8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

gmisk · 01-05-2018 08:00AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Meh. We're really only talking a minority of extremists such as Paddy Manning and a few of his friends. Most lgbt people I know are yes voters. Particularly trans people who are also deeply affected by the issue.

Paddy Manning and Keith Mills... The two gay men against gay marriage as well....
It screams of I need attention!!! I am different.

I love how one of them was at eurovision and made a big thing about coming home to vote (BTW I have it on good authority they didn't lol).

Oh and at the marriage referendum stage one of them was engaged.... I kid you not lol

Annasopra · 01-05-2018 08:01AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

I'm a gay man too, and I'm voting Yes. Because we know what it's like to have the State interfere in our fundamental rights. We know what it's like to be regarded as criminals even if we'll never actually go to jail. The 8th is a relic of that kind of Ireland; in the same year the 8th was passed, David Norris lost his Supreme Court challenge and the killers of Declan Flynn walked free. That's the kind of Ireland that needs to be left in the past.

And like I said to straight people during the marriage equality referendum, it may not affect you directly, but it does affect someone you know. A sister, a niece, an aunt, friend, co-worker; someone you know will need an abortion and the decision you make will determine the kind of care and treatment they receive when they make that decision.

The women of Ireland supported us three years when we needed them, now it's our turn and I'm not going to let them down.

+1

As a gay man this does not affect me directly. It has a huge impact on My Sister, My Cousins, A large number of my friends. I cant stand idly by and watch the barbarism of the 8th continue.

As a citizen it does affect me personally because it sets down if the 8th is repealed that we in Ireland want a country and a state that cares for our people, that is compassionate towards them, that does not sit in moral judgement against them, that has their best interests at heart, that allows them to flourish without shaming and silencing them, that does nit torture them emotionally, physically and psychologically through the constitution.

I want an Ireland with values of care and compassion not moral judgement. Thats is why I am passionate about repeal.

Ave Sodalis · 01-05-2018 08:02AM

RDM_83 again wrote:

Edit: all the people saying not voting is the same as voting no, do you think there is an argument that non voters should be added to the no side after all that's apparently there intent?

I've actually already said that abstaining is a No vote regardless of intent. It's pretty clear that people who abstain do not want to be included in the Yes or No side. However, as with the marriage ref, as with women's right to vote, as with anything on other people's rights and empathy, not voting is essentially saying that you don't want change, which is the same as voting No. This is regardless of intent.

Hannibal_Smith · 01-05-2018 08:06AM

'If it wasn't for the 8th you wouldn't be here's

I find that argument very strange. Are people arrogant enough to believe the world is all the better because they're in it? Is that what they're trying to convince others to think?

NuMarvel · 01-05-2018 08:12AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

As I said in other thread, amending was one of the options that the citizen convention had a lot of support for yet it's not being given as an option, germany who's system I favour retained some level of Constitutional protection yet also has a system that allows for abortion after consultation

Not amending* was the other option, and that had more support. Amending was also one of the six options that the Committee considered, and no one voted for that, not even Mullen, Fitzpatrick, or McGrath. It also wasn't the option given by the current attorney general, who was under no obligation to follow the recommendations of the Assembly or the Committee. And it was something the AG back in 1983 spoke out against too when he was giving his legal advice on the 8th.

The long and the short of it is that when people consider it, they reject it. I don't see what's gained by putting an option to the electorate that others have considered and determined isn't practically feasible.

As for Germany, the protections seems to be in name only, because the courts have ruled those protections don't oblige the German state to prosecute. Call me old fashioned, but if you're going to put protections into a constitution, shouldn't they at least be ones the State has to employ?

*And by amending, I mean setting out the grounds for abortion in the constitution.

robarmstrong · 01-05-2018 08:17AM

Does anyone know if those cretins have been moved from outside the Rotunda? We're due in for a routine check-up today and can honestly see myself losing the rag if they're there.

NuMarvel · 01-05-2018 08:17AM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

'If it wasn't for the 8th you wouldn't be here's

I find that argument very strange. Are people arrogant enough to believe the world is all the better because they're in it? Is that what they're trying to convince others to think?

