Are review sites like RT ruining movies ?

Wedwood · 26-01-2018 06:07PM #1

Before the age of the internet, movie critics reviewed movies, usually in newspapers which you may or may not read and that was about it. You went to the movie and you made your own mind up whether or not you liked the movie without any other influence on you.

Nowadays, every movie gets a 'score' or 'rating, like those on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, which predispose the audience to liking or disliking a movie before they see it.

The Last Jedi is maybe the prime example of the inadequacy of these online review sites, where it appears a momentum was generated against the movie, despite almost universally good critical reviews.

With a few notable exceptions, there's really no such thing as a good movie or a bad one, just movies you personally like or dislike.

However, these online sites don't just let people give their opinions, they exert peer pressure to either dislike or like particular movies.

In the case of The last Jedi, its easier to say you dislike the movie, whereas if you say you like it, you're somehow pegged as offside with the accepted view and fair game by those who disliked the movie. I'd even go as far as saying it sometimes borders on bullying.

If I would like to launch a campaign, it would be to scrap/boycott those online review sites, the Mr Plinkett type videos and those '10 things wrong with' articles, so modern kids (and adults for that matter) don't have all this noise going on around them and let them just go and see the movie without having being told how they should react to it.

judeboy101 · 26-01-2018 06:10PM

Anyone who doesn't like LoA shouldn't be allowed the pleasure of watching movies in the first place.

TheIrishGrover · 26-01-2018 06:21PM

I like reviews of films..... by decent, professional reviewers. I would never pay any attention to "reviews" on sites like Rotten Tomatoes. Agrigating their scores based on flavour-of-the-month inane and semi-articulate "influencers"? No thanks.

However I don't think movies are being ruined by sites like these: People have been predicting the dumbing-down of movies for decades. Sure, currently the summer blockbuster trend is currently for Superheroes but there are also smaller films that are getting a larger audience these days. Look at the buzz Three Billboards is getting. A few years ago that would be lucky to make it into our major screens at all.

Arghus · 26-01-2018 07:04PM

No. Bad movies have only themselves to blame.

26-01-2018 07:18PM

Wedwood wrote: »

The Last Jedi is maybe the prime example of the inadequacy of these online review sites, where it appears a momentum was generated against the movie, despite almost universally good critical reviews.

I don't see your point - the movie got good reviews and it is reflected in a high score on Rotten Tomatoes.

Any percieved negative momentum would have existed in spite of good reviews whether they were online or in the Galway Advertiser.

Sad Professor · 26-01-2018 07:56PM

Online backlashes and pushbacks are often a reaction to positive/negative reviews in the mainstream (from critics and audiences). See Star Trek into Darkness and Batman v Superman. I don't even think it's about the movie most of the time. It's just about online sub-cultures (hardcore Trekkies, 4chan, etc) battling to control the narrative. In the past they wouldn't have had a chance but these days they can infiltrate the mainstream quite easily. Social media has become a trojan horse for a lot of this stuff.

buried · 26-01-2018 08:39PM

There still are good films being made but the greasy greedy money angle is ruining mainstream movies. No one willing to risk investing or backing anything original or forward pushing from the big studios. "What made money last year? What looks like the best selling video-game? What does the audience want?" Rinse - Repeat - Rubbish. Film making is an art. Art isn't supposed to be about what the audience 'wants', it's supposed to be what the audience 'needs'.

Greyfox · 26-01-2018 09:00PM

Wedwood wrote: »

With a few notable exceptions, there's really no such thing as a good movie or a bad one, just movies you personally like or dislike.

Absolute nonsense, the majority of the IMDB top 250 can be viewed as generally v good or excellent films that are worth a try while films getting 6/10 you can generally accept are rubbish. I don't have time to watch every film so I like having a convenient way of separating the quality and the rubbish so I always check IMDB and metacritic before watching a film.

27-01-2018 05:18PM

Greyfox wrote: »

Absolute nonsense, the majority of the IMDB top 250 can be viewed as generally v good or excellent films that are worth a try while films getting 6/10 you can generally accept are rubbish. I don't have time to watch every film so I like having a convenient way of separating the quality and the rubbish so I always check IMDB and metacritic before watching a film.

There are 100's of outstanding films rated in the 6's on imdb especially ones from the 80's and early 90's. Just take Sydney Lumet alone who is a masterful director Q&A gets a 6.5, Family Business and Power are in the 5's. The Anderson Tapes 6.4.

For Imdb im more skeptical of the very high scores on modern films then seeing a film in the 6's or even mid 5's.

Slydice · 27-01-2018 05:26PM

Recently I've seen Rotten Tomatoe scores from Reviewers not stack up with fan scores on some superhero and scifi films/tv.

I saw an argument that said fans who like the film/series will be more likely to go on and watch it... and you know.. give it a good score.

So.. slowly getting to the place where it feels like some Reviewers are very non-Specific to a type of show and reviewing it from a wider audience point of view.

