New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

j8wk2feszrnpao · 09-02-2018 10:36AM

I see the logic, but we were getting torched. Change it. Put Butler in. I can't see how it could have gotten worse.
I agree on the explanation; we'll never hear about it

eagle eye · 09-02-2018 10:45AM

Well the claim that it was disciplinary was blown out of the water because even Butler himself claims there was no infringement. It was just the regular twitter bs and some people chow down on the word of somebody who was right about things a couple of times.
I was reading that Brandon Browner had a bit of a rant mentioning things you can get disciplined for in New England and that other people assumed he knew what happened and did their 2+2 and got 5.
Browner has since had to clarify that he knew nothing and was talking about his own time there.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 09-02-2018 12:03PM

Another theory I heard (which is the most realistic of all so far) was that BB wanted a bigger corner so told Butler before the game he wouldn't be starting. Butler then apparently reacted poorly which led to BB leaving on the bench for the whole game. Again the evidence does refute this to a point but it's still the most likely reason I've heard so far for Butler not playing a defensive snap.

I really hope there was a reason for it all, because if there isn't it reflects very poorly on BB. You really have to be one hell of a dickhead to bench someone for the biggest game of the season (and who plays in the unit that was getting torched) for no reason at all. I don't care what anyone says, there is absolutely no way it was done for football reasons.

AbusesToilets · 09-02-2018 01:16PM

The problem I have with that theory is Butler has never been pulled from games with similar player types. Pittsburg, Carolina, Atlanta, Jacksonville etc. Why now, in the SB, would Bill decide to not play, at all, a CB who has previously played in almost 100% of the teams snaps prior to that? Makes no sense.

StringerBell · 09-02-2018 02:01PM

It makes no sense to us, because we are not working with all the info. In all likelihood we will never know the full story so it will always be something of a mystery and bone of contention.

Two things I am sure of in this

1. BB would have taken whatever decision he felt gave the team the best chance at winning, this is what he has consistently done his entire career and I see no evidence to suggest this would be any different.

2. Butler would have done a better all round job then what we started the game with in Rowe.

09-02-2018 04:53PM

Great story imminating from Boston this morning

The Boston Herald ran with a story saying that Brady was going to boycott off season activities unless he got paid the same as Jimmy G is getting in San Fran.

Turns out it was a prankster who contacted the reporter and claimed to be Brady's agent Don Yee, who also happens to be JG's agent, and the reported ran with it to get the scoop

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/02/09/tom-brady-patriots-contract-holdout-borges-story-debunked-jimmy-garoppolo/

StringerBell · 09-02-2018 04:56PM

In what reality could that story have been true? The media do treat a lot of fans as idiots, and tbh a lot of fans don't exactly dispel the notion that they will swallow any old ****e that comes out.

09-02-2018 05:01PM

StringerBell wrote: »

In what reality could that story have been true? The media do treat a lot of fans as idiots, and tbh a lot of fans don't exactly dispel the notion that they will swallow any old ****e that comes out.

Because someone writers, and editors obviously, lose their minds when a potential scoop comes their way in this day and age.

Ron Borges is no rookie, his has been around a long time, he should know better, but the temptation must have go too much for him, especially in this week of questions about Bulter, McDaniels, BB future etc.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 09-02-2018 05:23PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because someone writers, and editors obviously, lose their minds when a potential scoop comes their way in this day and age.

So true. The Twitter age has taken over the written press as well. Race to the bottom in case they miss out on something.

TOss Sweep · 09-02-2018 06:24PM

Borges is a clown. Not the first time he jumped on something to try stir the pot.

TOss Sweep · 09-02-2018 06:33PM

It really doesn't matter which version of the Butler saga is true for me. Ok Bill decided he didn't want to start Butler because of previous effort or he wanted a bigger corner that is fine. But when things are going horribly wrong why not throw him in there? Even throw him in as the extra corner on nickel sets. It just is mind boggling you would put faith in a linebacker who cant cover and a corner in Bademosi who has is average at best. I don't get it and I don't think I ever will until Bill 20 years down the line gives us an explanation.

For me this is the hardest thing about the loss. We didn't have our strongest lineup on the field defensively at any point. So we will never know if the strongest team we have on paper could have won us that game. The whole situation is bizzare even for Bill in my eyes. We are used to his mad decisions but this one was way out in left field.

StringerBell · 09-02-2018 08:02PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because someone writers, and editors obviously, lose their minds when a potential scoop comes their way in this day and age.

Ron Borges is no rookie, his has been around a long time, he should know better, but the temptation must have go too much for him, especially in this week of questions about Bulter, McDaniels, BB future etc.

I didn't ask why media outlets run with ****e though, I asked in what reality could it have been true.

Papers don't refuse ink, ads don't refuse clicks.

Granted the rush to be first is making a serious casualty of the facts these days but the fans don't do themselves any favours by jumping on rubbish, particularly stuff spouted by that clown.

You see that headline and you should surely know its not worth your time clicking it?