I find it utterly bizarre on a far more fundamental level. If the 8th is the only reason we're here, then how is it anyone was alive to propose it or vote on it back in 1983??

Hannibal_Smith · 01-05-2018 08:18AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

I find it utterly bizarre on a far more fundamental level. If the 8th is the only reason we're here, then how is it anyone was alive to propose it or vote on it back in 1983??

Hah! Very true. It's miraculous alright

Telly · 01-05-2018 08:19AM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Does anyone know if those cretins have been moved from outside the Rotunda? We're due in for a routine check-up today and can honestly see myself losing the rag if they're there.

Just saw the pics, it’s so sad

The poor women who are suffering miscarriages having to walk past that

NuMarvel · 01-05-2018 08:19AM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Does anyone know if those cretins have been moved from outside the Rotunda? We're due in for a routine check-up today and can honestly see myself losing the rag if they're there.

I think they were moved on yesterday. I'm not sure if they're back today though. Maybe ring the hospital beforehand? I'm sorry ye have to go through this.

Hannibal_Smith · 01-05-2018 08:30AM

Goes to show women don't come into the equation at all for some. There is no compassion at all.

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2018 08:41AM

AllForIt wrote: »

No, my non vote is considered, leave it up to ppl who are more passionate about the issue than I am. A non vote does not imply I want to keep the status quo.

In 1983, turnout was rather low at 53.7%, and many people noted that a lot of men did not vote, considering it a "womens issue", and Yes won 2:1 on the day.

This time, polls show Yes beating No 2:1 ish, but with a lot of Don't Knows (more with each poll). The No campaign needs every last Don't Know to vote No, so staying home is nearly as good as a Yes this time.

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2018 08:49AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

As I said in other thread, amending was one of the options that the citizen convention had a lot of support for yet it's not being given as an option

Pardon? We are following the recommendation of the Citizens Assembly to amend the Constitution!

Sofiztikated · 01-05-2018 09:16AM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

'If it wasn't for the 8th you wouldn't be here's

I find that argument very strange. Are people arrogant enough to believe the world is all the better because they're in it? Is that what they're trying to convince others to think?

Its the same argument as "If there was no God, and no hell, sure wouldn't we all be murdering each other"

kenmc · 01-05-2018 09:22AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

I find it utterly bizarre on a far more fundamental level. If the 8th is the only reason we're here, then how is it anyone was alive to propose it or vote on it back in 1983??

Don't even go there unless you want to see this:

You will literally blow their eensy weensy peanut-sized minds.

optogirl · 01-05-2018 09:34AM

I can't get over the absolute scummy behaviour of that Irish Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform (huh?). Standing outside our 3 Dublin maternity hospitals - where women & their partners are accessing maternity services, children are going to visit new siblings etc, people are coming out having just been told their pregnancy isn't viable, women are arriving terrified because they are bleeding - with graphic pictures of foetuses. Their argument is 'what is so offensive about a picture of a natural process'. The lack of humanity is just astounding.

Triceratops Ballet · 01-05-2018 09:37AM

optogirl wrote:

I can't get over the absolute scummy behaviour of that Irish Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform (huh?). Standing outside our 3 Dublin maternity hospitals - where women & their partners are accessing maternity services, children are going to visit new siblings etc, people are coming out having just been told their pregnancy isn't viable, women are arriving terrified because they are bleeding - with graphic pictures of foetuses. Their argument is 'what is so offensive about a picture of a natural process'. The lack of humanity is just astounding.

I don't even understand what "point" they are trying to make, it's utterly baffling

....... · 01-05-2018 09:42AM

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Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2018 10:00AM

....... wrote: »

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Find out tomorrow on : Savethe8th!

NuMarvel · 01-05-2018 10:02AM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I have no doubt that they'll find a way.

Don't forget, the aim of all this is to cause confusion about what's proposed and to close down discussion. When people discuss this and consider all sides, they tend to be in favour of change. The No side know they can't win that argument, so they're in essence knocking over the table and throwing a tantrum. So that instead of focusing on what we'll be voting on, the electorate are concentrating on that instead.

