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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

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12467…330

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    #92
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,142 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Khan has been a good Mayor. If I was a person living in London, I would be proud of him, representing me. A long way from Boris, the oaf.


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    #93
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Water John wrote: »
    Khan has been a good Mayor. If I was a person living in London, I would be proud of him, representing me. A long way from Boris, the oaf.

    Unfortunately the far-right see him as a Muslim (and associate that with a number of things) first and a Mayor second so no matter what he does he will never be able to win with them and the likes of Breitbart are just egging that on.


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    #94
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,369 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Water John wrote: »
    Khan has been a good Mayor. If I was a person living in London, I would be proud of him, representing me. A long way from Boris, the oaf.

    Completely agreed. Boris has frittered away huge amounts of taxpayer money on vanity projects like the Garden Bridge which alone has set the taxpayer down nearly £50 million. If the far right hates Khan then so much the better as it means that the people of London don't care what they think.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #95
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Really Interested wrote: »
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/550382/

    Norwegian immigrants did so poorly in the United States that about 70 percent of them returned & stayed in Norway,” Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration-policy analyst with the Cato Institute, wrote Thursday on Twitter. “Return rates are not always a sign of failure but their low wages, despite observable characteristics, and poor 2nd generation assimilation indicate otherwise here.”

    Just look at GDP per person in USA and Norway to see why you are in your claim incorrect.

    Edit: Quoted incorrect post in reply, for some reason I can't delete this post.


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    #96
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Really Interested wrote: »
    Ok post the DV lottery that says Norway goes to US in same numbers as rest of Europe.

    “That same year, 753,060 green-card holders became citizens. The number of Norwegians: 93. The number of Norwegians immigrants to the U.S. has steadily declined over the past five decades, according to data from the Migration Policy Institute, which studies global migration trends. In fact, there are fewer Norwegians living in the U.S. than any other major European country.”

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/550382/

    If you don’t back up your claim I’m just going to think you are a liar.

    From the link below shows the number of DV applications from 2013 to 2015

    Norway averages about 4000
    That is about 0.076% of the total polulation
    Other western European nations show somewhat similar figures
    Denmark 5,000 (0.087%)
    Holland 10,00 (0.05%)
    Finland 5,900 (0.10%)
    Sweden 12,000 (0.13%)
    Switzerland 12,000 (0.14%)
    Germany 90,000 (0.1%)
    Belgium 8,000 (0.072%)
    France 50,000 (0.072%)

    My point was that America continues to be appealing as a destination for immigration from other western developed nations.
    And the DV application figures show that is as appealing to Norwegians as it is to French, Belgians, Dutch, etc.

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Diversity-Visa/DVStatistics/DVApplicantEntrantsbyCountry%202013-2015.pdf


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    #97
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    From the link below shows the number of DV applications from 2013 to 2015

    Norway averages about 4000
    That is about 0.076% of the total polulation
    Other western European nations show somewhat similar figures
    Denmark 5,000 (0.087%)
    Holland 10,00 (0.05%)
    Finland 5,900 (0.10%)
    Sweden 12,000 (0.13%)
    Switzerland 12,000 (0.14%)
    Germany 90,000 (0.1%)
    Belgium 8,000 (0.072%)
    France 50,000 (0.072%)

    My point was that America continues to be appealing as a destination for immigration from other western developed nations.
    And the DV application figures show that is as appealing to Norwegians as it is to French, Belgians, Dutch, etc.

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Diversity-Visa/DVStatistics/DVApplicantEntrantsbyCountry%202013-2015.pdf

    So you look at one scheme a scheme that says “Section 203(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provides for a class of immigrants known as “diversity immigrants,” from countries with historically low rates of immigration to the United States. A limited number of visas are available each fiscal year. The DVs are distributed among six geographic regions and no single country may receive more than seven percent of the available DVs in any one year.”

    What you need to look at is total migration including all legal avenues into the USA for many reasons Norway does not find the ****hole that is the USA very attractive. Norway has a wealth fund in the hundreds of billions for its 5 million population according to trump America is bankrupt.


