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Should gay conversion therapy be banned in Ireland?

24567…13

Comments

  • #32
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    L.Jenkins wrote: »
    <SNIP>

    I wonder could the same be said for straight people who want to be gay. Conversion Therapy to turn you gay? See that going down well.

    It's an entire fetish with people making quite a bit of money.

    Sometimes I despair at my knowledge of Pornhub.


  • #33
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Berserker wrote: »
    I know someone in the USA who attend one of these clinics and it had the desired result. He was happily married with two children, last I heard. Spoke to him about it once on a night out and he said it was the best thing he ever did. He was very open about the whole experience. Have no problem with them myself once the person is attending them of their own free will.

    Does his wife know?


  • #34
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Find it bizarre to be honest. Why on earth would homosexuality need to be “cured”?

    I think some people might enter it because they are simply not happy and they think it might make them happy.(If you know what I mean)


  • #35
    Jim Bob Scratcher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Jim Bob Scratcher




  • #36
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    Does his wife know?

    I'm not sure about that. Never met the woman. He is very open about his journey, so she may well know about it. It was a bit a running joke in the office. On joining, people told you that you had to listen to his story in full as part of your probation.


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  • #37
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    Berserker wrote: »
    Lol, it was in Houston, not in Ireland.



    No, I accept that he is straight because he says he is. How do you know he is convincing himself and the therapy didn't work for him? This lad is in his early 30s now, so I don't think that age is a factor.

    Well since the biggest advocates of it that claim to have been "cured"(brainwashed seems more apt), invariably tend to end up falling off the repressed sexuality bandwagon, I'm inclined to say he is still gay. I don't support scams or emotional exploitation by dodgy groups. Such therapies are classified as unethical by psychological organisations


  • #38
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    Berserker wrote: »
    Lol, it was in Houston, not in Ireland.



    No, I accept that he is straight because he says he is. How do you know he is convincing himself and the therapy didn't work for him? This lad is in his early 30s now, so I don't think that age is a factor.
    Surely if this individual now self identifies as straight, he's now straight.


  • #39
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,521 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I don't think that the government should be regulating what therapies registered health professionals are allowed to offer. That extends all the way from abortion to how they fix broken legs (should moonboots be banned because they put plaster-manufacturers out of businesses?), and includes all manner of psychological treatments in between

    On the other hand, I don't think that the government should be fund therapies that the evidence-base shows are largely ineffective. Gay-conversion therapy would fall under that, AFAIK, unless they've found a way to target it to people with relatively low sex-drive.

    And I think that a very conservative approach should be taken to offering such therapy to people under a fairly high age of consent. Probably at least 25 for things like gender-reassignment or gay-conversion.


  • #40
    AnneFrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    No, you don't have to do it if you don't want to


  • #41
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,681 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I don't think that the government should be regulating what therapies registered health professionals are allowed to offer. That extends all the way from abortion to how they fix broken legs (should moonboots be banned because they put plaster-manufacturers out of businesses?), and includes all manner of psychological treatments in between

    On the other hand, I don't think that the government should be fund therapies that the evidence-base shows are largely ineffective. Gay-conversion therapy would fall under that, AFAIK, unless they've found a way to target it to people with relatively low sex-drive.

    And I think that a very conservative approach should be taken to offering such therapy to people under a fairly high age of consent. Probably at least 25 for things like gender-reassignment or gay-conversion.

    See my last post. They don't have any therapy. It's just lies. So your comparisons there is a false one. Just imagine if they had a working therapy. Can it be applied in other areas? Could they make me never like chocolate ever again and make me like broccoli instead? If so, how do they do it? How did they come up with this therapy? What's the science behind it? If I wanted to be a priest and be celibate for the rest of my life could they help me not fancy what I fancy and not fancy anything else - through therapy? No they can't - because they have no technique to achieve these types of things -it's all lies and totally absurd.


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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm curious... is this conversion therapy just for gay men, or also for women?

    Oh, I picked it should be banned. I've heard too many accounts from gay men being forced to be 'straight', to ever have any tolerance for this kind of 'treatment'.


  • #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You should be able to get it on the medical card..


  • #44
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    AllForIt wrote: »
    See my last post. They don't have any therapy. It's just lies. So your comparisons there is a false one. Just imagine if they had a working therapy. Can it be applied in other areas? Could they make me never like chocolate ever again and make me like broccoli instead? If so, how do they do it? How did they come up with this therapy? What's the science behind it? If I wanted to be a priest and be celibate for the rest of my life could they help me not fancy what I fancy and not fancy anything else - through therapy? No they can't - because they have no technique to achieve these types of things -it's all lies and totally absurd.

    If you had a relative and they were an adult but couldn't accept being gay and were deeply unhappy. Would you support them in doing this? If it was what what they wanted.


  • #45
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    If you had a relative and they were an adult but couldn't accept being gay and were deeply unhappy. Would you support them in doing this? If it was what what they wanted.

    I would support them doing it if they believed it would make them happy but would make them fully aware theres no evidence what so ever it will make them straight


  • #46
    jaxxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    1/3 of the votes are unsure/no. What the actual f**k???? How can you justify such barbaric practices like conversion therapy?? WTF is wrong with these people???? I never even knew it was a thing in Ireland till I saw this thread. I know we're a backward country but not that backward!


  • #47
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    If you had a relative and they were an adult but couldn't accept being gay and were deeply unhappy. Would you support them in doing this? If it was what what they wanted.

    Thing is, isn't that more an example of an actual mental health issue in itself? Accepting sexuality would be far more relevant and addressing why you aren't comfortable with sexuality.


  • #48
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy




  • #49
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I would support them doing it if they believed it would make them happy but would make them fully aware theres no evidence what so ever it will make them straight

    I would do the same thing as you!


