Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

david75 · 30-01-2018 12:22AM

end of the road wrote: »

abortions in cases of FFA could be allowed via an extension of the existing law. having people travel to procure abortions shows them that there are consiquences to the act of killing the unborn outside extreme circumstances, which will hopefully deter some from carying out the act.

You’re halfway to having an actual understanding of the referendum and what it is about.

Progress. At last.

end of the road · 30-01-2018 12:28AM

david75 wrote: »

You’re halfway to having an actual understanding of the referendum and what it is about.

Progress. At last.

i fully understand what the referendum is about, however the high likely hood of abortion outside extreme circumstances being legislated for is a major part of the referendum as repealing the 8th allows for such legislation and such barbarity to be able to take place in ireland, at the tax payer's expence.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw · 30-01-2018 06:43AM

You should not have voted in favour of sodomy, the crime that cries to the high heavens for Vengence from the Lord.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw · 30-01-2018 07:02AM

I told you, despite what you want to believe, that a woman's body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Have you got that?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw · 30-01-2018 07:04AM

david75 wrote:

To be honest I can see this kind of faith based preaching and threatening instigating people to vote in favour of the referendum. Itâ€™s counter productive.

It's the exact opposite.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw · 30-01-2018 07:15AM

For those who voted for sodomy, get on your knees and beg God's forgiveness.

Cabaal · 30-01-2018 08:38AM

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

For those who voted for sodomy, get on your knees and beg God's forgiveness.

sodomy
ˈsɒdəmi/
noun
noun: sodomy
anal intercourse.

So Lesbian's having sex is all ok with god?

Tell me, what is it with many Christian's people obsession with sodomy and it being bad but being fine with Lesbian's having sex?

Delirium · 30-01-2018 09:14AM

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

For those who voted for sodomy, get on your knees and beg God's forgiveness.

MOD NOTE

I've no idea what this has to do with voting to allow abortion.

It would be appreciated if you could keep on-topic.

Thanks for your attention.

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smacl · 30-01-2018 10:45AM

end of the road wrote: »

ireland is a civilised country by not allowing unrestricted and on demand abortion. countries that allow abortion on demand and unrestricted are less civilised as they allow the killing of the unborn without good reason.

So by your definition, civilised includes Africa, the Middle East, South America, and part of South East Asia, while uncivilised includes most of Europe, North America, Canada, and the rest of Asia. I think you may have got that the wrong way around. More simply, anti-abortion sentiment seems to correlate geographically with theocracy and strong religious influence.

smacl · 30-01-2018 11:00AM

ABC101 wrote: »

Smacl, thanks for your reply etc.

Would you be in favour of unlimited abortion, up to 9 months? If not what type of abortion would you not be prepared to endorse?

I'd tend to agree with the sentiment, 'as early as possible, as late as necessary'. One you pass a certain stage, extremely rare that it is, we're more likely talking about a termination resulting in a baby delivered by cesarean rather than an abortion. In every case I would always put the woman's life first.

I think unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks is reasonable and in line with what is available on other civilised countries around the world. At the same time, I think as a country we should be working hard to reduce the amount of abortion to the minimum through proper sex education and free availability of contraception (including emergency contraception) through the health service. Abortion is never a preferred option, least of all for a pregnant woman, it is a least worst option that should really only be necessary in exceptional circumstances in this day and age.

antiskeptic · 30-01-2018 11:12AM

Cabaal wrote: »

Tell me, what is it with many Christian's people obsession with sodomy and it being bad but being fine with Lesbian's having sex?

Oi, steady on the broad brushstroke. Deal with Owen's view as if they were Owen's views.

antiskeptic · 30-01-2018 11:13AM

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And unrestricted abortion beyond 12 weeks soon enough after that.

Cabaal · 30-01-2018 11:17AM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Oi, steady on the broad brushstroke. Deal with Owen's view as if they were Owen's views.

What broad brushstroke?

I said many christian, not all, not even a majority. It is something that many Christian's do certainly have an obsession about. They go on about how bad sodomy is but they never for a second mention lesbians, this does suggest a little bit of an obsession.

I'm well aware not all Christian's are obsessed or even care about such things, but many do as you see it time and time again mentioned when it comes to gay rights by religious people.

Timberrrrrrrr · 30-01-2018 11:19AM

Cabaal wrote: »

What broad brushstroke?

I said many christian, not all, not even a majority. It is something that many Christian's do certainly have an obsession about. They go on about how bad sodomy is but they never for a second mention lesbians, this does suggest a little bit of an obsession.

I'm well aware not all Christian's are obsessed or even care about such things, but many do as you see it time and time again mentioned when it comes to gay rights by religious people.

Funny thing is its not just gays that will partake in anal sex, married couples also do this, what does Owen (or any other Christian who thinks sodomy is wrong) think about this?

