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The decline continues

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    #182
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Oh boy. Indo drops further

    Tonight's online headline - they found a comment on someone's Facebook page about a little scuffle on grafton st. and make it headline news.

    I doubt that even the daily muck would not go to those depths.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/he-tried-to-choke-me-with-my-scarf-woman-attacked-in-broad-daylight-on-grafton-street-36304715.html

    And indo wonders why its losing readers?


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    #183
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    Oh boy. Indo drops further

    Tonight's online headline - they found a comment on someone's Facebook page about a little scuffle on grafton st. and make it headline news.

    I doubt that even the daily muck would not go to those depths.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/he-tried-to-choke-me-with-my-scarf-woman-attacked-in-broad-daylight-on-grafton-street-36304715.html

    And indo wonders why its losing readers?

    And Indo wonders why it posted a second profit warning yesterday!


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    #184
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    The Sunday Times must have got one of The Sun subs on the desk this week - pun laden headlines 'Cork farmer accused of milking investors' etc - witty perhaps - possibly not in that platform


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    #185
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Be careful what you wish for - according to Britain Elects, 24% of people surveyed in the UK (and would imagine the stats would be similar here) get their news from Facebook, but only 11% trust it! Perhaps social media networks should voluntarily subscribe to press regulation codes, for the same vetting as their print and broadcast counterparts?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/932311673335054336


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    #186
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    Be careful what you wish for - according to Britain Elects, 24% of people surveyed in the UK (and would imagine the stats would be similar here) get their news from Facebook, but only 11% trust it! Perhaps social media networks should voluntarily subscribe to press regulation codes, for the same vetting as their print and broadcast counterparts?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/932311673335054336

    There was a great speech last week from the CEO of the Financial Times urging social media companies not to fool themselves into thinking they were not media companies, step one in regulations!


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    #187
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Brian Carey suggesting in today's ST that the IT may be getting cold feet about the Landmark deal:
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/indo-pitch-is-a-false-dawn-for-print-titles-tgzf3mclz
    The Irish Times has cash and listed investments of just over €20m, more than enough to buy Landmark. It is not flush enough, however, to support Landmark indefinitely. Small wonder the deal has moved so slowly. This is a big step for a traditionally conservative company.


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    #188
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    The article makes a very good point - an extra print plant - a dept laden one at that - is as useful to the Irish Times as tits on a bull.

    At this point we have we over the capacity needed to print newspapers in this country. If Webprint closed tomorrow the remaining titles being currently being printed there would easily find a slot on another press.


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    #189
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    Not a bad increase:

    "Parent company DMGT revealed this morning that the world’s most popular newspaper website made revenue of £119m in 2017, up from £93m in 2016, for the full year to 30 September 2017"

    "a £26 million increase in Mail Online’s revenues exceeding a £19 million decline in print advertising"

    In the Press Gazette


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    #190
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,775 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    IRE60 wrote: »
    Not a bad increase:

    "Parent company DMGT revealed this morning that the world’s most popular newspaper website made revenue of £119m in 2017, up from £93m in 2016, for the full year to 30 September 2017"

    "a £26 million increase in Mail Online’s revenues exceeding a £19 million decline in print advertising"

    In the Press Gazette

    the daily mail's profits are up and yes as you say the decline continues


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    #191
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,922 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    So the Times buys Landmark Media after all. Wonder will the SBP be next or not now.


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    #192
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    L1011 wrote: »
    So the Times buys Landmark Media after all. Wonder will the SBP be next or not now.

    Was going to start a new thread about this but there's no solid reason yet for thinking this deal is not part of the broader 'decline' story...


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    #193
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    the article in The Times is a little vague - did all the assets of landmark (inc the radio business) go to The Times?

    Now the Sunrise have a Sunday paper, a print-plant and an empty dance card!


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    #194
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,025 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    IRE60 wrote: »
    the article in The Times is a little vague - did all the assets of landmark (inc the radio business) go to The Times?

    Now the Sunrise have a Sunday paper, a print-plant and an empty dance card!

    The radio stations are included in the sale.


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    #195
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    The radio stations are included in the sale.

    Interesting move then, bit of leverage over the regional and radio newsrooms


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    #196
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,922 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Radio will be shifted I think, last time the IT had involvement (4FM's original, Radio Ireland mkII launch) turned sour fast.

    Murdoch is on the acquisition trail for further Irish stations and they fit in very nicely with the existing network.


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    #197
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    IRE60 wrote: »
    did all the assets of landmark (inc the radio business) go to The Times?

    All, no. Forestry assets were excluded. All newspaper, website and radio assets included. Seems bizarre that the Irish Times would want radio assets.


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    #198
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    What do we think will happen with regional papers? More cutbacks I suppose...


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    #199
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    What do we think will happen with regional papers? More cutbacks I suppose...

    It will take 6 months to close the deal, then possibly an onward sale to a regional publisher such as Iconic.


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    #200
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    JTMan wrote: »
    Seems bizarre that the Irish Times would want radio assets.

    ...it's one part of the media industry that isn't fcuked!