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    #98
    phater phagan
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭phater phagan


    A few months ago I met an American couple, in a local pub, who were visiting here. They were in their late 50's and were very pleased with the reception that they were getting in the various places.

    During the course of our conversation they mentioned that they had voted for Trump. I was curious why they had and asked them that. The woman said that the reason was immigration, social welfare programs and the loss of "American values".

    When her male friend went to the toilet she said they came to Ireland because he was angry about a family matter back in Missouri. I was curious and expressed that I hoped that the visit here would give them some relief from their problem.

    When her male friend returned she then left to go to the ladies, and he also mentioned the family matter problem. I asked him what the problem might be, and he said that the woman's son was in jail for selling drugs. I thought that it might be marijuana - but he informed me the son was in for the sale of heroin. As they say in the States "go figure?"


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    #99
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Really Interested wrote: »
    So you look at one scheme a scheme that says “Section 203(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provides for a class of immigrants known as “diversity immigrants,” from countries with historically low rates of immigration to the United States. A limited number of visas are available each fiscal year. The DVs are distributed among six geographic regions and no single country may receive more than seven percent of the available DVs in any one year.”

    What you need to look at is total migration including all legal avenues into the USA for many reasons Norway does not find the ****hole that is the USA very attractive. Norway has a wealth fund in the hundreds of billions for its 5 million population according to trump America is bankrupt.


    Why don't you source that info to prove your point since you brough it up?

    The DV is a very well known scheme and it's very easy to apply for.

    I would have thought using statistics from it as a good measure of how appealing the US as a place to live and work in is to various European nations.

    And please stop referring to the US as a ****hole.

    It's not.

    It's a huge vast country with a large diversity of people, economies, climate, environments etc.

    Some people are very very poor, some people are very very rich, and there are millions of people in the middle that are comfortable and have been for generations.

    Actually, have you ever lived in the US for a period of time ?


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    #100
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    phater phagan wrote: »
    A few months ago I met an American couple, in a local pub, who were visiting here. They were in their late 50's and were very pleased with the reception that they were getting in the various places.

    During the course of our conversation they mentioned that they had voted for Trump. I was curious why they had and asked them that. The woman said that the reason was immigration, social welfare programs and the loss of "American values".

    When her male friend went to the toilet she said they came to Ireland because he was angry about a family matter back in Missouri. I was curious and expressed that I hoped that the visit here would give them some relief from their problem.

    When her male friend returned she then left to go to the ladies, and he also mentioned the family matter problem. I asked him what the problem might be, and he said that the woman's son was in jail for selling drugs. I thought that it might be marijuana - but he informed me the son was in for the sale of heroin. As they say in the States "go figure?"

    Sorry what's the point ?

    Some guy from Missouri is in jail for selling heroine.

    And some American's in their 50s voted for Trump because of immigration, social welfare programs and the loss of "American values".


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    #101
    phater phagan
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭phater phagan


    Go figure!


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    #102
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Why don't you source that info to prove your point since you brough it up?

    The DV is a very well known scheme and it's very easy to apply for.

    I would have thought using statistics from it as a good measure of how appealing the US as a place to live and work in is to various European nations.

    And please stop referring to the US as a ****hole.

    It's not.

    It's a huge vast country with a large diversity of people, economies, climate, environments etc.

    Some people are very very poor, some people are very very rich, and there are millions of people in the middle that are comfortable and have been for generations.

    Actually, have you ever lived in the US for a period of time ?

    If you bothered to read my earlier posts you would see I did provide evidence that stated Norway migration to USA was below the rest of Europe you would also have seen the reasons for same.

    “That same year, 753,060 green-card holders became citizens. The number of Norwegians: 93. The number of Norwegians immigrants to the U.S. has steadily declined over the past five decades, according to data from the Migration Policy Institute, which studies global migration trends. In fact, there are fewer Norwegians living in the U.S. than any other major European country.”

    By its very nature the DV does now show the qualified migration to USA as for example doctors etc. Do not use that visa.


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    #103
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Sorry what's the point ?

    Some guy from Missouri is in jail for selling heroine.