StringerBell · 19-02-2018 01:40PM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000916673/article/mccourty-pats-knew-malcolm-butler-wasnt-starting-sb-lii

McCourty: Patriots knew Butler wasn't starting SB LII

Kevin Patra
Around the NFL writer

We still haven't heard the full explanation about why Malcolm Butler didn't play a defensive snap in Super Bowl LII, but there have been plenty of rumors.

New England Patriots safety Devin McCourty told NJ Advance Media he's heard the theories of the benching being disciplinary, but claims they're false. McCourty said he knew Butler wouldn't be starting.

"As far as I know, all of that is the furthest thing from the truth," McCourty said. "We all knew he wasn't starting all week. That wasn't a secret to the guys on the team.

"I get why people are fishing. The guy played 98 percent of the plays. I just hate that for him character-wise going into free agency. It's just not true. As far as I know -- and I was there all week -- not one time did anything come up."

Not starting Butler and not playing a defender who earned 97.8 percent of the snaps during the season at all are two slightly different things. The player comments in the immediate aftermath of the Super Bowl loss certainly didn't intimate teammates were aware of a plan in which Butler would be anchored to the sideline the entire game in advance. Perhaps McCourty being a defensive captain provided him more information than the rest of his teammates.

"It sucked for him," McCourty said of Butler. "He put a lot of time and effort in. However it falls, the last thing you want to do is not play a snap. To me, the worst part was to see all that (anonymous) stuff come out after."

Butler will head to free agency almost certain to leave the team he believes gave up on him.

TOss Sweep · 19-02-2018 05:48PM

I don't buy it. Seems like MCourty is just offering some diplomatic information being a captain and all. Patricia was quoted saying he only found out at game time and no.other player knew it was happening according to other sources. In fact Bill made it seem it was game time decision.

Either way there was no excuse for not playing him in some capacity. Whatever about not starting when things got ugly he should have played. There is not an ounce of damage control that will ever smooth this over.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 19-02-2018 06:17PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Either way there was no excuse for not playing him in some capacity. Whatever about not starting when things got ugly he should have played.

That's the thing. I can buy any gameplan theory they had to start the game (even if I disagree with it). But it wasn't working. We got torched for the entire game. Put him in; I can't see how he could have done worse than what was out there.

Son Of A Vidic · 21-02-2018 01:08PM

Yes it will never happen, but this is precisely why I would love an external DC coming in. No way I could see a new DC coming in and letting Bill tell them who they can or cannot put out on the field.

BizzyC · 27-02-2018 09:10AM

Ok, so in BB fashion "On to next season"...
We have a number of players entering FA:
PLAYER (14) POS. AGE
Nate Solder LT 29
Malcolm Butler CB 27
Rex Burkhead RB 27
Johnson Bademosi CB 27
Matthew Slater WR 32
Cameron Fleming T 25
Danny Amendola WR 32
Dion Lewis RB 27
Nate Ebner FS 28
LaAdrian Waddle RT 26
James Harrison OLB 39
Ricky Jean Francois DT 31
Geno Grissom DE 25
Marquis Flowers OLB 26

I think keeping Danny and Dion will be a big boost to keeping the O ticking next season, Solder would be a loss, but one I think we can manage through the draft. As long as Tom and Josh are there I wont be worrying too much about the O.
On D, Flowers is the only real name there that I'd be concerned about losing....I liked having Harrison around but wont be surprised if they let him go in favour of youth.
On D, we simply need better talent. Hightower is the only player in our front 7 who I think would get a spot on any team out there, and he's been out injured too much to be relied on. Add to that a non-stellar secondary and we're still in big trouble.
We should have a solid chunk of cap free next month with players like Bennet, Gillislee etc expected to get cut for a decent chunk of change. There's actually quite a few options at LB & DB in FA this year, many will be re-signed but there should be some decent options making it to the open market.
Who do you guys see as potential for a signing?

BaronVon · 27-02-2018 01:11PM

The talk is Solder will retire, but if he wants to play again, it will be with the Pats. Dola will sign, I'd imagine Slater will too. Bademosi and Ebner will probably re-sign too at the Vet minimum as both have good value on Special Teams.

I can't see us spending enough money to keep Lewis, although the RB market is funny, so I presume they send him out to find his worth, and come back to the Pats and see if they will match it.

I'd say Burkhead will be back too, he shouldn't cost too much, and is useful on all 3 downs.

Hazys · 27-02-2018 02:20PM

Apparently Gronk is considering a switch to the WWE...I'd be 90% sure he's coming back next season but there is an outside chance he doesn't. Hopefully this is all just a play for a new contract.

ELM327 · 27-02-2018 02:37PM

Hazys wrote: »

Apparently Gronk is considering a switch to the WWE...I'd be 90% sure he's coming back next season but there is an outside chance he doesn't. Hopefully this is all just a play for a new contract.