  • #50
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,524 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    I don't see any reason why it should be banned that couldn't also be applied to other areas of psychiatry and psychology where the efficacy rate is about the same in terms of a persons emotional and mental health. That is to say - the methods and techniques used aren't very effective for the.purposes for which they are used or intended.

    I don't particularly care for it one way or the other to be honest. I wouldn't care if it was banned, and I wouldn't care if it wasn't. I would be more concerned if the individuals practicing it were exploiting people, or if individuals were being exploited, or if it's acceptance in society led to tbe exploitation of individuals, but then that same accusation could be levelled at any ideology one would care to mention, so I don't see any particular need to focus in solely on sexual orientation therapy.

    I've no doubt it could be couched in more pseudoscientific or social justice language to make it more socially acceptable and marketable to the masses who are looking to buy into an ideology like that.


  • #51
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    Thing is, isn't that more an example of an actual mental health issue in itself? Accepting sexuality would be far more relevant and addressing why you aren't comfortable with sexuality.

    To be honest I'm unsure of how to reply to this but some people who enters these might do it because they might think it's the only way to make them happy.


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  • #52
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I'm somebody who gets a serious effin itch when something is seen as something to be banned from the top down by Mammy™ in the form of the government, but I have to say in this case I'm not so itchy.

    That's on the personal level. And on that level I'd ban the notion from space with extreme prejudice. Why?

    1) it's almost certainly not going to "work". Maybe it might "work" for someone who was bisexual, if only that they would deny that part of themselves. Hell, maybe it would even "work" for some individuals like that who wanted, nay needed to deny that part of themselves? For cultural/social/religious/internal morality reasons?
    2) straight outa the gate it's essentially saying being gay is a fault, a condition, an illness. One that needs "therapy". That doesn't sit right with me at all. That would be my main gripe TBH.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #53
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    To be honest I'm unsure of how to reply to this but some people who enters these might do it because they might think it's the only way to make them happy.
    I get your point FPC, but that in itself is another can of worms.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #54
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 13,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    It’s grossly misguided at best, despicable and evil at worst. There should really be no debate on this issue.

    The 23% who voted no - hang your collective ignorant homophobic heads in deep shame.


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    It’s grossly misguided at best, despicable and evil at worst. There should really be no debate on this issue.

    The 23% who voted yes - hang your collective ignorant homophobic heads in deep shame.

    I think the number is inaccurate because it's slightly confusing. I nearly voted "no" because I assumed the question was about it it should exist, and you just made the same mistake.


  • #56
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    jaxxx wrote: »
    1/3 of the votes are unsure/no. What the actual f**k???? How can you justify such barbaric practices like conversion therapy?? WTF is wrong with these people???? I never even knew it was a thing in Ireland till I saw this thread. I know we're a backward country but not that backward!

    I don't think it's very common. I know a lad who looked into it years ago but it was all in the US. I think I heard it being discussed on TV3 a few weeks ago and that's what made me think of it again!


  • #57
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Conversion therapy should not be allowed for several reasons.
    The presumption that someone who is gay is somehow sick or wrong. It's like thinking "I'll bring my cat to the vet and he'll fix it".
    So that angle doesn't fly. Not since the 1950's.

    Second, could any of you imagine going to therapy to make you gay?
    Nothing more needs to be said. You want to argue this point? I refer you back to the beginning if this point.

    And lastly and most importantly:
    Would you bring your kids there? To some whackjob religious headbangers who think you can pray the gay away?
    Then your children should he taken off you with immediate effect. Because that would be a big part of their business. Worried, bible-thumping parents.
    If someone is struggling with their sexuality and they want treatment, they should visit a proper therapist, not some whacko religious cult who pull their "wisdom"out of their arse or some book written 5000 years ago by some stoned shepherds.
    Practically you can't ban this in particular, but you could make it illegal for anyone who isn't a proper doctor, psychologist or psychotherapist to offer any kind of therapy.
    That would put a stop to a lot of this arsing around by clueless amateurs who more harm than good.


  • #58
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    To be honest I'm unsure of how to reply to this but some people who enters these might do it because they might think it's the only way to make them happy.

    Isnt that exploiting their poor emotional well being?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #59
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,570 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    No, (once they're making their own choice to attend) because I support peoples' right to choose what they want for themselves, even though I strongly believe it shouldn't be offered and that anyone offering it as a form of therapy is an unrelenting gobshytte. I'd put it at the more dangerous end of the same category as crystal therapy, homeopathy, chiropractic, religion, and anti-vax. I'd be happier if they didn't exist, but ultimately it's people's choice to subscribe to such ideas.

    I'd certainly support a ban on any government sponsored programmes, if there was a danger of something like that happening.


  • #60
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    To be honest I'm unsure of how to reply to this but some people who enters these might do it because they might think it's the only way to make them happy.


    It's kind of like the person who thinks they will be happy if they get that nosejob but after a momentary elation at getting the surgery, they slip back to the same issues in terms of confidence and self loathing. Trying to get some self acceptance and getting some therapy to work on same would probably have been a better way to spend their money.


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  • #61
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    It’s grossly misguided at best, despicable and evil at worst. There should really be no debate on this issue.

    The 23% who voted no - hang your collective ignorant homophobic heads in deep shame.

    Do you think gender reassignment surgery should be banned?

    Do you think any sort of counselling around gender reassignment should be banned?

    If we are allowing gender to be fluent, why aren't we allowing sexual orientation to be fluid? Why should be prevent one form of therapy and allow another?

    Of course, some will say they are different things, but by banning one, you are cutting some personal freedom.

    I am therefore inclined towards not banning it, but have voted unsure, as I am open to further argument on this.


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