Now that's not a bad thing. You don't want people wasting their time with stuff they are not bothered about and will be disappointed by.

BUT.. it's missing the ability to tell specific fans stuff like: hey, you know what... you'll probably like this.

It's probably not just superhero and scifi... there's probably horror, romance, drama, feels etc type films suffering the same.

Maybe the sites could improve by including a break down of the reviews something like:
General: 23%
SciFi: 85%
Romance: 69%

Drama: 10%
Feels: 55%

Greyfox · 27-01-2018 07:00PM

Slydice wrote: »

BUT.. it's missing the ability to tell specific fans stuff like: hey, you know what... you'll probably like this.

The system is a very good at a glance guideline, and if someone wants more accuracy then can just read the user or critic reviews. Also the majority of 1/10 scores are given by gob*****s

david75 · 27-01-2018 09:19PM

These sites only really came to wider notice when fan backlash against BvS and other DC releases and later, TLJ saw die hard fans who were butt hurt actively and in numbers coordinated giving them bad reviews.

Does anyone really use a site like RT to tell them how to think before theyve even seen a film? When the method is so easily manipulated and messed with and even before that started happening , when the critics score and the audience scores were always so vastly different, who do you believe?

Best off sticking to critics that you trust and have an established record, if you’re going to trust anything.

Aggregate sites are utterly flawed and suit the nonosecond long attention span of the sheeple that need to be told what to think and are incapable of thinking for themselves.

brianregan09 · 28-01-2018 12:50AM

No only if you let it, Go in and watch something and make your own mind up don't be a sheep its pretty simple

ixoy · 28-01-2018 01:33AM

However, if you've got limited time and finances it can help - it's difficult to see all the films so you need to be selective. It can be a useful indicator if you it's worth seeing a movie you're ambivalent about. You get links to the reviews normally too so you can interpret yourself too by reading a sample from a cross section of sources as sometimes it's difficult to understand RT's understanding of "rotten".

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-01-2018 09:16AM

I think IMDb is the biggest culprit.
Just read the fan reviews of TLJ and it is baffling to see pages upon pages of 1 star reviews with the hatred literally jumping off the screen at you.
In my own very humble opinion, all 1 star reviews should he scrutinized and if they contain phrases like "suck" and "worst piece of sh*t ever", they should be canned.
It is definitely true that a lot of Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

geraardo · 28-01-2018 10:18AM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think IMDb is the biggest culprit.
Just read the fan reviews of TLJ and it is baffling to see pages upon pages of 1 star reviews with the hatred literally jumping off the screen at you.
In my own very humble opinion, all 1 star reviews should he scrutinized and if they contain phrases like "suck" and "worst piece of sh*t ever", they should be canned.
It is definitely true that a lot of Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

IMDB used to be much worse than it is now, thank god they got rid of their message boards that place was toxic, the amount of hate not just towards films but too each other was beyond belief.

I personally don't look at reviews anymore, people should make their own minds up about what they choose to see imo, not let someone else with an opinion decide for them.

If i like the director or an actor of a film or if its a genre i like that is due out i will watch it.

RocketRaccoon · 28-01-2018 10:25AM

Why can't people just take a movie and watch it and form their own opinion? I am fed up of people refusing to watch a movie and then slating it because of the words of some nobody on a movie review website.

geraardo · 28-01-2018 10:45AM

Looks like the IMDB message boards aren't dead after all , this from a thread on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/5v1hsb/the_imdb_message_boards_are_officially_dead_are/

Seems a site called http://www.moviechat.org/ saved them.

tigger123 · 28-01-2018 11:31AM

Think I read somewhere that there was a campaign by certain neckbeard morons to purposefully downvote Citizen Kane, Shawshank etc in order to raise The Dark Knight in the top ten.

In theory, the ratings on RT and IMDB would be great if they were honestly used, but they're too open to being dishonestly used.

Everyone has an opinion on everything these days.

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-01-2018 11:51AM

It is the same reason that democracy doesn't work, the majority of people are morons.
Give them any power on decisions and watch them fcuk it up.
Not that anything changes in the real world, it's just another example for me that humans are dumb. Donald Trump is proof of that.

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-01-2018 11:58AM

geraardo wrote: »

Looks like the IMDB message boards aren't dead after all , this from a thread on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/5v1hsb/the_imdb_message_boards_are_officially_dead_are/

Seems a site called http://www.moviechat.org/ saved them.

Oh God, I looked at moviechat.
Yes, it's all there, the hatred, the trolling, the utter moronic stupidity, it is the dregs of the internet.
I need to take a shower now...

S.M.B. · 28-01-2018 01:17PM

I'm forever surprised that people don't even understand exactly what a rotten tomatoes score actually is.

I think it's great and find it a great tool along with letterboxd.

