8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

pleas advice wrote:

even for ridiculous reasons?

Do you want women to consult you on all their decisions because of their inherent untrustworthy-ness?

threescompany wrote: »

I feel ireland willbenefit because we won’t have unrestricted abortion . I think unrestricted abortion is wrong and by getting rid of the 8th, we are letting down our country.
That is my humble opinion. Of course, FFA, rape , incest & occasional circumstances require abortion but absolutely not on demand. I would repeal the 8th if there was no unrestricted abortion but I won’t now. Look at other countries in Europe.....
Are the Uk benefiting from 1 out 5 pregnancies resulting in abortion?
Look at other reasons for abortion , irresponsible decision making on contraception, diagnoses of Down’s syndrome, cleft lip etc. if this is what abortion on demand represents then I’m out.

And what benefit does keeping "unrestricted abortion" out of Ireland bring?

As far as I'm concerned, a persons reasons for accessing it are not my business. Will some of them be for reasons I may not agree with? Maybe. But they're not my decisions to judge.

pleas advice wrote: »

even for ridiculous reasons?

The thing is we can glibly dismiss cleft palate as a ridiculous reason sitting comfortably in our armchairs judging.

But it's a condition that, if severe, can need multiple surgeries and hospital visits.

In a normal situation that's tough but can be managed.

But lives are complicated. Maybe there's already a disabled child that needs constant care, a long drive to the hospital, a very tight financial situation that can't allow for time off work, a single mother already juggling three children, an elderly parent that can't be left, a struggle for mental health, . . .Or a combination of several of the above and more.

Personally I believe we should trust women to decide, with their doctors and families, and based on their own circumstances.

Not that any of this is relevant to the debate as there is no proposal to allow for abortion for foetal related reasons after 12 weeks except for fatal fatal abnormalities, of which cleft palate by itself is not one.

joe swanson wrote: »

I will be voting no as I don't agree with unrestricted abortion up till 12 weeks. I agree with it if it is a necessary procedure ie fatal faetal abnormality etc . However the proposed followup legislation has convinced me to vote no........
.

Yet another one - you are not voting on abortion - you are voting on repeal of a constitutional amendment - legislation comes later.

How on earth do you plan on policing whether its for FFA, rape, incest, life threatening to the mother? How? its an absolute nonsense. One doctor will say yes, another says no, another has another think about it and in the meantime the woman is like a tennis ball being batted from one to the other. A rape committee? Outrageous.

The last no poster here got banned for trolling as he was looking to introduce forced hysterectomys.

Repeal all the way - body autonomy for all not just for men

dublinbuster wrote: »

white irish christians NO
black,brown,yellow muslims, jews, hindus ect YES
its not that difficult to come to a correct position on abortion

I’m a white non practicing Christian and I’m voting Yes?
What a racist comment.

dublinbuster wrote: »

Race is a social construct, it does not exist, so how can one be racist?

Give over.
If your point is that white Irish born people are opposed to abortion, and other races and religions are in favour of it, I hate to break it to you but you are factually incorrect.

threescompany wrote: »

I feel ireland willbenefit because we won’t have unrestricted abortion . I think unrestricted abortion is wrong and by getting rid of the 8th, we are letting down our country.
That is my humble opinion. Of course, FFA, rape , incest & occasional circumstances require abortion but absolutely not on demand. I would repeal the 8th if there was no unrestricted abortion but I won’t now. Look at other countries in Europe.....
Are the Uk benefiting from 1 out 5 pregnancies resulting in abortion?
Look at other reasons for abortion , irresponsible decision making on contraception, diagnoses of Down’s syndrome, cleft lip etc. if this is what abortion on demand represents then I’m out.

Please can you read official statistical reports on abortion in the UK. I think I read 47% if the women obtaining abortions were on contraception that failed. Apologies I can’t find where I read that I’m travelling and only on my phone but I think it’s in here...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf


I have a family member who was born with severe cleft palate in the last 10 years. It was not detected on any scans it was discovered at birth. It can now also be operated on in utero.

To be extremely crude about whether the UK benefits from abortion. In Scotland it is mostly women from deprived areas who are obtaining abortions.

See

Do you think that it is easy to get out of poverty if you have kids to pay for and can’t afford childcare to go back to work? Do you think forcing families that have next to nothing

http://www.isdscotland.org/Health-Topics/Sexual-Health/Publications/2013-05-28/2013-05-28-Abortions-Report.pdf

already to have more children is good for them or society? Can you imagine the pressure those people are under financially?

I also had a miscarriage at 11weeks. At the time t broke me. But I recovered. I would never recover if I lost one of my kids. A fetus is not a child. I appreciate people having ethical concerns with abortion. But I don’t appreciate imposing ones own ethical concerns on everyone.

I also have friends in the UK and Ireland with kids with Down’s syndrome. And guess what, they are in favour of repealing the 8th.

dublinbuster wrote:

From the left wing playbook, When you cant argue the point with someone call them racist.

Nobody can argue with you because you have failed to submit any actual points for consideration.

OK is there going to be a 50 post minimum before posting on this thread? There are so many new accounts posting racist, sexist, homophobic drivel on this thread.

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I do hate to be the bearer of unpleasant news to you but Downs Syndrome isn't just a case of a child looking a bit different. Often there are inherent health issues- such as heart defects.

My neighbour had her first child at 47. No scan or anything (daughter was born in late 60s not long before me). Both parents died before Doreen left school.

I remember her as one of the happiest peoole I've evee met. But she was never out of hospital and I believe the stress of her care killed the parents before their time. She herself passed away at 22.

I doubt they'd have aborted their child had they known but do not dismiss people who abort a child with DS as making a "ridiculous choice".

The other sad reality is there just isn't the backup services in Ireland to support families of DS or other disabilities. Not everyone is able or strong enough to care for them. Is it wrong for them to want to terminate honestly I can't say because it's not me who will have go through the pregnancy or raise that child. Let women and their families make that choice, it's their lives their futures.