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8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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Comments

  • #2402
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    You've linked one woman.

    One woman who was promoting a book at the time I might add.

    No one is named, the record company organized it very sketchy, clearly that is poor practice if so unbelievable really. A bandmate of hers gave birth at the height of their fame so I dunno where she got it her pregnancy would be any different, she was so naive to do as they asked if thats what happened but at the end of the day she can stand by her choice it doesn't appear she was fit to be a mother then, it's also acknowledged that the father was a heavy drug user at the time too.


  • #2403
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The fact it was under mental health grounds, was not the explanation for the abortion...

    The report deals in facts :


    Virtually all of these (99.8%) were carried out specifically on the grounds of threat to the woman's mental health, rather than her physical health.


    You are speculating


  • #2404
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Go to sleep, you are calling women anti-women as many women will vote no, butt hey are misogynists in your warped view.

    To quote Oscar Wilde “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”

    I never called women anti-women as many women will vote no. So that's a lie.

    I've also never insinuated they are misogynists either, I said people with views as extreme as yours are very misogynistic and disrespectful to women. That's another lie from Bob.

    Bob, you can quote Oscar Wilde all you would like, you can not, nor will you ever be worthy of even being the arm that holds a candle to my level of intellect. Do not compare me with mediocrity Bob, you really don't want to enter a battle of wits with me, the pre-requisite being that wit is actually held by both of us, not just me. You can always PM me if you want to try go the personal route though as I'd rather not derail the thread.

    Sit down and stop lying son.


  • #2405
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    You are so far away from Oscar Wilde it's scary.

    I never said I was close, but he had his views on imitation, so that says something.


  • #2406
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    The_Brood wrote: »
    Do you think that a 1 month old baby and a 30 year old woman are the same thing? [x2]

    They are "the same thing" but at different stages of development and growth. One, unless it's life is lost, develops into the other. Very straight forward.

    Aha, so there we go. One "develops" into the other. Therefore it is not a baby before then.

    It is a foetus, with no brain, no nervous system, no sentience. It is in no way equal to a 1 month old baby or a 30 year old woman because it is not finished developing into a human being.


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  • #2407
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    gctest50 wrote: »
    The report deals in facts :






    You are speculating

    What happened the last time he speculated and claimed it was fact? Remind me?


  • #2408
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    RobertKK wrote: »
    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    You are so far away from Oscar Wilde it's scary.

    I never said I was close, but he had his views on imitation, so that says something.

    No answer about non existent foetuses impacting on healthcare I note? Mindless dogma is such a harsh mistress.


  • #2409
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    I never called women anti-women as many women will vote no. So that's a lie.

    I've also never insinuated they are misogynists either, I said people with views as extreme as yours are very misogynistic and disrespectful to women. That's another lie from Bob.

    Bob, you can quote Oscar Wilde all you would like, you can not, nor will you ever be worthy of even being the arm that holds a candle to my level of intellect.

    Sit down and stop lying son.

    Well I have enough intellect to know Oscar Wilde quotes and to know imitation is not viewed as mockery.

    I don't have extreme views.

    It is a lie to imply I am not sitting down, but that sums up a sentence about lying...


  • #2410
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    No answer about non existent foetuses impacting on healthcare I note? Mindless dogma is such a harsh mistress.

    Could you phrase that into something that one could reply to?


  • #2411
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    I have performed 21 abortions today, ending pregnancies in women ageing from 16 to 44, who have travelled from as far as Northern Ireland to regain control over their own bodies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/views-from-the-nhs-frontline/2015/jun/22/abortion-doctor-learn-life-women


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  • #2412
    The_Brood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    bootpaws wrote: »
    Aha, so there we go. One "develops" into the other. Therefore it is not a baby before then.

    It is a foetus, with no brain, no nervous system, no sentience. It is in no way equal to a 1 month old baby or a 30 year old woman because it is not finished developing into a human being.

    By that logic there absolutely should be no value to a 1 month old baby's life either. It has no distinct personality, sense of right or wrong, moral compass, appreciation of art, absolutely anything that anyone links to the value of a full human being. A mouse has more intelligence at that point.

