8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

joe40 · 08-05-2018 11:37AM

The_Brood wrote: »

bootpaws wrote: »

You seem to be answering a question nobody asked. At 12 weeks, it is not a baby, and that is a fact.

In your own words, if left uninterrupted it will, over the course of 9 months, develop into one. That’s never been the discussion.

If a woman, within a certain timeframe before the foetus has a brain or developed nervous system, decides to interrupt that development because she needs to, then that is her decision and her business.

What is your point?

Absolutely cannot understand then why it should be wrong for parents to let their 1 month old baby die? Why would it be anyone else's business what they do?

If someone let a 1 month baby die, then I think they should go to jail.
Do you think that someone who has an abortion, or a doctor that performs an abortion should go to jail.
If your answer is yes, then we will have to forego any possibility of a further discussion.
If the answer is no then you are also differentiating between a baby and a foetus.

kylith · 08-05-2018 11:38AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I spoke to a young man the weekend who is adopted ,
He meet his biology mother 3 years ago and she told him if abortion was legal here he would not be here, I have to say to hear it from him left an effect on me,
I'm not voting so I'm nit one side or the other , But there is certainly cases for both ,
It

you wouldn't Be here if your parents had sex at 8pm instead of 9pm, or on Wednesday instead of Thursday.

yourdeadwright · 08-05-2018 11:39AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I spoke to a young man the weekend who is adopted ,
He meet his biology mother 3 years ago and she told him if abortion was legal here he would not be here, I have to say to hear it from him left an effect on me,
I'm not voting so I'm nit one side or the other , But there is certainly cases for both ,
It

I really hate this argument. He would also not been here if she had taken the morning after pill. Or if she had ovulated at a different time that month. Or if she had a miscarriage.
We can't go down the rabbit hole of "what if's"... His life wasn't saved because of the 8th amendment, because 4k abortions happen yearly despite them being illegal presently.
She didn't abort him because she didn't want to. If she had really wanted to, she would have found a way.
If circumstances were even slightly different, a lot of us might never have been conceived or born. Still not a good enough reason to take choice away from women.

No she didn't abort him because she couldn't afford to go to England there where his mothers words.
Why do you get to just make up something that not true to a line with your argument ?

S

Sofiztikated · 08-05-2018 11:39AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I spoke to a young man the weekend who is adopted ,
He meet his biology mother 3 years ago and she told him if abortion was legal here he would not be here, I have to say to hear it from him left an effect on me,
I'm not voting so I'm nit one side or the other , But there is certainly cases for both ,
It

My mother said that if she knew the pain and suffering both she and I have been through, she might have considered an abortion.

Then again, she might have had a miscarriage, and I wouldn't be here. Or a sperm might have been more active than the one that was, and I wouldn't be here.

Makes no difference to the effect of the 8th on women.

eviltwin · 08-05-2018 11:39AM

If I hadn't had an abortion my son wouldn't be here so it works both ways.

SusieBlue · 08-05-2018 11:40AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

Save the 8th

No response to being called out for making inaccurate homophobic accusations, no?

PlaneSpeeking · 08-05-2018 11:41AM

joe40 wrote: »

If someone let a 1 month baby die, then I think they should go to jail.
Do you think that someone who has an abortion, or a doctor that performs an abortion should go to jail.
If your answer is yes, then we will have to forego any possibility of a further discussion.
If the answer is no then you are also differentiating between a baby and a foetus.

I made the mistake of telling someone that medically the term is embryo until Week 8.

You'd think I'd burned down a nursery.

yourdeadwright · 08-05-2018 11:41AM

kylith wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I spoke to a young man the weekend who is adopted ,
He meet his biology mother 3 years ago and she told him if abortion was legal here he would not be here, I have to say to hear it from him left an effect on me,
I'm not voting so I'm nit one side or the other , But there is certainly cases for both ,
It

you wouldn't Be here if your parents had sex at 8pm instead of 9pm, or on Wednesday instead of Thursday.

