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The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

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  • #2342
    Boards.ie: Mark
    Boards.ie Employee, Boards Employee 2, Boards Employee 3 Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Mark
    Boards.ie Employee


    For what it's worth, that particular forum was used by users in testing the Responsive Site rather than by the development team. You'll occasionally see them post threads there or in the Test forum. But there's also testing done on local machines too.

    The Responsive Site is being overhauled, so any change will come as a sweeping redesign (but still likely in stages) based on feedback received rather than tweaks. There is always development work going on as well as fixes that are needed.

    If you run into technical issues, please highlight them in the Site Development forum. Some are more urgent than others so there is prioritising that has to be done too.

    How can I? User's guide to some features on the new site



  • #2343
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,254 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Boards.ie: Mark wrote: »
    For what it's worth, that particular forum was used by users in testing the Responsive Site rather than by the development team. You'll occasionally see them post threads there or in the Test forum. But there's also testing done on local machines too.

    The Responsive Site is being overhauled, so any change will come as a sweeping redesign (but still likely in stages) based on feedback received rather than tweaks. There is always development work going on as well as fixes that are needed.

    If you run into technical issues, please highlight them in the Site Development forum. Some are more urgent than others so there is prioritising that has to be done too.

    I'd say abandon it completely Mark to be very honest. Stop wasting the time trying to fix what is fundamentally broken (based on most of the feedback at the time and any I've seen since)

    Fix the "legacy" Desktop site (specifically the top-level menu) and put the effort into improving the touch site or a decent app.

    I would be interested in the question above though.. it seems like there's a list a mile long of things to get done, but yet nothing ever seems to progress. Is this down to staffing, or a lack of clear prioritisation and overall direction?


  • #2344
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Beasty wrote: »
    but beyond that there does not seem anything more to add to the discussion that has already taken place in the thread.

    This is more of the attitude that is going to kill boards.ie. Too many mods closing threads because the subject is boring them or they don't agree with the points being made.
    Mods need to realize that if they intervene in a thread too much, it eventually becomes their soapbox because they hold the power to switch off opinion.
    And this in fact happens quite a lot. It turned the Politics Café forum into an echo chamber and mod soapbox.


  • #2345
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2346
    Boards.ie: Mark
    Boards.ie Employee, Boards Employee 2, Boards Employee 3 Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Mark
    Boards.ie Employee


    Without trying to get into pointscoring, all versions of the site migrated to HTTPS, we've prototyped implementing Google Search, subscriptions were automatically added once again after Paypal made a change that broke everything, issues surrounding anonymous posting from IPv6 addresses fixed, 404 errors reduced significantly (I won't say "completely" because it's inevitable that either someone will pop up to say it's happening to them or I'll jinx it :D), and a range of other fixes big and small, on top of the development work on responsive and mobile sites.

    You're right in saying that a lot of the work isn't visible to a lot of users - some of the things addressed would be obvious if they weren't looked at, while others would only be to those impacted - but it is happening.

    How can I? User's guide to some features on the new site



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  • #2347
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,693 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    can we have some kind of ruling to ban changing the name of threads for no reason. its getting out of hand. 30 day ban


  • #2348
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    can we have some kind of ruling to ban changing the name of threads for no reason. its getting out of hand. 30 day ban

    No. You'll pry my thread changing abilities from my cold dead hands.

    Now to change the name of every thread started in AH by you.:D


  • #2349
    Kuva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Kuva


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    can we have some kind of ruling to ban changing the name of threads for no reason. its getting out of hand. 30 day ban

    Ha? The OP or Mods is doing it? Why?


  • #2350
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Kuva wrote: »
    Ha? The OP or Mods is doing it? Why?

    For fun. Also Boom retired from AH today and may have caused some divilment. Every name change is done in fun with no malice intended and if you are subbed to a thread it doesn't alter it.


  • #2351
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,693 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Conspectus wrote: »
    For fun. Also Boom retired from AH today and may have caused some divilment. Every name change is done in fun with no malice intended and if you are subbed to a thread it doesn't alter it.

    i know its only a bit of fun but its bloody annoying sometimes


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  • #2352
    Jack Kanoff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Jack Kanoff


    Not that it concerns me directly anymore, but I think someone should take a look at the absolute mess that is the soccer forum and their ideas of closing team threads during the big Main Utd v Liverpool game this weekend...can't see that being a good idea and def not well received


  • #2353
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,734 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    i know its only a bit of fun but its bloody annoying sometimes

    bloody annoyingly brilliant!

