Pre welfare state

timthumbni · 18-03-2018 12:59PM #1

The welfare state started in the uk anyway just after the 2nd World War I think.

How did those that did not work survive before this.?

suicide_circus · 18-03-2018 12:59PM

They didnt

Hitman3000 · 18-03-2018 01:02PM

timthumbni wrote:

How did those that did not work survive before this.?

Children were looked upon as your 'pension '. Children's job ( in some cultures) to support ageing and infirm parents.

facehugger99 · 18-03-2018 01:04PM

Charities and relatives mainly.

shaunr68 · 18-03-2018 01:05PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse

My grandfather was born in the Liverpool workhouse in 1915.

Ajsoprano · 18-03-2018 01:07PM

They cultured diseases to give to the rich.

timthumbni · 18-03-2018 01:08PM

The reason I started the thread was that I was watching a tv show set in Victorian times and it struck me how did those that did not or could not get a job actually survived.

Contrasts greatly to those housed/fed/ entertained with a massive tv nowadays. All at public expense.

Avatar MIA · 18-03-2018 01:11PM

Prostitution, theft, death. Joining the army was a great source of income for a host of people, including the Irish within the BA.

Great times really.

Avatar MIA · 18-03-2018 01:12PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Contrasts greatly to those housed/fed/ entertained with a massive tv nowadays. All at public expense.

Get fired from your job and you too can enjoy this life.

facehugger99 · 18-03-2018 01:13PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Contrasts greatly to those housed/fed/ entertained with a massive tv nowadays. All at public expense.

Yes, and it’s far better nowadays.

I’m more than willing to put up with some minor abuse of our current system than seeing people starving to death on our streets.

timthumbni · 18-03-2018 01:13PM

When did the welfare state begin in the republic? Which country/culture actually was the first to introduce welfare payments or something similar for those in need?

Avatar MIA · 18-03-2018 01:15PM

timthumbni wrote: »

When did the welfare state begin in the republic? Which country/culture actually was the first to introduce welfare payments or something similar for those in need?

Arguably the Romans did with their Bread and Circuses policy, for the same reason modern governments provide social welfare :pac:

timthumbni · 18-03-2018 01:16PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

Contrasts greatly to those housed/fed/ entertained with a massive tv nowadays. All at public expense.

Yes, and it’s far better nowadays.

I’m more than willing to put up with some minor abuse of our current system than seeing people starving to death on our streets.

Of course you are correct. I just never thought before the welfare state of how anyone not in paid employment actually survived.

elperello · 18-03-2018 01:18PM

You need to read up on social history. Local library will be useful.
You might start with some accounts of life in your own locality about 100 years ago.
I doubt you will find anything to suit your agenda though.
We are not going back.

timthumbni · 18-03-2018 01:21PM

elperello wrote: »

You need to read up on social history. Local library will be useful.
You might start with some accounts of life in your own locality about 100 years ago.
I doubt you will find anything to suit your agenda though.
We are not going back.

I don’t have an agenda and I realise we are not “going back” as you put it. Calm down dear...

I simply was posing a question about past times.

18-03-2018 01:24PM

I had to study this, religious organizations and after the dissolution of the monasteries it was outdoor relief mostly in the winter given in each parish and the person has to be from the parish then it was the workhouses. The pension was introduced in 1909 they had to be over 70.

[/url] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_John_Barnardo

Orphans or sometimes children were put by parents were apprenticed out at a very young age.

The British army the poverty draft.

people went hungry and suffered from malnutrition.

At the bottom level, people weaved in and out from employment to low-level crime and back again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Labour_and_the_London_Poor

elperello · 18-03-2018 01:28PM

timthumbni wrote: »

The reason I started the thread was that I was watching a tv show set in Victorian times and it struck me how did those that did not or could not get a job actually survived.

Contrasts greatly to those housed/fed/ entertained with a massive tv nowadays. All at public expense.

No agenda here at all.

18-03-2018 01:28PM

In Ireland, they had community welfare officers and people were expected to sell their possession before they got help.

Ireland largely followed the Brittish system.

timthumbni · 18-03-2018 01:29PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

When did the welfare state begin in the republic? Which country/culture actually was the first to introduce welfare payments or something similar for those in need?

Arguably the Romans did with their Bread and Circuses policy, for the same reason modern governments provide social welfare :pac:

Interesting. When it comes down to it everything seems to come back to the Romans.

Brian? · 18-03-2018 01:30PM

junk_sales_man wrote: »

pre welfare state , travellers actually worked for a living , there were less of them too due to no incentives

How in the name of Jaysus did you manage to shoe horn in an anti traveller post already?

timthumbni · 18-03-2018 01:31PM

elperello wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

The reason I started the thread was that I was watching a tv show set in Victorian times and it struck me how did those that did not or could not get a job actually survived.

Contrasts greatly to those housed/fed/ entertained with a massive tv nowadays. All at public expense.

No agenda here at all.

Well as I said I don’t have one. This thread is about the past and how people survived. Feel free not to look if you are offended.

18-03-2018 01:31PM

There was a large element of blaming people for their poverty, the deserving and undeserving poor and the ideas that some were living off the ratepayer, as ratepayer had to maintain the workhouses.

The religious laundry did not just take in 'fallen women' they often had women who were not wanted by their family or had no other options because of poverty.

Visconti · 18-03-2018 01:35PM

junk_sales_man wrote: »

pre welfare state , travellers actually worked for a living , there were less of them too due to no incentives

Plenty of travellers have their own businesses and pay tax. Tarmac , Doing gutters and facia / soffit, selling machinery etc nobody will give traveller a job so the good ones (and there are some good ones) have to set up their own businesses.
Plenty of settled people are bleeding the system, having children for financial reward, stealing and generally just being the low class gutter level scum that they are.

Hitman3000 · 18-03-2018 01:42PM

timthumbni wrote:

When did the welfare state begin in the republic? Which country/culture actually was the first to introduce welfare payments or something similar for those in need?

1889 Bismarck introduced the pension for over 70's in Germany. For Ireland we just followed the British.

archer22 · 18-03-2018 01:43PM

If you look at census returns from that time you will notice that a large percentage of husbands were much older than their wives...this appears to have been a way of ensuring that both did not grow old and infirm at the same time...the wife was still young enough to take care of the husband when he was old and the children only had the mother to look after when her time came.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 18-03-2018 01:43PM

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elperello · 18-03-2018 01:43PM

mariaalice wrote: »

There was a large element of blaming people for their poverty, the deserving and undeserving poor and the ideas that some were living off the ratepayer, as ratepayer had to maintain the workhouses.

Plus ca change.

18-03-2018 01:44PM

Visconti wrote: »

Plenty of travellers have their own businesses and pay tax. Tarmac , Doing gutters and facia / soffit, selling machinery etc nobody will give traveller a job so the good ones (and there are some good ones) have to set up their own businesses.
Plenty of settled people are bleeding the system, having children for financial reward, stealing and generally just being the low class gutter level scum that they are.

Thats want they said about the poor in Victorian time despite there being no welfare, in the middle ages the peasants aroused the same sort of disgust in some, its nothing to do with 'what' they are getting it seems to be something about human nature to focus on others.

18-03-2018 01:46PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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We just inherited the system it was easier than reinventing it, P45 P60 etc.

Hitman3000 · 18-03-2018 01:47PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote:

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Well sometimes you just look at something and say if it ain't broke don't fix it.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 18-03-2018 01:52PM

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Pre welfare state

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