    And some American's in their 50s voted for Trump because of immigration, social welfare programs and the loss of "American values".

    A heroin dealing family member is far more damaging to society than obsessions with immigrants being the cause of societal woes.


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    #104
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Sorry what's the point ?

    Some guy from Missouri is in jail for selling heroine..

    Human trafficking is a serious crime in fairness.

    I imagine the posters point is that they decry the loss of American values due to the perception of criminals entering the country whilst having a drug dealer as a family member.


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    #105
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    A heroin dealing family member is far more damaging to society than obsessions with immigrants being the cause of societal woes.

    And if they failed at instilling American values in their offspring, it's kind of lame to want the president to do it for them.


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    #106
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    strandroad wrote: »
    And if they failed at instilling American values in their offspring, it's kind of lame to want the president to do it for them.

    I can see a president as a bit of a role model but ultimately goes towards good parenting. But a president who boasts about grabbing women by the "pussy" and tends to be a crass nasty bully is a poor choice in terms of good qualities. :p


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    #107
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    I can see a president as a bit of a role model but ultimately goes towards good parenting. But a president who boasts about grabbing women by the "pussy" and tends to be a crass nasty bully is a poor choice in terms of good qualities. :p

    Yet he is loved by the born again crowd go figure.


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    #108
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Really Interested wrote: »
    If you bothered to read my earlier posts you would see I did provide evidence that stated Norway migration to USA was below the rest of Europe you would also have seen the reasons for same.

    “That same year, 753,060 green-card holders became citizens. The number of Norwegians: 93. The number of Norwegians immigrants to the U.S. has steadily declined over the past five decades, according to data from the Migration Policy Institute, which studies global migration trends. In fact, there are fewer Norwegians living in the U.S. than any other major European country.”

    By its very nature the DV does now show the qualified migration to USA as for example doctors etc. Do not use that visa.

    You linked an article and quoted from it that Norwegian takeup of US citizenship was low.

    I linked data that showed that Norwegians applied for green cards via the DV lottery at mostly the same rates as other northern European nationals.

    And of course a doctor could use the DV lottery, nothing would preclude them from doing so.

    It's the easiest way to apply for green card, no need for loking for sponsorship, immigrantion lawyers etc etc.

    The success rate is low but the application is easy, and free.

    I applied for and got a green card via DV as an IT professional.


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    #109
    one world order
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭one world order


    While all previous presidents never talked about the flow of drugs being pumped all over America, Trump to his credit has spoken many times about stopping it. Cutting off the supply channels at the Mexican border and stopping the flow of immigrants from poor countries would be a good start.


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    #110
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Really Interested wrote: »
    Yet he is loved by the born again crowd go figure.

    It's not that hard, just pander to the "Moral Majority" types (i.e. abortion is bigly bad, LGBT equality is bigly bad) and they'll overlook anything short of child molestation.


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    #111
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,142 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Agree with you mostly Pope, but they overlook child molestation, too.


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    #112
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,034 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    A heroin dealing family member is far more damaging to society than obsessions with immigrants being the cause of societal woes.

    We have far to little information and context to "go figure" as the poster asks us to do.

    Perhaps a once quite town developed a drug problem over the same time period as there was an influx of Latin American immigration to that town, and thus the son became involved with the local drug trade.

    As I said we have neither context nor information to draw any conclusions.


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    #113
    one world order
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭one world order


    Water John wrote: »
    Agree with you mostly Pope, but they overlook child molestation, too.

    Really, isn't acceptance of pedophilla, homosexuality, incest and beastality the driving force of our Luciferian worshiping controllers. Compare that to the teachings from the Bible that instill moral values and good behaviour. I think we know which is right.


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    #114
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    one world order wrote: »
    Really, isn't acceptance of pedophilla, homosexuality, incest and beastality the driving force of our Luciferian worshiping controllers. Compare that to the teachings from the Bible that instill moral values and good behaviour. I think we know which is right.

    Yep, being gay is perfectly fine and rightfully so... But you must hang with pretty scary circles of people if you think people view the rest of it as acceptable. I've never encountered any person that would accept any of the above as okay.