    But it's life is protected precisely because it, unless killed, will develop into one.


  • #2413
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Well I have enough intellect to know Oscar Wilde quotes and to know imitation is not viewed as mockery.

    I don't have extreme views.

    It is a lie to imply I am not sitting down, but that sums up a sentence about lying...

    Do you actually know what a lie is?


  • #2414
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Well I have enough intellect to know Oscar Wilde quotes and to know imitation is not viewed as mockery.

    I don't have extreme views.

    It is a lie to imply I am not sitting down, but that sums up a sentence about lying...

    Imitation is viewed as either flattery or mockery, the interpretation being on those viewing, so yes, I was mocking you trying to be a smartarse towards me and failing epicly by you absolutely bungling your article by making it obvious you didn't even read it.

    Yes, you do have extreme views, you were of the view that Miss P was a public stunt, you are of the view that an unborn embryo/fetus is more important than a born, living citizen, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm 90% positive it was you who initially floated out something regarding a rape committee.

    EDIT: apologies, I mixed you up with another poster who suggested that after you insinuated that children born from rape could be used as evidence.


  • #2415
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Nice gloss over...



    https://www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/are-career-girl-lifestyle-abortions-on-the-rise/

    So the NHS says they were done under the mental health part of the legislation...but then goes onto the reason for the abortions: "Overall, the report only provides us with facts, not explanations."
    So the NHS doesn't believe they were for mental health as the grounds for the abortion - mental health was not the explanation for the abortions...

    That was from 2014 and you forgot to put in the main part "Media sources have reported on the "career girl" abortion (Daily Mail) or "lifestyle" abortion (The Daily Telegraph) after figures released by the Department of Health showed that increasing numbers of women aged 25 to 29, or who have long-term partners or children already, are having abortions." 2 conservative papers. The mail is a joke tabloid and Telegraph as someone said is read by diehard Thatcherites.

    One in four people will experience a mental health problem at some point in their lives. so the option C is not hard to believe
    Around one in ten children experience mental health problems.
    Depression affects around one in 12 of the whole population.
    450 million people world-wide have a mental health problem.

    http://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/a-to-z/stigma/


  • #2416
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    RobertKK wrote: »
    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    No answer about non existent foetuses impacting on healthcare I note? Mindless dogma is such a harsh mistress.

    Could you phrase that into something that one could reply to?

    Sure, I can dumb it down.

    You are so concerned about foetuses.

    Yet women who cannot possibly be pregnant are routinely denied healthcare.

    Not denied "in case" they are pregnant but where there is ZERO chance of pregnancy - "mythical non existent foetuses" as I referred to.

    This is solely a byproduct of the 8th amendment.


  • #2417
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    The_Brood wrote: »
    By that logic there absolutely should be no value to a 1 month old baby's life either. It has no distinct personality, sense of right or wrong, moral compass, appreciation of art, absolutely anything that anyone links to the value of a full human being. A mouse has more intelligence at that point.

    But it's life is protected precisely because it, unless killed, will develop into one.

    A 1 month old is a developed human life that can exist independent of a woman, and it is capable of feeling pain and emotion.

    A 12 week old foetus is capable of neither, and additionally, requires a girl or woman to sustain it at risk to the woman or girl's health for 9 months while it develops.

    Some of us think that maybe women and girls should get a say in whether that pregnancy continues further. But I guess that requires being able to think outside the womb for more than two seconds.


  • #2418
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    What happened the last time he speculated and claimed it was fact? Remind me?

    What are you talking about?


  • #2419
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    The_Brood wrote: »
    bootpaws wrote: »
    Aha, so there we go. One "develops" into the other. Therefore it is not a baby before then.

    It is a foetus, with no brain, no nervous system, no sentience. It is in no way equal to a 1 month old baby or a 30 year old woman because it is not finished developing into a human being.