This will continue for the next 24 days, and even if we can't imagine how they'll get worse, you can be sure they've come up with at least 5 different ideas.

Call me Al · 01-05-2018 10:04AM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Does anyone know if those cretins have been moved from outside the Rotunda? We're due in for a routine check-up today and can honestly see myself losing the rag if they're there.

That may be the response they're looking for. Don't rise to it.

optogirl · 01-05-2018 10:06AM

Call me Al wrote: »

That may be the response they're looking for. Don't rise to it.

Apparently they're wearing body cams

amdublin · 01-05-2018 10:07AM

Call me Al wrote: »

That may be the response they're looking for. Don't rise to it.

When they go low, we go high.

Good look today robarmstrong. Hope everything goes well at the check up

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2018 10:08AM

optogirl wrote: »

Apparently they're wearing body cams

Of course they are, and you can expect them to start yelling "Peaceful protest! Peaceful protest" if approached, ready to put up an edited clip of an enraged Yes voter punching one of them.

Click-bait gold!

Triceratops Ballet · 01-05-2018 10:13AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course they are, and you can expect them to start yelling "Peaceful protest! Peaceful protest" if approached, ready to put up an edited clip of an enraged Yes voter punching one of them.

Click-bait gold!

when in reality it could just be an enraged and protective mother or father, they really are scum.

I've heard of a few incidents of people wearing their repeal gear randomly being hit, shoved and worse in the streets

mach1982 · 01-05-2018 10:17AM

Here are stats for abortions in England and Wales fro 2016.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

The 1 in 5 posters says in England not England and Wales.

Also has any one who going to vote Yes looked up online what the procedure for an abortion is . I know that any medical procedure that is going to carried out on me or some I care about I will always google it so I understand what is going on .

optogirl · 01-05-2018 10:18AM

mach1982 wrote: »

Here are stats for abortions in England and Wales fro 2016.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

The 1 in 5 posters says in England not England and Wales.

Also has any one who going to vote Yes looked up online what the procedure for an abortion is . I know that any medical procedure that is going to carried out on me or some I care about I will always google it so I understand what is going on .

Why? I've had brain surgery & I'm fooked if I'm going to watch the procedure on youtube

Call me Al · 01-05-2018 10:20AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

when in reality it could just be an enraged and protective mother or father, they really are scum.

I've heard of a few incidents of people wearing their repeal gear randomly being hit, shoved and worse in the streets

I attended a county gaa match a few weeks back. There were renua and repeal stands and canvassers with flyers outside the grounds side by side along the footpath. The abuse directed at the repeal stand by a group of football supporters was absolutely disgusting and intimidating. One older man took his phone out to record them whilst shouting abusive names at them. It was just awful to witness and the place teeming with young children.
Even my father, who is against repeal, was shocked at their behaviour.

gmisk · 01-05-2018 10:21AM

mach1982 wrote: »

Here are stats for abortions in England and Wales fro 2016.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

The 1 in 5 posters says in England not England and Wales.

Also has any one who going to vote Yes looked up online what the procedure for an abortion is . I know that any medical procedure that is going to carried out on me or some I care about I will always google it so I understand what is going on .

The 1 in 5 stat is rubbish....read back through this thread, its more like 1/9 or 1/10

Triceratops Ballet · 01-05-2018 10:23AM

mach1982 wrote: »

Here are stats for abortions in England and Wales fro 2016.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

The 1 in 5 posters says in England not England and Wales.

Also has any one who going to vote Yes looked up online what the procedure for an abortion is . I know that any medical procedure that is going to carried out on me or some I care about I will always google it so I understand what is going on .

Yep, for abortions up to 12 weeks it's 2 pills you take! they've showed it in most British soaps at some point, scandalous!!

I've also seen that catholic propaganda film "the silent scream" in religion class. I know what abortion is.

I'm voting yes to repealing the 8th amendment. The 8th amendment is not about abortion.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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