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    #115
    one world order
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭one world order


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    Yep, being gay is perfectly fine and rightfully so... But you must hang with pretty scary circles of people if you think people view the rest of it as acceptable.

    Based on your username, your well on the way to accepting all four.


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    #116
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    You linked an article and quoted from it that Norwegian takeup of US citizenship was low.

    I linked data that showed that Norwegians applied for green cards via the DV lottery at mostly the same rates as other northern European nationals.

    And of course a doctor could use the DV lottery, nothing would preclude them from doing so.

    It's the easiest way to apply for green card, no need for loking for sponsorship, immigrantion lawyers etc etc.

    The success rate is low but the application is easy, and free.

    I applied for and got a green card via DV as an IT professional.

    Why would a Doctor apply for a lottery visa when he or she would be guaranteed a skill visa. A IT visa is not guaranteed but a medical skills visa is.

    Good for you getting a DV visa if you are Irish don’t forget not too long ago we the ****ehole country.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2018/01/12/trump-wants-more-immigrants-from-norway-theres-a-reason-they-arent-coming/

    “Norwegians have it so well today that, the president’s entreaties aside, they don’t even bother coming to America any more. Based on the most recent detailed numbers available from the Census Bureau, which has enough data to track migrants from more than 100 countries, the 25,300 Norwegian-born people living in the U.S. are the third smallest group it can measure, in raw-number terms.

    Many countries above it on the list are smaller in terms of population. The only two below it on the list are Latvia, which has about one-third of Norway’s population of 5.3 million, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, which is nearly 50 times smaller.”


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    #117
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    one world order wrote: »
    Based on your username, your well on the way to accepting all four.

    Nah, I don't think I've seen him support Roy Moore.


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    #118
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,687 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    We have far to little information and context to "go figure" as the poster asks us to do.

    Perhaps a once quite town developed a drug problem over the same time period as there was an influx of Latin American immigration to that town, and thus the son became involved with the local drug trade.

    As I said we have neither context nor information to draw any conclusions.

    I've drawn a conclusion.

    Nothing anyone can say will make America less 'awesome' to you.


    Clearly duped by sucking up all those 80s movies.

    Go figure.


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    #119
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,637 ✭✭✭eire4


    one world order wrote: »
    While all previous presidents never talked about the flow of drugs being pumped all over America, Trump to his credit has spoken many times about stopping it. Cutting off the supply channels at the Mexican border and stopping the flow of immigrants from poor countries would be a good start.

    IMHO decriminalize all drugs and treat drug problems as a health issue not a criminal issue would be a much better way to spend the resources currently being wasted.


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    #120
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    eire4 wrote: »
    IMHO decriminalize all drugs and treat drug problems as a health issue not a criminal issue would be a much better way to spend the resources currently being wasted.

    But that would mean you can't lock up so many brown people!


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    #121
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Why on earth are we comparing immigration from a first-world-country to another first-world country with immigration from a third (or at least, high second) world country to a first world country? Of course they will be different.

    The US isn't bad. I personally have no desire to leave the US and return to the EU, I will be quite happy to live out the rest of my days here. Is it as 'good' as *insert EU country here*, maybe, maybe not, depending on your criteria. But it's quite reasonable. Much as most EU countries are reasonable. People looking to leave one reasonable country to another are inherently going to be fewer than folks looking to leave a poorer country for one which is better off.

    Does anyone, perhaps, have the relevant figures for the percentage of population of US citizens looking to move to Norway? Or the percentage of people from Haiti or Botswana looking to move to the US vs *insert EU country here*? Surely that is a slightly better reflection of perceived relative merit, subject to geographic limitations (Is it easier to get to one than the other?).

    The other question is as to what proportion of the population of any country is eligible to enter in the first place. I suspect that a significantly higher proportion of the population of Norway would be eligible to enter New Zealand than of Burkino Faso, for example... Why? Because immigration policy is determined by the needs of the nation. 100 years go, the US needed manpower more than skills. Hence we took most anyone and created the Great Melting Pot. Nowadays, we need skills more than manpower and need to be a little pickier about who we let in.


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