8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

spookwoman · 09-05-2018 04:35PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

What's with the PMs from pro-life folks who don't post on this thread? What does this achieve. Leave me alone, please.

Mines not the brightest they liked my post

eviltwin · 09-05-2018 04:35PM

obi604 wrote: »

if the vote is passed and its a yes, how long before wee see clinics setup in ireland. days, weeks months ?

There will be no clinics, it will be GP and maternity hospital led

Triceratops Ballet · 09-05-2018 04:36PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

It is a life changing affair, but it doesn't have to be a bad one. Its a huge change yes.

Healthy, as in physically and mentally fit.

How would you propose to measure that? based on the fact that a lot of life altering complications can't be detected pre 12 weeks?

Walter Bishop · 09-05-2018 04:36PM

obi604 wrote: »

if the vote is passed and its a yes, how long before wee see clinics setup in ireland. days, weeks months ?

Months at a minimum for legislation, this is mentioned in an article in today's Times, and if the government does not last until the end of the year (which is fairly likely) it will take longer as the next government would have to decide when to restart the process.

SusieBlue · 09-05-2018 04:36PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its a sad loser too afraid to join in on the discussion here, should be pitied more than anything really.

AtomicHorror · 09-05-2018 04:36PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yet they thank me. So polite in their intrusions.

ohnonotgmail · 09-05-2018 04:38PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

What's with the PMs from pro-life folks who don't post on this thread? What does this achieve. Leave me alone, please.

I'm starting to feel really left out.

....... · 09-05-2018 04:38PM

This post has been deleted.

Zubeneschamali · 09-05-2018 04:39PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm starting to feel really left out.

Please, shadowy pro-life PM army, feel free to leave me off your list.

yourdeadwright · 09-05-2018 04:39PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Have you read the research?

They explain where they get their figures:

Methods
We requested abortion data from government agencies and compiled data from international sources and nationally representative studies. With data for 1069 country-years, we estimated incidence using a Bayesian hierarchical time series model whereby the overall abortion rate is a function of the modelled rates in subgroups of women of reproductive age defined by their marital status and contraceptive need and use, and the sizes of these subgroups.

[/quote]
Is the attached not just saying abortion rates in the first world have decreased on a whole ?
Where does it tell us after abortion is legalised, abortions have decreased ? I can't see that part , if its there I have missed it

Triceratops Ballet · 09-05-2018 04:40PM

obi604 wrote: »

if the vote is passed and its a yes, how long before wee see clinics setup in ireland. days, weeks months ?

There's no knowing, as repealing the 8th doesn't make abortion legal. The legislation still has to be passed by the oireachtas, if the government falls who knows how long it would take, if the next government even brings in legislation at all.
If the legislation is introduced the service will largely be provided by GP's, clinics like the Well Woman centre and in existing maternity hospitals where women who are having abortions post 12 weeks for the likes of FFA will be treated by the physicians who were already looking after them.

patrickSTARR · 09-05-2018 04:40PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

It doesn't have to be, but why is it you that says that they MUST change their life? Why shouldn't they have a say in it?

If it's going in the constitution, you're going to need a bit more than that.

What about rob's case, where they actively WANT a child. But due to an abnomaly that affects about 1% of the population, a healthy woman has a high degree of miscarrying, due to the implantation being wrong. It's a healthy woman, it's a healthy fetus until it miscarries, should they be forced to go through miscarriage after miscarriage until it "sits" right? How will you account for that in the Constitution?

Or those like my sister in law, 3 surgeries on her knees, but otherwise fit as a fiddle. Another pregnancy (which she's going through now) and it's possible that she'll be wheelchair bound. But she won't know until after the pregnancy. Should they be forced into it? How does that fit into the Constitution? She's healthy, the fetus is healthy, but there's a risk to her health.

Or any one of a thousand reasons why a pregnancy can affect a womans health. How will you account for that, in the Constitution?

In that case above, I agree the 8th needs to be repealed, Ive never said it shouldn't.

However, I do think more abortions will happen here for reasons not medical and I don't agree with that, hence my leaning towards no.

kylith · 09-05-2018 04:40PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

1) The unborn child should still have the right to life despite the horrible situation
2) Same as above but less horrible situation.
3) Its happened, the right to life should still stand
4) 100 percent and its a disgrace that so many fathers in Ireland, and the world, are absent from their childs lives

So a rape victim should be punished for 9 months, at least.
And a teenage girl who may not be physically mature enough to give birth without damaging herself should have to do it anyway.
And a woman who has taken all precautions should have to have the child she never wanted.

Martina1991 · 09-05-2018 04:40PM

AtomicHorror wrote:

What's with the PMs from pro-life folks who don't post on this thread? What does this achieve. Leave me alone, please.

What are they saying.

Wrongway1985 · 09-05-2018 04:41PM

ASISEEIT wrote: »

A lot of yes voters a bit jittery. If you dont turn this soon you are heading for a no. Remember trump and brexit. Bad decisions i grant you but not expected .
The constitution will say nothing about 12 weeks. Nothing about limiting it there

Me included am jittery it has to be said.

Those comparisons are varying though Trumps opponent was probably the only person he had a chance of beating her selection was the Democrats fault but the vote for change there isn't definate it's inevitable he will be ousted in a few years.

