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Is Islam right for Ireland?

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  • #242
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,399 ✭✭✭eeguy


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Yes, makes complete sense to leave the women and children in a war-zone for an indeterminable amount of time while you walk 3500kms to Europe.

    Ignorance must be bliss.


  • #243
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Harika wrote: »
    What is the alternative?

    Move to a safe area closer to home, where all of the family can go. You do realise Syria is a huge country and the whole lot wasn't at war?? 17.9 million stayed out of 24.5 million at the start of the war.

    Maybe they are all women and children, waiting by the phone and letter box waiting for word to head over to Europe.


  • #244
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    No they don't. Hardly any women cover up where I live. They also don't need to be escorted when out, they work and drive. Nobody gets stoned, for better or worse.

    Yes, there are some (relatively speaking) liberal majority Muslim countries. Iraq, Syria, Iran to an extent. The majority are not, however.


  • #245
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,594 ✭✭✭Harika


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Move to a safe area closer to home, where all of the family can go. You do realise Syria is a huge country and the whole lot wasn't at war?? 17.9 million stayed out of 24.5 million at the start of the war.

    Maybe they are all women and children, waiting by the phone and letter box waiting for word to head over to Europe.

    The people that went in the 2015 wave were coming from safe camps but after three years the food became less and less, thanks to EU countries cutting their help, and no chance of building a future.


  • #246
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    TheManTheMyth wrote: »
    There have been countless stories of Muslim immigrants degrading women and gay people all across Europe and generally not integrating into the countries that they have moved to, personally i was very pro migrant about a year (maybe a year and a half) ago but have completely 180'd on the topic and now have a serious feeling of discomfort when i think about Islam spreading to Ireland. Am i the only person who feels like we have enough problems without adding this new religion into the mix? the idea that governments want to change the views of their own people rather than address the source of the issue (in my eyes Islam and the less liberal nations from which these groups originate)scares me because it sends us back to the times of keeping everything silent, it will only lead to another catholic church situation where eventually their atrocities all come to light at once.

    Dont forget the massive rise in European Anti-Semitism and the "Walk a Jew home day" they had in Sweden.
    Jews never did me or any of my ancestors any harm. I dont want to import some other cultures faction fighting and race hate. Thats not "cultural enrichment". And the rise in government authoritarianism in European countries to keep a lid on discussion of such topics , blasphemy laws and the eradication of the renaissance values of free speech is definitely not worth it. Not my circus . Not my monkeys.
    Can you imagine women only carriages on the trains in Ireland ? Or like Germany where feminists are silent while women are told that what they wear makes them at fault for their sexual assaults ? Islam needs to reform itself before it should be allowed anywhere near us. Foreign funding of Mosques from sources which persecute Christians and other religions should be banned. Most of these mosques can be traced back to Saudi Arabia and their extremist Wahhabism. Unless its locally raised money then it represents interference of a foreign government in our affairs. Islam is not only a religion but also a political system.
    At this moment in time, Varadkar and Dublin City Council wishes to dismantle our neutrality. They can get stuffed. We should stay out of someone elses circus. We should neither be a part of bombing foreigners or submitting to them. We respect them and they respect us . We should be an independent neutral trading nation. The jumped up dictators who rule over us are totally corrupt and dont have the Irish nations best interests at heart.


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  • #247
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    I didn't say that... what I meant is that there should be a seperation between church and state.

    agreed.
    which is why it shouldn't matter what religion anyone is coming into the country


  • #248
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Yes, there are some (relatively speaking) liberal majority Muslim countries. Iraq, Syria, Iran to an extent. The majority are not, however.

    You can add Jordan, the Lebanon, Turkey and it starts looking like a majority to me.


  • #249
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    You can add Jordan, the Lebanon, Turkey and it starts looking like a majority to me.

    and Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo.


  • #250
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I dont believe thats true, there are many different customs, languages and cultures in the over 50 different muslim countries of the world.
    bubblypop wrote: »
    and Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo.

    And 9 is a majority?? :rolleyes: Good maths.


  • #251
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Strange how all these muslim "refugees" aren't going to all these perfectly reasonable muslim countries, rather than flooding Europe.

    Europe isn't being flooded.

    Why don't you look up how many refugees are in muslim states, like Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey?


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  • #252
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    And 9 is a majority?? :rolleyes: Good maths.

    We can keep listing countries if you want. I'm mainly commenting on places I've been. What about yourself?


  • #253
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    You can add Jordan, the Lebanon, Turkey and it starts looking like a majority to me.

    Turkey under Erdogan is not liberal.


  • #254
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Europe isn't being flooded.

    Why don't you look up how many refugees are in muslim states, like Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey?

    Sure the horde of big bad brown men are at the Gates of Vienna according to some here.


  • #255
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    You can add Jordan, the Lebanon, Turkey and it starts looking like a majority to me.

    It would though, wouldn't it.

    I mean liberal in comparison to the likes of Afghanistan. The standard is not very high.