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    #201
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    IRE60 wrote: »
    ...it's one part of the media industry that isn't fcuked!

    Yet...


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    #202
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,775 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Micheál Martin: Legislation being developed to support 'independent, mainstream, factual, objective-based media' http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/micheal-martin-legislation-being-developed-to-support-independent-mainstream-factual-objective-based-media-465033.html

    "We are coming up with legislation to create a system whereby the newsprint industry would be supported by taxpayers"

    what has newsprint got to do with facts and objectivity?


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    #203
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    expectationlost wrote: »
    Micheál Martin: Legislation being developed to support 'independent, mainstream, factual, objective-based media' http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/micheal-martin-legislation-being-developed-to-support-independent-mainstream-factual-objective-based-media-465033.html

    "We are coming up with legislation to create a system whereby the newsprint industry would be supported by taxpayers"

    what has newsprint got to do with facts and obejctivity?

    Yeah, give taxpayers' money to online journalism and you'll be supporting the environment as well...


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    #204
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    Released just today ABC for July/Dec - edited highlights

    Sunday Independent 178,323 -6.9%
    Sunday World 133,946 -10.5%
    Sunday Business Post 29,619 -2.9%

    Irish Independent 90,107 -7.2%
    Irish Times 61,049 -7.9%
    Examiner 27,589 -8.3%

    Market still down 7% p.a - not a sustainable business model


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    #205
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    IRE60 wrote: »
    not a sustainable business model

    Agreed but what is next? Year after year we are seeing 7% declines. In any other industry there would have been mass bankruptcies by now but not the newspaper industry.

    What next? Does INM ditch the Herald, Irish Daily Star or Sunday World? Does The Irish Times shut down some of the Landmark Media Investments regionals? Do a few more regionals go belly up? Do some UK newspapers stop distributing in Ireland? Do some UK newspapers stop Irish version? or does the status quo limp on for another few years before we start to see end game play out?

    I want answers :)


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    #206
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    JTMan wrote: »
    Agreed but what is next? Year after year we are seeing 7% declines. In any other industry there would have been mass bankruptcies by now but not the newspaper industry.

    Yeah, if I had been asked to prognosticate on the future of the industry ten years ago, I would have been 100% sure the Examiner and the SBP would have been long gone before circulation fell below 30K. But they all somehow keep on trucking...


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    #207
    mrsdewinter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭mrsdewinter


    IRE60 wrote: »
    Released just today ABC for July/Dec - edited highlights

    Sunday Independent 178,323 -6.9%
    Sunday World 133,946 -10.5%
    Sunday Business Post 29,619 -2.9%

    Irish Independent 90,107 -7.2%
    Irish Times 61,049 -7.9%
    Examiner 27,589 -8.3%


    Market still down 7% p.a - not a sustainable business model

    Thanks for that - where can I check out the full list?


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    #208
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    mrsdewinter wrote: »
    Thanks for that - where can I check out the full list?

    Check out IE60's signature :D


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    #209
    Skedaddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Skedaddle


    It would actually be very helpful if some of the UK papers stopped producing Irish versions. They're providing relatively little original content but eating into a rapidly shrinking pie.

    The newspaper business is very quickly rolling towards extinction by the looks of the trends and none of them have really made a viable business online. They have the content but don't know how to make that work online. Even the Guardian has huge online presence but seems to be struggling to make that into a serious business.

    What's interesting in Ireland is thejournal.ie effectively and successfully duplicated the old print media model. Distilled Media owns Daft, by far and away the biggest property website in Ireland. Its starting look very like the traditional Irish print media setup of a company funded by property ads.

    If it grows in terms of producing good journalism and putting big resources in, it's likely to morph into a very serious news and dominant outlet in this market. I know people are quite dismissive of it because its early days were all about content with very limited resources, but it has big potential.


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    #210
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    JTMan wrote: »
    Check out IE60's signature :D
    on the advice of council..............:eek:


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    #211
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    A few bits pertaining to the above:

    On IN&M: Personally I think the potential sale of the titles owned by Northern Shell to Trinity may well spell the end of the ownership of the Daily Star by IN&M. The Overlords on Talbot St are delusional of they think The Herald can fill that gap should the DS fold. Their delusions are not limited to that topic I hasten to add.

    The SPB is a profitable enterprise – circulation is small, but so are the overheads.

    I’ll not be drawn on the whole ‘British titles’ think (see above ‘delusional’). The vast majority of papers published here are done under an Irish incorporates company.

    Which seaways nicely: is IN&M and Irish company – certainly incorporated here, but glance at the share register – what % of the shareholding is ‘Irish’ – so it’s a sticky topic.

    At the end of the day in the morning market, 47% papers sold are ‘British’ titles (galls me to phrase it that way). My conclusion is that half the Moring buying market don’t get what they want from ‘Irish Newspapers’ and have to fall into the arms of Jonny Foreigners!

    Another thing: If the main national titles didn’t exist – then neither would the journal.ie. I can’t remember when the journal ever ‘’broke a story’. If anyone can – please speak up.


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