Pay roll messing up time and time again

lifeandtimes · 21-02-2018 10:28PM #1

Hi,

I would just like opinions on this.

I've been with my employer for nearly 4 years however have tuped over from 2 previous employees totalling 10 years of service.

Since the new company took over I've had a litinary of issues with my monthly pay.

First is in 2015 they did not pay tax on my pay meaning that when I contacted revenue in 2016 for my p21 they advised they will have to take all the tax not paid over the course of 2 years by reducing my tax credits in 2017/18. I was quite annoyed but sometimes mistakes happen.

There have been delays of weeks for pay and incorrect amounts of under payment over the years

Last year I was quite ill and took extended time off to deal with this and recover etc, as per my contract I'm entitled to 6 months paid with the company paying some of my wages and social welfare paying the rest. My payslips eere never sent to me as they are sent to my work email

I returned to work in at the end of november and was due my wages in December however someone in payroll did not place me back on the books resulting in no payment being organised and an advance of 70% of my wage was paid to me the week of Christmas which was a nightmare.

In January I got 2 payslip 1 for that month and 1 for the advanced payment.

I did another p21 again and have been advised by revenue my employer wasn't paying tax for me again last year and they will have to collect it all next year by reducing my tax credits again in 2019.

I have reviewed my payslip for jan and feb and neither have tax on them again for this year.

There is only 1 point of contact for payroll in my countru as my employer is an outsource company and they main pay roll is on the other side of the world.

Does anyone know where I stand with this?

I know I have to pay tax I don't dispute this but time and time again they mess my pay up and it adversly effects me and my family

Pelvis · 21-02-2018 10:33PM

How did you not realise you weren't paying tax the first time? Let alone the second time?

Avatar MIA · 21-02-2018 10:38PM

Did the company deduct tax from you and not pay Revenue. That's the company's problem and Revenue should chase the company.

You getting paid gross and then looking for a P21 seems a comedy of errors.

lifeandtimes · 21-02-2018 10:44PM

In 2015 tax wasn't paid on my payslips, prsi and usc were there but no tax. I was naive and ignorant to what my payslip should look lile relating to tax and only ever really looked at the income. Thats not being disputed and I understood my tax credits being reduced to pay it.

The second time I wasn't receiving payslips and as 2016 tax was being paid I presumed everything had been fixed for 2017 but it hasn't and now Im down another year of tax credits because of the company and there's no tax on the 2 for this year so I've emailed pay roll but they're timezone is off ours so I'll be waiting a while for a reply.

This coupled with the fact they've mess up wages for me (and many others might I add) just makes me quite angry about it and just would lile opinions in what too do.

How many times is too many times to mess someone's pay up?

Avatar MIA · 21-02-2018 10:59PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

In 2015 tax wasn't paid on my payslips, prsi and usc were there but no tax. I was naive and ignorant to what my payslip should look lile relating to tax and only ever really looked at the income. Thats not being disputed and I understood my tax credits being reduced to pay it.

The second time I wasn't receiving payslips and as 2016 tax was being paid I presumed everything had been fixed for 2017 but it hasn't and now Im down another year of tax credits because of the company and there's no tax on the 2 for this year so I've emailed pay roll but they're timezone is off ours so I'll be waiting a while for a reply.

This coupled with the fact they've mess up wages for me (and many others might I add) just makes me quite angry about it and just would lile opinions in what too do.

How many times is too many times to mess someone's pay up?

You are right to be angry as they have performed very shabbily.

Ultimately you'll pay the same amount of tax, although it makes it very hard to plan/budget.

From a practical level all you can do is to sanity check your payslip each month.

lifeandtimes · 22-02-2018 03:12PM

Soan update for anyone who is following

I got a short blunt response from the payroll department, the jist is that they were under the impression that if i didnt earn a certain amount i dont have to pay tax

I know there is a cut off point for USC of 11k or there abouts but im 99.9999% certain that everyone has to pay at least 20% tax on their earnings. To give you some sort of reference including my pay from employer and the social welfare illness benifit i was paid just over 16k last year. When speaking to revenue they told me how much tax i should have paid last year and i agree with them

My manager sat down with me and said i should go back and basically explain it as if i was explaining it too a 3 year old so they understand( english is the first language of this country) as its serious and its happening again this year

Can anyone give some advice on how i should explain this or some links so i can reference it for them?