  • #256
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Turkey under Erdogan is not liberal.

    It is.


  • #257
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Is it possible for you to post something without insulting someone?
    Anyway those priests and nuns you talk about are mostly dead or very old. So it is hyperbole.
    In Ireland in the last century you weren't whipped for having an affair or beheaded for homosexual acts.
    It was all about standing in society. Admittedly, it was wrong and crazy, but it is erroneous to lump 60 year Irish church attitudes and behavior as a counter claim against peoples current concerns about Islam.

    So you have no problem with RC officials not being prosecuted for crimes they’ve committed because they are old?

    Wow, we can see the bigotry now.

    Question everything about one religion but give a free pass to the criminals of another.

    In Ireland in the last century, women were enslaved and beaten in camps by members of the RC church for having a kid out of wedlock.

    All done with the support of FF, FG and Labour.

    Let’s deal with the religious criminality that has actually happened instead of the Brit tabloidesque hysteria.


  • #258
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    . Christians are not forced to live in medieval squalor.
    l.

    emmmmm.....wtf?


  • #259
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Religion is the biggest farce ever ,
    Its simply away to control people, and there will always be someone making money from it,


  • #260
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,830 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    So you have no problem with RC officials not being prosecuted for crimes they’ve committed because they are old?

    Wow, we can see the bigotry now.

    Question everything about one religion but give a free pass to the criminals of another.

    In Ireland in the last century, women were enslaved and beaten in camps by members of the RC church for having a kid out of wedlock.

    All done with the support of FF, FG and Labour.

    Let’s deal with the religious criminality that has actually happened instead of the Brit tabloidesque hysteria.

    Meanwhile Germany in 1942......

    EVENFLOW



  • #261
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,830 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Religion is the biggest farce ever ,
    Its simply away to control people, and there will always be someone making money from it,

    +1

    EVENFLOW



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  • #262
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Sure the horde of big bad brown men are at the Gates of Vienna according to some here.




    Is that a club? Asking for a friend.


  • #263
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    bubblypop wrote: »
    agreed.
    which is why it shouldn't matter what religion anyone is coming into the country

    It matters if the religion does not give men and women equal rights.


  • #264
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    It matters if the religion does not give men and women equal rights.

    Does any religion?


  • #265
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,684 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    So you have no problem with RC officials not being prosecuted for crimes they’ve committed because they are old?

    Wow, we can see the bigotry now.

    Question everything about one religion but give a free pass to the criminals of another.

    In Ireland in the last century, women were enslaved and beaten in camps by members of the RC church for having a kid out of wedlock.

    All done with the support of FF, FG and Labour.

    Let’s deal with the religious criminality that has actually happened instead of the Brit tabloidesque hysteria.

    Why import more religious bigots?
    And it is not Brit tabloidesque hysteria. They will openly admit their religious bigotry when asked.


  • #266
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,872 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    Christians don't keep their women as virtual prisoners in the home. Christians don't force their women to go out covered from head to toe in black, and in the company of a male. Christians don't have a form of law that stones, brutalizes and dismembers those who commit the 'crimes' of adultery and homosexuality. Christians are not taught to believe that those who do not believe in God are apostates and should be killed. Christians are not forced to live in medieval squalor.

    To compare Christianity to Islam is nonsensical.

    You do realize a lot of that is also true for christians. And it's also not true for the majority of muslims.

    This is what I mentioned pages back. People take the worst followers of islam and extend that to the whole of islam.
    Yet if you do that for christians you're crazy.


  • #267
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    did I detect a fallacy of "Christians were bad in the past therefore the post Christians of today should accept extremism now" ? Most Irish people arent Christian even if they say so in a census. They just have the kindest of the Christian values embedded into their culture and shun the abusers who infiltrate all organizations. Instead of being Christians, they just have a post Christian hangover and a Christian culture going back almost 2000 years and they dont want to add a Islamic hangover to it and make it worse.


  • #268
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,872 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Why import more religious bigots?
    And it is not Brit tabloidesque hysteria. They will openly admit their religious bigotry when asked.

    See, you're assuming that refugees that come here are religious bigots. You've done nothing to prove that they are.


  • #269
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Does any religion?

    A religion free Ireland is the best way forward, and by that I mean a clear separation of church and state, where the church would have no say or influence in government policy. Religion would not be a compulsory subject at school. etc.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, Ireland has grown to become a liberal and moderate country.

    Most Islamic countries to my mind, are not liberal or moderate, with the exception of Turkey... although the current prime minister's party have worked to try and change this since 2016.


  • #270
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    It matters if the religion does not give men and women equal rights.

    the laws of the land give men and women equal rights


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  • #271
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Grayson wrote: »
    See, you're assuming that refugees that come here are religious bigots. You've done nothing to prove that they are.

    There has been many links to Pew research and articles showing Muslim views on, for example, homosexuality and women rights. They don't make for great reading.

    Yes, we may have people come who are just as socially liberal as us but the chances way heavily in favour of the opposite.


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