He's actually setting up a move to the XFL

TOss Sweep · 28-02-2018 05:04PM

BizzyC wrote: »

Ok, so in BB fashion "On to next season"...
We have a number of players entering FA:
PLAYER (14) POS. AGE
Nate Solder LT 29
Malcolm Butler CB 27
Rex Burkhead RB 27
Johnson Bademosi CB 27
Matthew Slater WR 32
Cameron Fleming T 25
Danny Amendola WR 32
Dion Lewis RB 27
Nate Ebner FS 28
LaAdrian Waddle RT 26
James Harrison OLB 39
Ricky Jean Francois DT 31
Geno Grissom DE 25
Marquis Flowers OLB 26

- I think we get 1 more year out of Solder if he doesn't retire
- Butler Gonzo
- Burkhead most likely to a low end contract stacked with playing incentives
- Bademosi low end contract as a ST. But he could be surplus to requirements
- Slater would probably play for free at this point
- Fleming replaceable so he take a low end contract or we cut him
- I think we will let Danny walk even though he would probably take a low end contract to stay
- Lewis depends on a lot of factors but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go elsewhere to get paid
- Ebner is a solid ST and will be kept
- Waddle I think we will keep
- Harrison would like to see him stay one more season and hopeful we keep him but wont be shocked if we dont
- Grissom spent 2017 bouncing from active to practice so who knows maybe more of the same
- Marquis Flowers like his name sake he actually had a great season. I can forgive him him for some of his mistakes in the bowl. Be worth keeping him around.

Trey Flowers we need to lock into a long term deal also if we can as he has 1 season left on his contract.

We need to hit the FA and start to find some deals as that defense needs an over haul

Offensively I think we lose both Gronk and Amendola this off season.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 28-02-2018 07:52PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Trey Flowers we need to lock into a long term deal also if we can as he has 1 season left on his contract.

He was the only person to get any significant degree of pass rush going last year. He has to be kept, but needs help; they need to get someone to pair him with.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Offensively I think we lose both Gronk and Amendola this off season.

I think Gronk will be back, and right now I'm not even worried about it.
Amendola might be gone. I reckon the Pats would like to keep him, but someone may offer more.

With huge problems on the D, that is the area of focus. It's just lacking real talent when a big play is needed. No surprise we missed Hightower when you think back to the huge plays he made in the recent SB wins. I'd love to see Bill move up and make that Hightower/Jones move again.

TOss Sweep · 28-02-2018 08:30PM

And you know seen as I said it today this happens and the complete opposite

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/968927067864817666

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
The expectation is that #Patriots TE Rob Gronkowski will return for 2018 after pondering his future, I’m told. He may never make a grand announcement, but the belief is entertainment opportunities (acting WWE) will wait.

TOss Sweep · 28-02-2018 08:32PM

I see Muhammad Wilkerson got released today. One guy I would like to see in New England.

TOss Sweep · 28-02-2018 11:13PM

Gronk tweeted "Clueless" haha

Many suggesting that he is saying clueless to the media.

And the rollercoaster continues. Definitely suited for the entertainment industry. Love it. Whatever he does good for him served us well either way.

AbusesToilets · 01-03-2018 02:47PM

I think Danny retires with us, I certainly hope he does. We manage his reps well, and he is so ****ing clutch it's beyond parody at this point.

Solder had one of his best seasons, from the eyeball test anyway. I hope he keeps playing.

StringerBell · 02-03-2018 01:17AM

Solder has been up and down for us over the years but was pretty good this season, I think one more season would suit both parties. He is by all accounts a great guy to have in the locker room and a leader on the team.

Gronk, hard to imagine Gronk being content not playing football, competing, Gronking. Gotta wonder about his physical well being though as he gets older, I think that concussion probably knocked him a little in terms of where he is at mentally but I expect him to come back through that. Its the other issues, his back, arm, knee etc. How much more can he realistically put his body through? He is a young man, set for life and with plenty of money making opportunities out there also. Still on the fence about whether he is gonna come back or not. Hope he does obviously.

Danny I want kept, and I am certain Josh and Brady would want kept. I also think Dola is happy to stay as long as the Pats play fair with him. He is sure to get decent offers but at his age probably nothing too mental,nothing the Pats couldn't match if they wanted to.

I think for continuity he is an important part of that offence to try and bring back for next year. Even more so if Gronk doesn't come back. Flowers should be kept, Slater will stay,Ebner also. I assume Bademosi will stick around.

I think Harrison will come back if he is wanted, Burkhead could be gone, Lewis I'd like to keep but wouldn't be surprised to see him get good money elsewhere. Butler is obviously gone.

AbusesToilets · 02-03-2018 12:26PM

Be interesting to see what sort of price the Seahawks are asking for Sherman. He would be a fabulous pick up, if we could swing it. Along with getting some good pass rushers in the draft/ FA, the D could be a top unit.

BizzyC · 02-03-2018 01:13PM

I agree, if we're going to have a shot we really need to up our Pass D.

Having Revis and Browner together allowed us more time to get pressure which made our entire D better.
Right now I think short of signing Von that we wont get pressure regardless of who we get in the draft unless we can play tougher coverage to slow down the release.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-03-2018 02:31PM

BizzyC wrote: »

Having Revis and Browner together allowed us more time to get pressure which made our entire D better.

And got McCourty his big pay day. He's not a bad player, but for the money he's getting, he doesn't make the required plays. He stunk in the SB as well.

New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

Comments