TitianGerm · 22-02-2018 03:17PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Soan update for anyone who is following

I got a short blunt response from the payroll department, the jist is that they were under the impression that if i didnt earn a certain amount i dont have to pay tax

I know there is a cut off point for USC of 11k or there abouts but im 99.9999% certain that everyone has to pay at least 20% tax on their earnings. To give you some sort of reference including my pay from employer and the social welfare illness benifit i was paid just over 16k last year. When speaking to revenue they told me how much tax i should have paid last year and i agree with them

My manager sat down with me and said i should go back and basically explain it as if i was explaining it too a 3 year old so they understand( english is the first language of this country) as its serious and its happening again this year

Can anyone give some advice on how i should explain this or some links so i can reference it for them?

If you earn €16500 a year and you have tax credits of €3300 you won't pay tax.

€16500x20% = €3300 - €3300 (tax credits) = Nil PAYE liability.

pilly · 22-02-2018 03:56PM

Are you sure you're an employee and not a contractor? I can't understand how an employer wouldn't deduct tax for 2 years? Doesn't make sense?

lifeandtimes · 22-02-2018 04:00PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

If you earn €16500 a year and you have tax credits of €3300 you won't pay tax.

€16500x20% = €3300 - €3300 (tax credits) = Nil PAYE liability.

ive got onto revenue again and they seem to agree with you as i was also in receipt of a child carer tax credit so in total my tax credits after the deducted under payment from 2015 were 4150 but this wasnt taken into account correctly on my p21

They think there may be an error in their systems as it didnt take into account my health expensese either, he asked me to forward in my p60 and theyll take a look at it

TitianGerm · 22-02-2018 04:01PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

ive got onto revenue again and they seem to agree with you as i was also in receipt of a child carer tax credit so in total my tax credits after the deducted under payment from 2015 were 4150 but this wasnt taken into account correctly on my p21

They think there may be an error in their systems as it didnt take into account my health expensese either, he asked me to forward in my p60 and theyll take a look at it

Good result so as you might not owe anything.

lifeandtimes · 22-02-2018 04:11PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

Good result so as you might not owe anything.

it seems that way

They orignally said i owed 750 that will be taken next year but that was based on tax credits of only 3300 and the fact i did owe 750 for 2017.

But taken into account my actual tax credits certificate which says my credits are 4950, which then takes away the under payment which leaves me with credit of 4200 for last year all things considered.

So in reality ive worked out theres technially an over payment of over 800 but i dont belive revenue refund customers tax credits but it will definitely mean i wont owe anything next year at least

Avatar MIA · 22-02-2018 05:02PM

So... the payroll department were correct ?

lifeandtimes wrote: »

it seems that way

So in reality ive worked out theres technially an over payment of over 800 but i dont belive revenue refund customers tax credits but it will definitely mean i wont owe anything next year at least

You'll only get refunded up to the level of Income tax you've paid. If you've paid tax and unapplied tax credits are available you'll still get a refund. You can go back up to 4 years.

lifeandtimes · 22-02-2018 05:11PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

So... the payroll department were correct ?

You'll only get refunded up to the level of Income tax you've paid. If you've paid tax and unapplied tax credits are available you'll still get a refund. You can go back up to 4 years.

Iv had a look through my payslips for last year and tax was paid but then deducted over the 6 months i was enititled to be paid by the company, it quite confusing but ultmately no tax was paid last year as my credits covered what was due. the guy in revenue said my payslips wouldnt show tax as 0 if my credits covered them which they did. so in that sense im not expecting a refund of 800 beause thats pretty much just the tax credit, im just happy i dont owe anything

And yes the pay roll would be right but i still need to figure out why they took tax then refunded it on and off over 6 months

Avatar MIA · 22-02-2018 05:17PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

And yes the pay roll would be right but i still need to figure out why they took tax then refunded it on and off over 6 months

