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The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭LynnGrace


    Reading the thread over the last few days.

    Two suggestions from it that I would like to see taken on board would be (1) a better channel for feedback than exists currently and (2) the facility to hide threads.

    I have no particular threads in mind, re (2) but I find the facility useful on another forum that I frequent, and it might be helpful all around.

    Feedback, as has been said, needs to be revamped so that it is a useful mechanism, geared towards making improvements.

    Overall, personally, I enjoy boards.
    And in relation to moderation, it's not a job I would want, but the mods that I see, in the various parts of boards, that I am on, seem to do a good job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal



    If I was a more paranoid man I'd suggest it was a deliberate act of sabotage by members of the opposition...

    I’d put nothing past Fianna F tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Oh will you ever stop it!

    I closed the thread because I judged it to be getting too far fro discussion into arguments. I dealt with the backlog of reported posts while I completed some paper work, fed the kids and had a bite to eat. Oh yeah, i also compleyed some time sensitive work as well but in future i shall point out to the appropriate authorities that your criteria vastly exceeds theirs.

    Sorry if it doesn't fit into your criteria of life, I shall endeavour to do my utmost in future to conform to your idealised criteria of modding.

    Perhaps you could set out the exact criteria and actions required in future to salve your discomfort and we can discuss them in a mature manner here before we adopt the entire lot as they obviously are the only criteria that matter in the Universe. It's not like anyone could have different criteria or objectives to yours.

    I am sooooooo looking forward to hearing your obviously superlative contribution.

    First of all I'd just like to point out the irony that if I had responded to another posted in this manner and in a different thread, I'd have been carded for sure. And I wouldn't have argued with the legitimacy of that. :p

    All I'm suggesting is that the routine locking of discussions when mods judge them to be "getting out of hand" is rather unique to Boards and is very rare on other forums, where a certain amount of disorder during the gap between reporting and moderating is tolerated for the sake of allowing a more free-flowing conversational atmosphere, and I (and I suspect others) find that a far more enjoyable forum format. That's all. I wasn't personally attacking you as an individual mod, this is Boards' entire moderational culture and has been for years (essentially, erring on the side of caution rather than erring on the side of facilitating ongoing conversation). I only cited that thread as one example of this happening, because it was the most recent such example I could think of off the top of my head. On most other forums, temporary thread locks like these simply don't happen at all - if a thread is locked, it's locked permanently because it really has gone off the deep end. If it's in the process of going off the deep end, the mods moderate as they can but just accept in the meantime that sometimes, ongoing conversations fall below standards and that that's ok from time to time as long as it's properly dealt with by the mods when they get a chance. On Boards, threads are "temporarily locked for review" - sometimes for hours or several days - absolutely all the time, it's an extremely frequent occurrence.

    Boards micromanages, in that there's a culture here of not even allowing the risk of a few minutes of potential disorder if the alternative is stifling debate. Most other forums seem to take the opposite view, at least most other forums that I've personally been part of over the years - that it's preferable to take the risk of occasional rule breaking not being moderated as quickly as it should, for the sake of not shutting down discussion altogether.

    If I could offer an analogy, it's like the concept of "advantage" in rugby, wherein sometimes when a foul has been committed, it is temporarily let slide so that the game can continue flowing if the non-rule breaking team seem to be in a good position. The foul is then called in and dealt with subsequently without disrupting an ongoing moment of play.

    You don't have to agree with me that this is the better way to run a forum, hell you can even dispute that this is the way most forums are run and that Boards is a total outlier when it comes to micromanagement, but it'd be nice if you could, to talk like a mod for a second, attack the post rather than the poster :p


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    I’d put nothing past Fianna F tbh.

    Politics Cafe with that sort of talk!



    I think that there should be a bit of a clarification on what are being called the 'Chat Threads' in this discussion.

    They are real threads, with real discussion on a subject, but have wiggle room for a bit of chat. The whole threads are not dominated solely by chat, and not attended by the same people.
    So they are a thread with a topic, but some of the topics become personal and warrant some brief discussion.