But they did , it was after the fact she wanted to get rid but couldn't ,

yourdeadwright · 08-05-2018 11:42AM

eviltwin wrote: »

If I hadn't had an abortion my son wouldn't be here so it works both ways.

How did you know you where having a son?

optogirl · 08-05-2018 11:43AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How did you know you where having a son?

If she hadn't had an earlier abortion, her son would not have been born

Sofiztikated · 08-05-2018 11:43AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How did you know you where having a son?

I'd assume that its because he's a real person.

January · 08-05-2018 11:43AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How did you know you where having a son?

No... you're not getting it. She had an abortion and then conceived her son.

kylith · 08-05-2018 11:43AM

eviltwin wrote: »

If I hadn't had an abortion my son wouldn't be here so it works both ways.

I’ce said it before. I know 5 people alive because their mother had an abortion in the 70s.

nozzferrahhtoo · 08-05-2018 11:44AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I spoke to a young man the weekend who is adopted , He meet his biology mother 3 years ago and she told him if abortion was legal here he would not be here, I have to say to hear it from him left an effect on me

Since we are trading anecdotes I was talking once to a guy who said his parents used to travel up to the north of Ireland for contraception. They could not get it in the south.

He was conceived during a period between trips when the parents actually had no contraception. So basically, similar to your anecdote, he said "If contraception had been legal when I was conceived I likely would not be here".

Strangely is did not affect me in the same way it appears to have affected you. Mainly because "If things had been otherwise then things now would be otherwise" style arguments do not generally appeal to any part of my brain.

eviltwin · 08-05-2018 11:44AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How did you know you where having a son?

Is that a serious question? There are scans or alternatively, you find out when they are born.

PlaneSpeeking · 08-05-2018 11:44AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How did you know you where having a son?

She said her son wouldn't be here - I assume the abortion was on a non-viable foetus (gender not noted) and that removal enabled her fertility to continue, with the delivery of a healthy son.

SusieBlue · 08-05-2018 11:44AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No she didn't abort him because she couldn't afford to go to England there where his mothers words.
Why do you get to just make up something that not true to a line with your argument ?

S

Still not a valid reason to deny other women a choice. Forced birth does not equal happy, stable, loving childhood in a lot of cases. It isn't in women or in childrens best interests.

And I didn't make anything up. If your parents had sex on a Tuesday instead of a Wednesday, you might not be here, as someone else pointed out.

My parents couldn't have conceived my brother if my mam hadn't had a miscarriage a few months before hand. They wouldn't have had another baby so soon if they hadn't lost the first one.

Kimbot · 08-05-2018 11:45AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

Save the 8th

MOD Anne, please add more to your post, failure to do so will result in a thread ban or worse going forward.

Moiratat · 08-05-2018 11:46AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

But they did , it was after the fact she wanted to get rid but couldn't ,

But if he didn't exist he wouldn't know and neither would anyone who knows him now, the reason this is upsetting is because he does exist and his mother essentially said that she wished he didn't but things can't be undone now, it just shows that she is a nasty person for saying that to him. If abortion was accessible to her and she had one, you would not know him at all because he would not have existed, but that isn't the case and it can be upsetting to think "what if I never met this person?" But you did, you probably don't mourn all the people you could've met that have not existed, do you?

PlaneSpeeking · 08-05-2018 11:48AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Still not a valid reason to deny other women a choice. Forced birth does not equal happy, stable, loving childhood in a lot of cases. It isn't in women or in childrens best interests.

And I didn't make anything up. If your parents had sex on a Tuesday instead of a Wednesday, you might not be here, as someone else pointed out.

My parents couldn't have conceived my brother if my mam hadn't had a miscarriage a few months before hand. They wouldn't have had another baby so soon if they hadn't lost the first one.

This isn't an abortion story - but my grandmother died having my mother and her twin, who also died.

My grandfather remarried when my mum was 5 and her stepmother didn't want her. Eventually my great uncle (who I called granddad till the day he died, and really still do in stories) took her in and brought her up.

Some people don't want children. I know I personally would make a terrible mother, I just don't have the patience - so I don't have children.