Not sure, but bear in mind Taxation is cumulative in that it's assumed at the start of the year you only get the benefit of one month's tax credits etc. then more in the second month. Maybe you were due to pay tax, but because of the illness benefit you dropped down to not being taxable. In that case you'd get the refund on your return to work.

lifeandtimes · 07-03-2018 02:13PM

so an update from revenue, im still so confused

Your PAYE Income plus Illness Benefit amounts to 16,581.96. 16,581.96 @ 20% = 3316.39 tax due. Credits are reduced to tax due of 3316.39. Credits are non refundable and our system will automatically restrict your tax credits to the amount of tax that you are due to pay to cover your liability. You have no need for the surplus credits therefore they are disregarded. This is why Health Expenses have not showed up on your P21 Balancing Statement and is also why your Single Person Child Carer Credit has been reduced to 16.39. You are not due a further refund as you have not paid any tax in 2017. You also cannot use surplus credits to cover an underpayment from a previous year, therefore the 762.49 - reduced to 724.85 by your 37.64 USC refund, is still due. Only refunds of tax already paid can be offset against an outstanding underpayment. Yours sincerely.

So from what i get is, tax due was 3316.39, as i have credits they covered that. but as there was a refund due from the previous year that couldnt be taken away from the addtional tax credits i had for single parents, so i was due to pay that in tax for last year of that amount, however as my employer did not deduct tax from pay when i was receiving it from them while out sick i now still owe that amount, so in hindsight my employer has messed up by not paying tax on my payslip, again as i still do not have tax on my payslip from feb

Avatar MIA · 07-03-2018 02:44PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

So from what i get is, tax due was 3316.39, as i have credits they covered that. but as there was a refund due from the previous year that couldnt be taken away from the addtional tax credits i had for single parents, so i was due to pay that in tax for last year of that amount,

Yes, the above is correct. If by refund you mean repayment to Revenue.

lifeandtimes wrote: »

however as my employer did not deduct tax from pay when i was receiving it from them while out sick i now still owe that amount, so in hindsight my employer has messed up by not paying tax on my payslip, again as i still do not have tax on my payslip from feb

Not clear. Was your employer paying you while you were out sick? If he wasn't paying you it was not possible to make a deduction. If when you returned to work and were being paid in the year you received your sick benefit your employer should have taken that into account and deducted tax.

However, either way you wont be paying any more tax than you would have. The difference is that you didn't pay it last year, but you will be paying it off over the period the revenue have reduced your tax credits.

Incidentally, how did revenue find out - usually it's when an employee asks for a P21.

lifeandtimes · 07-03-2018 03:01PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Yes, the above is correct. If by refund you mean repayment to Revenue.

Not clear. Was your employer paying you while you were out sick? If he wasn't paying you it was not possible to make a deduction. If when you returned to work and were being paid in the year you received your sick benefit your employer should have taken that into account and deducted tax.

However, either way you wont be paying any more tax than you would have. The difference is that you didn't pay it last year, but you will be paying it off over the period the revenue have reduced your tax credits.

Incidentally, how did revenue find out - usually it's when an employee asks for a P21.

I am due my full months wages while out sick for an extended time ,however my employer pay some and social welfare suppliment the rest. I fill out a p21 there and used the information from my p60 and this is where this has arose from.

A snippit of my reply to revenue

"At the end of 2016 i received a tax credit ceritificate saying my tax credits were being reduced in line with the underpayment i owed, this is fine, this showed personal,employee and single persons. Last year my tax due was 3316.39, my credit were reduced to this to cover last years tax amount due which is why not tax was paid on my payslips?
However you Are you now saying my surplus tax credits cannot cover an underpayment? Then why was my tax credit certificate shown have reduced my tax credits to cover the payment?
If my tax credits of personal and employee can be used to cover 2017 of my tax obligation, then it would have been known that the single parent or surplus as you say wouldnt have taken into account for the underpayment.
In summery i didnt earn enough last year to pay tax as 2 of my tax credits covered the tax owed but becuase i owed an underpayment from the previous year and becuase no tax was paid last year this has been carried forward to next year, even though my credit certificated took into account the tax reduction. Why was i advised incorrectly on my tax certificate and elgible for tax benifits that i couldnt use? especially when it states any underpayment is taken away from tax credits i am eligible for?

