples that they are more interested in aborting than saving the child.

Ah that awl “liberal brainwashing” conspiracy. Which doesn’t seem to fit good as a narrative given the wide array of conservative personalities and politicians and all that have college backgrounds.

Could it be that the parties agree with something that makes sense?

Not familiar with many instances of private businesses with the aborted fetus business model. They even tried this gag with Planned Parenthood and fell flat on it. While clinics would have to charge money for these services in the majority of situations you’re more likely to find because abortion in Ireland only amounts to a few thousand a year, that those businesses cannot rely on that sole source of income to operate.

GhostyMcGhost · 13-05-2018 06:58PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Completely ignoring that Cora Sherlock is at the forefront of the campaign, the heavy involvement of Katie Ascough

Oh I'm not ignoring that! I was on the fence but those 2 firmly made my decision a lot easier

Whatever they say you can be certain the truth is the opposite

Seth Brundle · 14-05-2018 07:02AM

For those that question whether the 8th is responsible for deaths or that cancer treatment doesn't interfere with pregnancy...
Mother might still be alive but for Eighth Amendment – gynaecologist
Michelle Harte missed many weeks of cancer treatment due to Eighth – Prof Louise Kenny

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/mother-might-still-be-alive-but-for-eighth-amendment-gynaecologist-1.3493958

Hotblack Desiato · 14-05-2018 10:32AM

Rodin wrote: »

That tragic young woman's death was a missed sepsis

Sepsis which only developed because she was denied an abortion of a foetus which was already dying.

Help!!!! wrote: »

You really think abortions are going to be done in an already overworked/underfunded HSE?

And if they don't have abortions, how much interaction with the health service do you think pregnant women have?

Sheesh.

Help!!!! · 15-05-2018 08:12PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

They won't. The majority of abortions will happen at the primary care level, and won't involve frontline HSE staff.

Abortion clinics will be introduced into Ireland, same as any other country
If you believe it wont then you might as well believe the Leo is the best Taoiseach Ireland ever had

Help!!!! · 15-05-2018 08:13PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

The majority of abortions will be medical abortions, and will involve staff at the primary care level; GPs, family planning clinics, etc.

The remaining abortions will be surgical, and there won't be sufficient numbers of those to justify the investment in infrastructure and personnel to set up even just one dedicated surgical abortion facility, never mind a network.

Some of ye really need to take a lesson in health economics to understand how the private health system actually works, and what private health services need in order to turn a profit.

Maybe some of us have our eyes open & can see we will have the same abortion business as in any other country

Help!!!! · 15-05-2018 08:17PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So are you saying that most of the NO side are uneducated hicks?

Here we go, another who will claim that the 8th had played no part on the death of Savitta

Nope

& Nope, a termination would have happened if the infection was observed

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/information/the-tragic-death-of-savita-halappanavar/

Help!!!! · 15-05-2018 08:20PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

For those that question whether the 8th is responsible for deaths or that cancer treatment doesn't interfere with pregnancy...
Mother might still be alive but for Eighth Amendment – gynaecologist
Michelle Harte missed many weeks of cancer treatment due to Eighth – Prof Louise Kenny

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/mother-might-still-be-alive-but-for-eighth-amendment-gynaecologist-1.3493958

Cancer treatment does not affect the foetue/baby so she should have got treatment

Help!!!! · 15-05-2018 08:23PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Sepsis which only developed because she was denied an abortion of a foetus which was already dying.

If the infection had been seen a termination could have happened
Why do people think the doctors are not allowed terminate the baby if the mother is at risk? Its in the constitution

NuMarvel · 15-05-2018 08:42PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Maybe some of us have our eyes open & can see we will have the same abortion business as in any other country

Even if there were 10,000 abortions a year, double the current estimated number, there still wouldn't be sufficient business to open up dedicated abortion clinics. The majority of abortions will be via the primary care system, and will probably happen at home if we follow the same practice as Scotland.

In fact Scotland is a good comparator. It has a slightly larger population that use, in 2016 had 12,000 abortions, and yet there is no dedicated private clinics in Scotland. The closest they have is one BPAS clinic in the entire country. But BPAS isn't a for profit business, it's a not-for-profit charity, and is mainly funded by the NHS, i.e. the public health system.

I know none of this will make any difference to you, because you're using the Life Institute as a source for your claims in other posts. But the fact remains that there's no evidence to suggest there will be any private abortion clinics in Ireland, and plenty of evidence to suggest there won't.

gctest50 · 15-05-2018 08:49PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Nope

& Nope, a termination would have happened if the infection was observed

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/information/the-tragic-death-of-savita-halappanavar/

miss this part ?