Brexit is experimental there is conflicting predictions for the future there. This we have had 35 years to show us the eighth is utterly flawed and needs gotten rid.

ohnonotgmail · 09-05-2018 04:42PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

In that case above, I agree the 8th needs to be repealed, Ive never said it shouldn't.

However, I do think more abortions will happen here for reasons not medical and I don't agree with that, hence my leaning towards no.

so you put your feelings over the health of women? what a charmer.

RobertKK · 09-05-2018 04:42PM

seamus wrote: »

Because it's challenging the direction by SIPO, as anybody is entitled to do.

Of course, the effect is the same; until that issue is decided, the money is not being spent. So that should make you happy.

The panic from the No side about the ban on advertising is incredibly telling in terms of where they believed their battleground to be, and how their funds were being directed.

Yes it is telling that Yes side has been doing an awful job and needed the help from US firms to ban advertising that comes from Ireland.
It doesn't affect Yes as they are too busy painting murals on walls...some are in the 21st century with online advertising and others are not in this century yet and are still painting walls as the modern form of campaigning.

patrickSTARR · 09-05-2018 04:43PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Rape, armed robbery and murder harm living citizens and are rightly illegal. Absolutely no comparison.

See that's where we differ, I believe terminating a healthy unborn child should be rightly illegal too.

While its different to those above, its should no be accepted by society.

Triceratops Ballet · 09-05-2018 04:43PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

In that case above, I agree the 8th needs to be repealed, Ive never said it shouldn't.

However, I do think more abortions will happen here for reasons not medical and I don't agree with that, hence my leaning towards no.

Have you any statistical basis to back that assertion up? anything?

SusieBlue · 09-05-2018 04:43PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

In that case above, I agree the 8th needs to be repealed, Ive never said it shouldn't.

However, I do think more abortions will happen here for reasons not medical and I don't agree with that, hence my leaning towards no.

Can you not see how arrogant that is?

You are essentially offering up these people in difficult, heartbreaking situations as collateral damage in order to keep the "bad" abortions you don't agree with out.

Sofiztikated · 09-05-2018 04:43PM

obi604 wrote: »

if the vote is passed and its a yes, how long before wee see clinics setup in ireland. days, weeks months ?

After a Yes vote, the legislation has to pass through the Dail. And that could take |PIECE OF STRING| length of time. It might not even get through it.

But the service proposed is GP and Maternity Hospital led.

Zubeneschamali · 09-05-2018 04:44PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

There's no knowing, as repealing the 8th doesn't make abortion legal. The legislation still has to be passed by the oireachtas, if the government falls who knows how long it would take, if the next government even brings in legislation at all.

It would be a brave Government that refuses to enact legislation in line with the CA recommendations on which the referendum is based if the Referendum is passed.

And we don't elect our politicians for courage. They will hide behind the result and say that had a "duty" to pass it, whoever is in charge.

patrickSTARR · 09-05-2018 04:44PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

How would you propose to measure that? based on the fact that a lot of life altering complications can't be detected pre 12 weeks?

Maybe it should be extended beyond 12 weeks in the case of medical complications

eviltwin · 09-05-2018 04:44PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

See that's where we differ, I believe terminating a healthy unborn child should be rightly illegal too.

While its different to those above, its should no be accepted by society.

And yet a massive amount of normal, everyday, good people believe it should be legal.

What does that tell us?

robarmstrong · 09-05-2018 04:44PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes it is telling that Yes side has been doing an awful job and needed the help from US firms to ban advertising that comes from Ireland.
It doesn't affect Yes as they are too busy painting murals on walls...some are in the 21st century with online advertising and others are not in this century yet and are still painting walls as the modern form of campaigning.

Hi Bob,

See below -

robarmstrong wrote: »

You can hardly talk about anyone else having no evidence, you were chased for pages to provide factual evidence represented by statistics and reports to back up your ridiculous claim that most of the women who abort due to grounds of mental health (97%) do so for lifestyle choices and career-related reasons.

You have yet to provide anything to back up your speculation, I doubt you will.

Also - I'd much rather paint on walls than post up a constant stream of lies, wouldn't you? Others are not in this century I will agree with you on that, when are you joining us so?

....... · 09-05-2018 04:45PM

This post has been deleted.

RobertKK · 09-05-2018 04:45PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Have you any statistical basis to back that assertion up? anything?

It happened elsewhere, it is absolute sense what he is posting.

Zubeneschamali · 09-05-2018 04:45PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

See that's where we differ, I believe terminating a healthy unborn child should be rightly illegal too.

While its different to those above, its should no be accepted by society.

Its accepted now - we passed the 13th and 14th to make it legal.

uptherebels · 09-05-2018 04:45PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes it is telling that Yes side has been doing an awful job and needed the help from US firms to ban advertising that comes from Ireland.
It doesn't affect Yes as they are too busy painting murals on walls...some are in the 21st century with online advertising and others are not in this century yet and are still painting walls as the modern form of campaigning.

Yes shame on Facebook for stopping all those completely factual and accurate adverts

Triceratops Ballet · 09-05-2018 04:45PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It would be a brave Government that refuses to enact legislation in line with the CA recommendations on which the referendum is based if the Referendum is passed.

And we don't elect our politicians for courage. They will hide behind the result and say that had a "duty" to pass it, whoever is in charge.

oh listen I know that, there'll be riots in the streets if they don't pass something but it might not be what's currently proposed, and it depends what promises an incoming government might make to get in

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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