    So labelling them as chat threads is probably not correct. They are not chat megathreads which I think some people think they are.


    And yeah, can we try get along so that we can keep this thread going. There's some excellent stuff in here!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    As of right now, other that one user changing their vote it would be a dead heat regarding the chat sub-forum suggestion.

    Hardly minority opinion...

    :confused: Are you counting something different to me?


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 2,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kurtosis


    LynnGrace wrote: »
    Reading the thread over the last few days.

    Two suggestions from it that I would like to see taken on board would be (1) a better channel for feedback than exists currently and (2) the facility to hide threads.

    If ignoring threads is challenging to code in vbulletin, could it be done through the thread tags system perhaps (e.g. allowing users to assign a custom tag for themselves)? And if not, would a compromise be to introduce tags for "chat" threads in AH (and possibly other categories) to allow people to filter these?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I was thread banned today. I disagreed with the Mod's decision and PM'd them saying I felt it was unjustly OTT and outlined why I thought so. They got back to me not even 10 minutes later and said the ban was uplifted and was mistakenly handed down and that warning sufficed.

    I wonder do people actually PM the Mods? I've PM'd them a couple of times and usually they're very fair. They won't always lift the infraction but they're not dicks about it either. That's just my experience with them on 1 to 1 encounters.
    To be fair I'd find that too.

    Personally I find boards.ie to be extremely cliquey and those chat threads are generally broken up to avoid that happening, but I don't think that's where the cliques are. AH is not as bad for it, I think it's very well run overall, now but for a time it was a horrible place to post if you didn't follow the echo chamber.

    That aside my personal experience of the higher ups was appalling. A few years ago a poster followed me around from thread to thread harrassing me and accusing me of cheating. The poster clearly was mentally unwell but although I followed protocol and reported the posts instead of retaliating on thread, I received a message from an admin telling both of us if he recieved one more reported post from either of us he would site ban the both of us. This poster was allowed continue their behaviour until they started to threathen to Jill themselves via PM with another user and was eventually site banned.

    Then when my details were posted elsewhere and I was trying to be unmasked, there was many other users targeted too. Some were successful in being doxxed, others weren't. The only help I received from boards.ie was from a cmod who was actually fantastic but that was it. "The office" and admins were posting in feedback at the time that if we kept it off boards they would do what they could to help privately but when I followed instruction and asked for help privately I was told "there's nothing we can do, if you feel unsafe contact the gardai". Boards solution was to ban the forum name and ban users who insisted on broadcasting that this was happening to them. At no point did boards make posters aware this was happening or a risk and in my honest opinion it should have been made public to the posters who were at risk of having their private information being plastered all over the place.

    It was mismanaged and badly handled and boards don't give a fûck once it's kept on the DL. Harassment, bullying, stalking - whatever; it's all fine nothing boards can do but don't you dare hassle them with it. They'd rather threathen you with a site ban than deal with an issue.

    I still enjoy posting on boards because I think AH has improved a lot in the past few years but I still think the higher ups are the cause of the entire problem. Cliques and poor moderation has made boards an absolute laughing stock and has caused many irate users to post elsewhere about here, putting people off posting.

    Hiding the fact people can't see closed accounts and getting rid of the feedback forum is the equivalent of putting a band aid on a broken leg.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,855 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Just read through pages & pages of pro & anti chat posts. I always thought that I could simply scroll down the page & ignore the threads that I am not interested in :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Discodog wrote: »
    Just read through pages & pages of pro & anti chat posts. I always thought that I could simply scroll down the page & ignore the threads that I am not interested in :)

    Not at all. You have to read them all and are subject to a three month ban if you scroll past them. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    There was an option 10 years ago to block/ignore threads on vbulletin (Idk if it was on boards though)

    Surly this wouldn't be hard to do again



    https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-127487.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Not at all. You have to read them all and are subject to a three month ban if you scroll past them. ;)
    Discodog wrote: »
    Just read through pages & pages of pro & anti chat posts. I always thought that I could simply scroll down the page & ignore the threads that I am not interested in :)