    But I suppose, as this is the feedback thread, if there is enough call for it to stopped then it should be listened to and then ignored because it's gas crack


  • #2354
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,011 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Jack Kanoff wrote: »
    Not that it concerns me directly anymore, but I think someone should take a look at the absolute mess that is the soccer forum and their ideas of closing team threads during the big Main Utd v Liverpool game this weekend...can't see that being a good idea and def not well received

    So much for listening to us. Beasty will accuse me again of trolling but that decision totally undermines all the positives that have been posted. Allowing match chat in the Club forums was one of the best moves ever made.

    Imagine trying to discuss something from memory whenever the Admins decide it's allowed.


  • #2355
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Discodog wrote: »
    So much for listening to us.
    Have you completely missed the feedback thread running there?


  • #2356
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,011 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Have you completely missed the feedback thread running there?

    No of course not & I have posted in it. But it's an Admin Diktat, with no prior warning or opportunity to discuss. Feedback is about things that can be changed not something that has already been decided. And it's come at a time when we have been told that Boards is listening.

    Even worse it comes with a "you aren't going to like this but we are doing it anyway message"


  • #2357
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Just to let you know I'll be closing this again in a couple of days unless there's something raised in the meantime warranting further discussion. I'll again try and set out where we are on certain points and how we are dealing with the various outstanding points identified


  • #2358
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Looking forward to the comprehensive and detailed response that the length of time it has taken to come back to us has promised.


  • #2359
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    gandalf wrote: »
    Looking forward to the comprehensive and detailed response that the length of time it has taken to come back to us has promised.
    Just to be clear all that was "promised" was set out when I reopened the thread at the end of February. That was feedback on the comments made before it's initial closure

    I still need to work through any additional issues raised. As I indicated earlier the fact this thread as well as the Open Discussion on Feedback have been running while we've had another issue to deal with means we need some time to further digest the various points raised. In due course I hope we can deliver an action plan covering everything we're looking to deal with.


  • #2360
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,034 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Beasty wrote:
    I still need to work through any additional issues raised. As I indicated earlier the fact this thread as well as the Open Discussion on Feedback have been running while we've had another issue to deal with means we need some time to further digest the various points raised. In due time i hope we can deliver an action plan covering everything we're looking to deal with.

    I'll be honest, what went on with respect to the soccer forum has me concerned that there is a very wide gap between what the Boards office want, and what the users want.
    And I say that as someone who doesn't post in that forum but reads it.


  • #2361
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Beasty wrote: »
    Just to be clear all that was "promised" was set out when I reopened the thread at the end of February. That was feedback on the comments made before it's initial closure

    I still need to work through any additional issues raised. As I indicated earlier the fact this thread as well as the Open Discussion on Feedback have been running while we've had another issue to deal with means we need some time to further digest the various points raised. In due course I hope we can deliver an action plan covering everything we're looking to deal with.

    So in reality without specific time limited achievable and realistic goals this is the same situation as Davs mystical list from previous feedback that we were then told by Niamh never existed.

    Show us an actual list of outcomes with deadlines for completion and I will then view this as a worthwhile exercise.

    At the moment it's non specific and really feels like the forums version of masturbation without the payoff.


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  • #2362
    Snowseer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭Snowseer


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I would be interested in the question above though.. it seems like there's a list a mile long of things to get done, but yet nothing ever seems to progress. Is this down to staffing, or a lack of clear prioritisation and overall direction?

    It’s one of those things. You can’t please all of the people all of the time. Let’s say thanks to the people making boards work for so many users, and mostly for free.

    I use touch boards all of the time, and it’s fine. Yeah, there are a few things that could make it better (and I should really be less lazy, and post them in Feedback), but I get a great service from boards. For free!

    I first joined in about 2009, and there was a really nice community here. Now, I think the users have too much of a sense of entitlement. Maybe the snowflake generation is affecting us all.


  • #2363
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    gandalf wrote: »

    Show us an actual list of outcomes with deadlines for completion and I will then view this as a worthwhile exercise.
    Did you actually read my prior update? I delivered exactly what I said I would in the timescale I promised. My aim is to continue doing do or if for any reason that's not possible to notify posters of the case hopefully with a reasoning.