    By that logic there absolutely should be no value to a 1 month old baby's life either. It has no distinct personality, sense of right or wrong, moral compass, appreciation of art, absolutely anything that anyone links to the value of a full human being. A mouse has more intelligence at that point.

    But it's life is protected precisely because it, unless killed, will develop into one.

    For at least the last 30 weeks it has had a brain stem. It is therefore a sentient being.


  • #2420
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Sure, I can dumb it down.

    You are so concerned about foetuses.

    Yet women who cannot possibly be pregnant are routinely denied healthcare.

    Not denied "in case" they are pregnant but where there is ZERO chance of pregnancy - "mythical non existent foetuses" as I referred to.

    This is solely a byproduct of the 8th amendment.

    I still don't know what you are talking about.

    I am for the lives of women and then their unborn.


  • #2421
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    spookwoman wrote: »
    ............

    One in four people will experience a mental health problem at some point in their lives. so the option C is not hard to believe ....

    "option C " is also " threat to her mental health"

    being thrown out on the street because she simply cannot afford it wouldn't be long making ribbons of your mental health


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  • #2422
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I still don't know what you are talking about.

    I am for the lives of women and then their unborn.

    Christ, it's like debating with a soundboard.


  • #2423
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    RobertKK wrote: »

    I am for the lives of the unborn.
    Fixed your post buddy, thank me some other time.


  • #2424
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    spookwoman wrote: »
    That was from 2014 and you forgot to put in the main part "Media sources have reported on the "career girl" abortion (Daily Mail) or "lifestyle" abortion (The Daily Telegraph) after figures released by the Department of Health showed that increasing numbers of women aged 25 to 29, or who have long-term partners or children already, are having abortions." 2 conservative papers. The mail is a joke tabloid and Telegraph as someone said is read by diehard Thatcherites.

    One in four people will experience a mental health problem at some point in their lives. so the option C is not hard to believe
    Around one in ten children experience mental health problems.
    Depression affects around one in 12 of the whole population.
    450 million people world-wide have a mental health problem.

    http://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/a-to-z/stigma/

    But the reason for abortion you give is up there with the Daily Mail and the Telegraph as it is not an explanation, otherwise the NHS would have said that is the explanation.


  • #2425
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Fixed your post buddy, thank me some other time.

    You fixed nothing, you just want your words in my mouth.


  • #2426
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    gctest50 wrote: »
    The report deals in facts :






    You are speculating

    So why did the NHS say they don't give explanations for the abortions? The facts are the measure in law that was used.


  • #2427
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    bootpaws wrote: »
    RobertKK wrote: »
    I still don't know what you are talking about.

    I am for the lives of women and then their unborn.

    Christ, it's like debating with a soundboard.

    I'm not even going to try any more. He gets it, the reality doesn't fit his agenda though so easier to ignore and obfuscate.


  • #2428
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You fixed nothing, you just want your words in my mouth.

    Because your own words are a constant stream of lies, speculation and more lies.

    Mine would be much more refreshing I would imagine.


  • #2429
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So why did the NHS say they don't give explanations for the abortions?.

    To allow individuals like yourself the opportunity to speculate wildly with no facts to go upon.

    Suggesting that the majority of 97% of women who aborted on medical grounds did so as a lifestyle choice and for their career is speculation, as you have no explanation.

    You have a fact in 97% confirmed mental health grounds.

    You are speculating if you try to dissect that further with no factual explanation.


  • #2430
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    RobertKK wrote: »
    .........

    otherwise the NHS would have said that is the explanation.

    No, they don't speculate - unless they say they are just speculating

    They don't tend yo lie by leaving out stuff either it seems


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  • #2431
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    To allow individuals like yourself the opportunity to speculate wildly with no facts to go upon.

    Suggesting that the majority of 97% of women who aborted on medical grounds did so as a lifestyle choice and for their career is speculation, as you have no explanation.

    You have a fact in 97% confirmed mental health grounds.

    You are speculating if you try to dissect that further with no factual explanation.

    Do you think all 97% are due to mental health?


This discussion has been closed.
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