Prof Sir Sabaratnam Arulkumaran :

Savita Halappanavar died as a direct result of Ireland's restrictive abortion laws and not simply because she contracted sepsis, the author of the independent report into her death has said.

Anybody, any junior doctor, would have said this is a sepsis condition, we must terminate.

"She did have sepsis. However, if she had a termination in the first days as requested, she would not have had sepsis. If she had the termination when asked for it, the sepsis would not arise.

"We would never have heard of her and she would be alive today," he said.

Macha · 15-05-2018 08:52PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Maybe some of us have our eyes open & can see we will have the same abortion business as in any other country

Please clarify how many abortions there will be, how much they will cost, and how that adds up to a business model.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Nope

& Nope, a termination would have happened if the infection was observed

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/information/the-tragic-death-of-savita-halappanavar/

Help!!!! wrote: »

If the infection had been seen a termination could have happened
Why do people think the doctors are not allowed terminate the baby if the mother is at risk? Its in the constitution

Because doctors don't work with a copy of the constitution in their hands.

"Savita Halappanavar died as a direct result of Ireland's restrictive abortion laws and not simply because she contracted sepsis, the author of the independent report into her death has said."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/author-of-savita-halappanavar-report-says-8th-amendment-contributed-to-her-death-810432.html

Help!!!! wrote: »

Cancer treatment does not affect the foetue/baby so she should have got treatment

That depends entirely on the type of cancer and the type of treatment. Even some scans to the abdomen can affect the foetus.

Itssoeasy · 15-05-2018 08:58PM

I decided to watch primetime and the no person said that abortion will be legalised to term. That isn't correct as far as I've read. When a fetus is viable it will delivered as the same as a premature baby.

Itssoeasy · 15-05-2018 09:00PM

I didn't watch the CB live debate last night and it seems I made the right decision looking online. The piece on prime Time was short but my question was there talking over each other like there was just now.

Ave Sodalis · 15-05-2018 09:16PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I decided to watch primetime and the no person said that abortion will be legalised to term. That isn't correct as far as I've read. When a fetus is viable it will delivered as the same as a premature baby.

It's not correct at all, and I'm pretty certain the No person is fully aware of that. You are right, after viability, there will be a delivery attempt. Currently, there is no proposed legislation for abortion after viability outside the current Protection of Life during Pregnancy (i.e. in the case of a risk to the life of the mother), and only very specific circumstances after 12 weeks.

spookwoman · 15-05-2018 09:17PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Cancer treatment does not affect the foetue/baby so she should have got treatment

every cancer society site and even prolife sites say that chemo etc can cause problems in the first trimester and its best avoided

Ave Sodalis · 15-05-2018 09:21PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Cancer treatment does not affect the foetue/baby so she should have got treatment

In a few cancer cases, (certain types, certain stages and often in the last trimester), you are right. However, this is not true across the board, and there are many cases of where a woman has been advised to not get pregnant or to travel to the UK if she can.

blanch152 · 15-05-2018 09:41PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Cancer treatment does not affect the foetue/baby so she should have got treatment

Another huge lie of the NO campaign.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2018 09:53PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

If the infection had been seen a termination could have happened

She should have been given a termination to PREVENT infection from happening. This is medical best practice in this situation. This is what would have happened in any other developed country, except here and (probably) Malta.

Instead the 8th forced the doctors to gamble with her health and life, putting her at huge risk of sepsis and then hoping (and failing, in this case) to treat it in time.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Nope

& Nope, a termination would have happened if the infection was observed

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/information/the-tragic-death-of-savita-halappanavar/

Life Institute link. No credibility whatsoever.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Cancer treatment does not affect the foetue/baby so she should have got treatment

Who told you that? The Life Institute again?

Nettle Soup · 15-05-2018 10:04PM

The No side is a very varied group of people but the common motto seems to be; win at all costs.

I really hope there are some good investigative documentaries after the referendum because I am very surprised at some of the tactics employed by No.

I notice the No posters far far outnumber the Yes posters in Galway in the past week. I honestly think they are a waste of money for both sides but one side is spending a lot more than the other.

Overheal · 15-05-2018 10:09PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Cancer treatment does not affect the foetue/baby so she should have got treatment

Sorry but that's not always the case. If it were, why are women constantly pre-screened at treatment visits for pregnancy?

Outright lies in Campaign

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