    Yes things take time. I would have closed this thread earlier to allow us to start moving things forward but I've been in Amsterdam with my youngster since Friday. I'm in the UK for business tomorrow and the match on Tuesday. When I get back on Wednesday I'll have a couple if days before I head back to the UK for the FA Cup QF with my son. I'll also be taking him for a bit more cycling training and not getting back until the Monday

    I know it's a worn record but I do have a life outside of Boards

    However I do reiterate - I will always aim at delivering on anything I promise


  • #2364
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Hang on but as far as I am concerned there are more than you involved in this Beasty. Why can't one of the others take the running of this. I've acknowledged the sterling work you have done and there is a PAID community manager who I would have expected to be the one doing the heavy lifting on this.

    My comments are aimed at the whole management and not directed at you personally. Now if you choose to take them personally that is your prerogative.

    Given the false dawns we have been subjected to in the past you cannot be surprised at my attitude, IMHO the management of this site are starting off from the lowest trust baseline because of previous inactivity and quite frankly ignoring good feedback that has been given by valuable contributors.


  • #2365
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Snowseer wrote: »
    I first joined in about 2009, and there was a really nice community here. Now, I think the users have too much of a sense of entitlement. Maybe the snowflake generation is affecting us all.

    One thing I think people miss when giving feedback on moderation is that, yeah, boards.ie probably does go fairly easy on moderators. They have to keep these unpaid employees sweet somehow considering they don't pay them. Who would stick around in an unpaid position and take loads of flack of boards.ie management? I know I wouldn't.


  • #2366
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    gandalf wrote: »
    Hang on but as far as I am concerned there are more than you involved in this Beasty. Why can't one of the others take the running of this. I've acknowledged the sterling work you have done and there is a PAID community manager who I would have expected to be the one doing the heavy lifting on this.

    My comments are aimed at the whole management and not directed at you personally. Now if you choose to take them personally that is your prerogative.

    Given the false dawns we have been subjected to in the past you cannot be surprised at my attitude, IMHO the management of this site are starting off from the lowest trust baseline because of previous inactivity and quite frankly ignoring good feedback that has been given by valuable contributors.
    Just to add one point here. We do discuss things behind the scenes. In this case I was speaking for myself because I wanted to respond while I had the chance given I had previously suggested this thread would be closed by now

    There has though been an issue that has recently come to our attention that a number of Admins as well as Office staff have been dealing with which has probably curtailed their opportunities to get more into this thread since it was reopened. However they knew I was trying to keep on top of things here and would loop them in if I thought it necessary

    We will though try to spend a bit of time now to come up with that action plan I was referring to


  • #2367
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Just to add I also know Mark in the office has been pulling together that mod handbook/guidelines we indicated would be updated. I still need to input there as I've been busy on other things.


  • #2368
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Discodog wrote: »
    No of course not & I have posted in it. But it's an Admin Diktat, with no prior warning or opportunity to discuss. Feedback is about things that can be changed not something that has already been decided. And it's come at a time when we have been told that Boards is listening.

    Even worse it comes with a "you aren't going to like this but we are doing it anyway message"
    I'm back on my laptop now and will jsu explain a little behind what happened in the Soccer Forum last week

    Firstly yes there was discussion in last year's Soccer forum feedback thread and following that discussion the forum rules ere changed to allow match discussion in the team Superthreads

    As the season progressed the mods received feedback that some posters thought this was creating even more of an "us and them" situation, and creating more division within the forum. This view was backed up by the mods, who noticed opportunities were been taken in the Superthreads to snipe at fans of other clubs

    This was being discussed amongst the mods and I, based on what I've seen over a number of years, suggested trying closing Superthreads on a trial basis to see if that improved anything

    Some have suggested choosing this weekend's match between Man United and Liverpool was a bad idea. However in my view, and indeed the views of the mods. we decided this was most certainly the best match to trial. The reasons being that those teams have the largest fan bases on Boards. To choose only one of them for this trial would cause disquiet between the two sets of fans. To choose a match which does not include these two clubs would essentially establish very little

    Initially thought was given to simply closing the Superthreads shortly before the match and directing fans to the match thread. I stepped in and said I thought there should be plenty of notice given, and hence I posted a notice on Thursday.

    I did not want to pre-judge anything so I indicated no discussion would be allowed about the trial ahead of the match

    Obviously both sets of fans did not take kindly to the suggestion and started discussing the issue against my instruction (and the reason for that instruction was to give the trial a chance without being pre-judged)

    By the time the thread was opened up for discussion I was on my travels. In the circumstances I was supportive of the decision to open up the thread and eventually to reverse the decision

    So there we have it - the initial decision was taken based on poster feedback, the decision to overturn it was based on poster feedback. Yes I'm the bad guy in all of this, but TBH I didn't think there was a better way to handle it. With hindsight some will have a different view.