I pay no attention to imdb scores.

briany · 28-01-2018 01:18PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think IMDb is the biggest culprit.
Just read the fan reviews of TLJ and it is baffling to see pages upon pages of 1 star reviews with the hatred literally jumping off the screen at you.
In my own very humble opinion, all 1 star reviews should he scrutinized and if they contain phrases like "suck" and "worst piece of sh*t ever", they should be canned.
It is definitely true that a lot of Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

If you're talking about the entire history of TV and Film, I find IMDB to be excellent as a general indicator of quality. It's only on the newer releases where you get a lot of hyperbole, hysteria and apparent politicisation of the score. I think any reasonably intelligent person can filter out that noise, though.

I still find online review sites to be leagues better than one guy's opinion in your local paper, or what the trailer/back of the sleeve says.

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-01-2018 05:38PM

Good point briany, but just as you said, the newer releases are plagued by a lot of noise and the problem is that the signal to noise ratio is worsening the entire time.
Soon enough all new movies that are even the least bit popular will only be reviewed by 13 or 43 year old virgins and there will be nothing left but trolls and morons. So any normal or rational discussion or review of the new Star Wars or Marvel film will become completely impossible.
I could imagine that in the future the internet will be like radio, newspapers and TV in the 80's and 90's where content was strictly controlled and only qualified, properly educated people were allowed to contribute. There will be maybe one or the other small comments section, but it would have to be pre-approved content.
I believe that the freedom of the internet has brought out the worst in people, it's just inherent. People, under that nice exterior, are mean, horrible, hateful and vile.

donegal_man · 28-01-2018 05:52PM

IMDB for me is a research tool if I want to find out some details about a movie I vaguely remember from my long lost youth. RT on the other hand has a handful of both professional critics and genre fans who i find provide a reliable enough guide to what I'm likely to enjoy.

Wailin · 28-01-2018 05:52PM

Don't see what the problem is with the likes of IMDB to be honest. I always check out a films rating before wasting a wad of cash going to the cinema to watch some drivel like Justice League.

Pero_Bueno · 28-01-2018 11:08PM

Its a good point, I would also say fan forums and sites that discuss films like Star Wars or Star Trek - basically anything with a lot of backstory and lore - are negatively effecting new films in the related franchise.

These guys have thought of all the good theories, so the scriptwriters know this and of course can't use any - so all the good ideas are gone and they have to settle on something inferior just as it wasn't already discussed.

Smoke monster in Lost is a good example, some fantastic theories as to what that was - even some on here ! - what it ended up being though .... christ , I can't watch that show anymore.

pinkypinky · 29-01-2018 12:12PM

I don't pay any attention to IMDB scores and literally never look at Rotten Tomatoes. I do listen to Kermode & Mayo's podcast but I'm usually a couple of weeks behind.

I see a trailer or hear about a new film and decide for myself whether I'll see it. I'd hold off listening to Kermode's review until I saw a film most of the time.

murpho999 · 29-01-2018 12:29PM

I only use IMDB for cast info, filmographies etc to settle arguments and never look at their movie ratings.

Rotten Tomatoes though I find more accurate, if it's got low critic score there then I find that it's generally a bad film.

I have tested this against films I have seen in the past before the internet and find the reviews fairly close to how I feel about the film.

Too many people think though that RT is a score than an actual percentage of good reviews.

mewso · 29-01-2018 04:56PM

Wedwood wrote: »

In the case of The last Jedi, its easier to say you dislike the movie, whereas if you say you like it, you're somehow pegged as offside with the accepted view and fair game by those who disliked the movie. I'd even go as far as saying it sometimes borders on bullying.

If I would like to launch a campaign, it would be to scrap/boycott those online review sites, the Mr Plinkett type videos and those '10 things wrong with' articles, so modern kids (and adults for that matter) don't have all this noise going on around them and let them just go and see the movie without having being told how they should react to it.

Interesting I seem to remember Star Trek fans being made fun of for having issues with Star Trek 2009 and I was very much under the impression that liking TLJ was the "accepted view". It works both ways is my point. What bearing any of that has on your thread I have no idea since opinions come after viewing.

Also does anyone watch 'Mr. Plinkett' type videos before watching movies? They are in depth analysis intended for viewing after not before watching. Hell Red Letter Media reviews in general are all spoiler reviews so not intended for viewing beforehand at all. Surely the same applies to "10 things wrong with", "Cinema Sins" and so on. They can't possibly work unless you have seen it. Not sure what the point is here at all.

Theboinkmaster · 29-01-2018 07:09PM

I find IMDB rating in general a good indicator, for example:

Original star wars trilogy:

Empire strikes back 8.8
A new hope 8.7
Return of the Jedi 8.3

Seems right to me, that's the order I'd put them in.

New films:

Force Awakens 8.0
Rogue one 7.8
Last Jedi 7.5

Seems OK to me, force awakens is a great film and probably graded higher than rogue one by new fans who don't realise it's a new hope re-boot. Personally I'd have Rogue One higher than it. But none are rated as high as original trilogy which I agree with.

Last jedi at 7.5 yup I'd agree with, even less to be honest, thought the film was complete muck.

Are review sites like RT ruining movies ?

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