Seems quite strange that my tax credits will cover me for the year but wont cover me for the underpayment and as such isnt taken away from the tax credit for the year so i can just pay what is owed, so annoying

Avatar MIA · 07-03-2018 03:07PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I am due my full months wages while out sick for an extended time ,however my employer pay some and social welfare suppliment the rest. I fill out a p21 there and used the information from my p60 and this is where this has arose from.

A snippit of my reply to revenue

"At the end of 2016 i received a tax credit ceritificate saying my tax credits were being reduced in line with the underpayment i owed, this is fine, this showed personal,employee and single persons. Last year my tax due was 3316.39, my credit were reduced to this to cover last years tax amount due which is why not tax was paid on my payslips?
However you Are you now saying my surplus tax credits cannot cover an underpayment? Then why was my tax credit certificate shown have reduced my tax credits to cover the payment?
If my tax credits of personal and employee can be used to cover 2017 of my tax obligation, then it would have been known that the single parent or surplus as you say wouldnt have taken into account for the underpayment.
In summery i didnt earn enough last year to pay tax as 2 of my tax credits covered the tax owed but becuase i owed an underpayment from the previous year and becuase no tax was paid last year this has been carried forward to next year, even though my credit certificated took into account the tax reduction. Why was i advised incorrectly on my tax certificate and elgible for tax benifits that i couldnt use? especially when it states any underpayment is taken away from tax credits i am eligible for?

Seems quite strange that my tax credits will cover me for the year but wont cover me for the underpayment and as such isnt taken away from the tax credit for the year so i can just pay what is owed, so annoying

Hi, not fully understanding the point you're trying to make with Revenue.

You requested a P21 (never do this unless you're sure you don't owe revenue money) and were found to owe tax from a previous year. Revenue can do you a favour and reduce your tax credits over a number of years or demand payment in full straight away. You still have this choice if you wish.

My advice is let revenue help you, by reducing your tax credits for a period of time. You'll need to pay back the amount due - you have some input as to how this happens.

lifeandtimes · 07-03-2018 03:13PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

My advice is let revenue help you, by reducing your tax credits for a period of time. You'll need to pay back the amount due - you have some input as to how this happens.

No thats the point, i was expecting and wanted my tax credits for this year and last year to be reduced to clear the payment owed to them, but instead what it looks like now is becuase i didnt earn enough last year to pay tax the underpayment for last year has carried for to next year, i would have prefered if they just reduced my actual tax credits that covered me for the years tax due (personal/employee) and charged me tax for last year instead of reducing my 3 tax credits i was enititled too (personal,employee and single parent) and then saying well we cant actually take underpayment from any surplus credits :mad:

Avatar MIA · 07-03-2018 03:25PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

No thats the point, i was expecting and wanted my tax credits for this year and last year to be reduced to clear the payment owed to them, but instead what it looks like now is becuase i didnt earn enough last year to pay tax the underpayment for last year has carried for to next year, i would have prefered if they just reduced my actual tax credits that covered me for the years tax due (personal/employee) and charged me tax for last year instead of reducing my 3 tax credits i was enititled too (personal,employee and single parent) and then saying well we cant actually take underpayment from any surplus credits :mad:

Revenue would be delighted to do that, but that's not what you seem to ask for from your correspondence snippet. Ring Revenue now and they'll gladly amend as requested to get the payment in sooner or you can make a once off payment.

lifeandtimes · 07-03-2018 03:27PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Revenue would be delighted to do that, but that's not what you seem to ask for from your correspondence snippet. Ring Revenue now and they'll gladly amend as requested to get the payment in sooner or you can make a once off payment.

I think ill just have to make a once of payment some how, i prefered the reduction in credits over the 12 months for last year and this year, cant do another year being under their thumb.

Also wont be filling out any p21 anymore, too much aniexty waiting to know if you owe them or not

Thanks for you help though

Pay roll messing up time and time again

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