Delirium · 30-01-2018 11:22AM

MOD NOTE

Just to be clear, the previous warning to Owen to cease with the off-topic posts regarding sodomy was not an invitation for other posters to pick up that tangent.

Back on topic please.

Thanks for your attention.

Effects · 30-01-2018 11:31AM

end of the road wrote: »

Having people travel to procure abortions shows them that there are consiquences to the act of killing the unborn outside extreme circumstances, which will hopefully deter some from carying out the act.

So it's fine for wealthy people to be able to have abortions, but not the poor?

SusieBlue · 30-01-2018 11:34AM

Effects wrote: »

So it's fine for wealthy people to be able to have abortions, but not the poor?

In his opinion, its better if they have to travel, because it makes them "really think about it".
Because, you know, if it was legal here, women would just mindlessly walk into abortion clinics in a zombie state without a passing thought for what they were about to do.

....... · 30-01-2018 11:42AM

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....... · 30-01-2018 11:43AM

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antiskeptic · 30-01-2018 12:23PM

Cabaal wrote: »

What broad brushstroke?

I said many christian, not all, not even a majority. It is something that many Christian's do certainly have an obsession about. They go on about how bad sodomy is but they never for a second mention lesbians, this does suggest a little bit of an obsession.

I'm well aware not all Christian's are obsessed or even care about such things, but many do as you see it time and time again mentioned when it comes to gay rights by religious people.

Sorry, I misread. Objection withdrawn.

antiskeptic · 30-01-2018 12:24PM

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More wry comment. I don't suppose the stepwise liberalization of society is going to happy until, well, society is liberalized..

end of the road · 30-01-2018 03:53PM

Effects wrote: »

So it's fine for wealthy people to be able to have abortions, but not the poor?

it's not fine, but we cannot realistically and viably stop people from traveling.

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because a number of those in favour of abortion will never leave it at 12 weeks. they will scream and scream until it's increased and the government will end up bending over.

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i actually haven't made such a statement, you are the one saying i made such a statement as part of the lies you make up about me and other pro-life posters.

....... · 30-01-2018 03:59PM

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Delirium · 30-01-2018 04:03PM

end of the road wrote: »

because a number of those in favour of abortion will never leave it at 12 weeks. they will scream and scream until it's increased and the government will end up bending over.

If you're concerned about abortions being carried out later into pregnancies, then opposing the removal of the 8th makes little sense.

Women are having abortions later because travelling to another country means the abortion doesn't happen as early into the pregnancy if they didn't have to go abroad.

....... · 30-01-2018 04:04PM

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Cabaal · 30-01-2018 04:19PM

end of the road wrote: »

because a number of those in favour of abortion will never leave it at 12 weeks. they will scream and scream until it's increased and the government will end up bending over.

Baseless fearmongering,
The Government would have to legislate to extend it past 12 weeks, if the majority of the country was against such changes the TD's and Government overall would feel the wraith and suffer and the next government would just change it again.

Your claim is like the baseless fear mongering that went on before the marriage ref
:rolleyes:

end of the road · 30-01-2018 05:17PM

Delirium wrote: »

If you're concerned about abortions being carried out later into pregnancies, then opposing the removal of the 8th makes little sense.

Women are having abortions later because travelling to another country means the abortion doesn't happen as early into the pregnancy if they didn't have to go abroad.

i'm aware the current system is causing later abortions. however it is outweighed for me by the 8th quite likely saving many unborn lives by insuring a deterrent for some to procure abortion outside medical reasons, by having them travel to the uk and funding it themselves. so i still won't oppose the 8th because i believe it does save some lives and i believe some form of deterrent toards the procurement of abortions outside medical reasons is a good thing.

Delirium · 30-01-2018 05:25PM

end of the road wrote: »

i'm aware the current system is causing later abortions. however it is outweighed for me by the 8th quite likely saving many unborn lives by insuring a deterrent for some to procure abortion outside medical reasons, by having them travel to the uk and funding it themselves. so i still won't oppose the 8th because i believe it does save some lives and i believe some form of deterrent toards the procurement of abortions outside medical reasons is a good thing.

And what about the women who can't travel and are denied abortions that force them continue through the pregnancy until they miscarry or deliver a child that dies shortly after?

end of the road · 30-01-2018 06:02PM

Delirium wrote: »

And what about the women who can't travel and are denied abortions that force them continue through the pregnancy until they miscarry or deliver a child that dies shortly after?

to be fair, i did state in my post "outside medical reasons" meaning i would be okay with abortion for medical reasons such as a threat to the mother's life, cases of FFA, where the baby cannot be caried viably or live to term, or cases where the mother is under threat of permanent injury or disability.
my post was in relation to non-medical abortions which are in my view contraceptive and birth-control abortions, for which i believe that it is not the duty of the irish state to provide.

Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

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