    So that's my side, and I'm not going to discuss this further here, except to correct any inaccuracies anyone may post


  • #2369
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Just coming back to this thread now. I had planned closing it earlier, but some comments in the "Feedback format" thread led me to believe posters would wish to cover again the point raised on closing threads in AH. Having said that it is a point that had already been picked up in this thread again since it was re-opened. Unfortunately we are still seeing comments about too much mod intervention alongside other requests for mods to deal more harshly with what some posters perceive as trolling. It's a fine balance and these are areas where we will never be able to keep everyone happy. I re-iterate a point I have made frequently here, these are areas for the mods to take decisions, alas in the knowledge they are likely to face criticism whatever they do

    I think the only other new material issue that has been raised concerned discussion of ongoing cases in overseas jurisdictions, where hullaballoo did provide a detailed response earlier in the thread which I'm not going to repeat here

    I'm not for one minute claiming mod decisions are always the best they could take. Sometimes though it can be easy to be blindsided by a reaction to mod actions (with the Soccer Forum issue raised here being a good example)

    There really has been little more in the way of new points raised here since the update I provided when re-opening the thread at the end of February

    Just to explain where we now are on some of the points I mentioned then

    Feedback format - the thread that's been running in Open Feedback should shortly be concluded and I'm expecting us to be able to confirm a revised format shortly. I also think we should provide further clarity on the purpose of other forums such as Help Desk and Site Development

    On the topic of mod consistency, I think the discussion within the mods forum has reached it's conclusion. Mark in the office is finalising the new "Mod Handbook" which hopefully will encourage more areas of consistency in moderation, but as I've said repeatedly there are always going to be different rules applied within different forums, and sometimes mods will need to "control" discussion more, either because of sensitivities over the underlying topic, or the forum itself adopting stricter rules (which may be on the back of local feedback thread). The nature of discussion in some forums can require a lot more mod oversight and intervention

    On thread locking I've previously indicated that explanations should be given, and if an assurance is provided that a thread will be re-opened that should be done, or a detailed explanation of why it cannot happen be provided. I would expect some of the mod teams to be thinking a bit more before closing threads and making sure there is a good reason for doing so. I would add though that it does very often happen on the back of "feedback" via reported posts

    Beyond that, I don't think there's a great deal to add to my earlier post linked above. The areas I think we next need to move forward with are the streamlining of the site with the removal/closure of dead forums, and revisiting the list of inactive mods. Mark has been working on Hosted Forums following the earlier Open Feedback thread on the subject. I think once we wrap up the Feedback format thread these are the areas we need to focus on.

    There remains a debate to be had on Politics Café, and that may take place under a revised Feedback format.

    I know some posters are demanding a detailed action list with deadlines and the like, but that is never going to work when many of the actions are falling at the feet of volunteers be they Admins, CMods or Mods. It may be different for people who make a living out of Boards, but equally I'm sure they have plenty of other things to consider and need to prioritise their time accordingly

    I'm proposing leaving this thread open for a few more days to allow posters to follow up on some of the points I've made, but again would look to provide an update a little further down the line, perhaps around the end of April.


  • #2370
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Restarting this again because to be frank the standard of moderation of political divisive threads in after hours is none existent. At this stage it is obvious that all political threads need to be diverted to politics and be dealt with there under its tougher standards of posting rules. At the moment the craven limp wristed moderation is destroying any sort of discussion on this site. The levels of deflection, misdirection and outright trolling in some of the threads here is shocking and the fact the current mods, admins and management are allowing it to occur is a betrayal of all those who volunteered for those roles in the past.


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  • #2371
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    gandalf wrote: »
    Restarting this again because to be frank the standard of moderation of political divisive threads in after hours is none existent. At this stage it is obvious that all political threads need to be diverted to politics and be dealt with there under its tougher standards of posting rules. At the moment the craven limp wristed moderation is destroying any sort of discussion on this site. The levels of deflection, misdirection and outright trolling in some of the threads here is shocking and the fact the current mods, admins and management are allowing it to occur is a betrayal of all those who volunteered for those roles in the past.
    I'll happily get rid of them if that's what the users want.

    We keep them because of "big" events, but the threads always go on for ages, could just close them.


This discussion has been closed.
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