Forcing people to become parents will rarely lead to a health, happy, stable child.

yourdeadwright · 08-05-2018 11:51AM

Moiratat wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

But they did , it was after the fact she wanted to get rid but couldn't ,

But if he didn't exist he wouldn't know and neither would anyone who knows him now, the reason this is upsetting is because he does exist and his mother essentially said that she wished he didn't but things can't be undone now, it just shows that she is a nasty person for saying that to him. If abortion was accessible to her and she had one, you would not know him at all because he would not have existed, but that isn't the case and it can be upsetting to think "what if I never met this person?" But you did, you probably don't mourn all the people you could've met that have not existed, do you?

This is true, b

chalkitdown1 · 08-05-2018 12:08PM

If my father had bought a motorbike instead of a Morris Minor in 1980 and he hadn't gone to the beach and the lifeguard hadn't told him it was too dangerous to go swimming so he went to the pub and met my mother, I might not be here at all today.

Makes you think.

Sofiztikated · 08-05-2018 12:10PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If murder was legal there's a chance you wouldn't be here either , So what ?

Is the only thing stopping you from going out murdering is that its illegal?

iguana · 08-05-2018 12:14PM

OMFG. Has anyone seen what some of the No side have been up to in Simon Harris' constituency, particularly around his constituency office? This is an appalling new low. I feel sick about it. Harris election posters with the image of a miscarried foetus/stillborn baby behind him.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/simon-harris-criticises-disgusting-abortion-posters-using-his-image-1.3487839

(Warning, the images are graphic, so don't scroll too far down the link if you aren't prepared to see them.)

....... · 08-05-2018 12:16PM

This post has been deleted.

Sofiztikated · 08-05-2018 12:16PM

iguana wrote: »

OMFG. Has anyone seen what some of the No side have been up to in Simon Harris' constituency, particularly around his constituency office? This is an appalling new low. I feel sick about it. Harris election posters with the image of a miscarried foetus/stillborn baby behind him.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/simon-harris-criticises-disgusting-abortion-posters-using-his-image-1.3487839

(Warning, the images are graphic, so don't scroll too far down the link if you aren't prepared to see them.)

Again, you'll hear nothing but silence from the "I'd vote yes but " crowd.

SusieBlue · 08-05-2018 12:19PM

iguana wrote: »

OMFG. Has anyone seen what some of the No side have been up to in Simon Harris' constituency, particularly around his constituency office? This is an appalling new low. I feel sick about it. Harris election posters with the image of a miscarried foetus/stillborn baby behind him.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/simon-harris-criticises-disgusting-abortion-posters-using-his-image-1.3487839

(Warning, the images are graphic, so don't scroll too far down the link if you aren't prepared to see them.)

It actually terrifies me that the people behind this disgusting campaign walk among us.
What an insensitive, deplorable, disgraceful thing to do. It is indefensible.

Just when you think they can't stoop any lower.

ELM327 · 08-05-2018 12:19PM

iguana wrote: »

OMFG. Has anyone seen what some of the No side have been up to in Simon Harris' constituency, particularly around his constituency office? This is an appalling new low. I feel sick about it. Harris election posters with the image of a miscarried foetus/stillborn baby behind him.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/simon-harris-criticises-disgusting-abortion-posters-using-his-image-1.3487839

(Warning, the images are graphic, so don't scroll too far down the link if you aren't prepared to see them.)

Disgusting.
But if RobertKK and Annefrank are representative of the majority of the NO side I'd be lying if I said I wasn't surprised. Shock and scaremongering that's what their lot is at

Remember - they are not trying to make you change from YES to NO, just from YES to Dont KNow. Because in Ireland statistically most "don't nos" vote NO in referenda.

Frank Bullitt · 08-05-2018 12:20PM

https://www.buzz.ie/news/simon-harris-issues-statement-disgusting-posters-left-outside-home-284177

Sweet Jesus, what the hell is wrong with these people?

....... · 08-05-2018 12:27PM

This post has been deleted.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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