    I forget who said this, but someone once replied to a thread bashing a particular band with "Not being able to not listen to a band you don't like must be a genuine burden, for which you have my sympathies. I mean, right now, I'm literally not listening to thousands of bands I don't like. My evening would be quite ruined if, like you, I had to listen to all of them."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Discodog wrote: »
    Just read through pages & pages of pro & anti chat posts. I always thought that I could simply scroll down the page & ignore the threads that I am not interested in :)

    Would be interesting to see the bounce rate of the forum and if it has changed much. How many people are landing on the page and leaving instead of scrolling down. My experience of says that people tend to stay on page one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    That aside my personal experience of the higher ups was appalling. A few years ago a poster followed me around from thread to thread harrassing me and accusing me of cheating. The poster clearly was mentally unwell but although I followed protocol and reported the posts instead of retaliating on thread, I received a message from an admin telling both of us if he recieved one more reported post from either of us he would site ban the both of us.

    What the actual f*ck? :eek::eek::eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    its the sheer amount of snowflakes and the PC brigade which puts many off posting on forums, you literally can't say boo these days without some bleedin snowflake accusing you of being either racist, fascist, sexist or whatever comes into their minds,this coupled with moderators who think they are actually important because they are a moderator of some forum and dish out warnings like confetti.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    its the sheer amount of snowflakes and the PC brigade which puts many off posting on forums, you literally can't say boo these days without some bleedin snowflake accusing you of being either racist, fascist, sexist or whatever comes into their minds,this coupled with moderators who think they are actually important because they are a moderator of some forum and dish out warnings like confetti.

    Can I ask that you not use the word 'snowflake' twice in the same sentence please. It offends me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    I would like an option to not see any posts that contain the word snowflake. Outside of the weather forum of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    Can I ask that you not use the word 'snowflake' twice in the same sentence please. It offends me.

    This wouldn't be a problem if not for the absolute scourge of comma overuse and full stop underuse. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,948 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    Can I ask that you not use the word 'snowflake' twice in the same sentence please. It offends me.

    Typical snowflake response to snowflake use.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    its the sheer amount of snowflakes and the PC brigade which puts many off posting on forums, you literally can't say boo these days without some bleedin snowflake accusing you of being either racist, fascist, sexist or whatever comes into their minds,this coupled with moderators who think they are actually important because they are a moderator of some forum and dish out warnings like confetti.

    There seems to be more posts hand-wringing about the "snowflake PC brigade" than people posting who fit that description.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Arghus wrote: »
    I would like an option to not see any posts that contain the word snowflake. Outside of the weather forum of course.
    I would like to see a way of getting users to use a bit of common sense and avoid entering into discussions that may offend them if the discussion goes against their point of view.

    If the discussion is contentious, then robust expressions will clearly be on display (I am not talking about personal abuse of course), if you're too easily offended, then you simply shouldn't be joining that particular discussion.

    Maybe there could be a (user selected) rating for each thread, where the [snowflake melting level] can be monitored, if a sensitive user sees a high level, they can simply avoid the thread.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    There seems to be more posts hand-wringing about the "snowflake PC brigade" than people posting who fit that description.

    That's always been the case.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    There seems to be more posts hand-wringing about the "snowflake PC brigade" than people posting who fit that description.
    Well, snowflakes will of course melt away from such a confrontation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    I would like to see a way of getting users to use a bit of common sense and avoid entering into discussions that may offend them if the discussion goes against their point of view.

    If the discussion is contentious, then robust expressions will clearly be on display (I am not talking about personal abuse of course), if you're too easily offended, then you simply shouldn't be joining that particular discussion.

    The eternally offended and particularly the eternally offended by the offended are tragically poor judges of their own levels of tolerance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Well, snowflakes will of course melt away from such a confrontation.

    K7G.gif


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    I would like to see a way of getting users to use a bit of common sense and avoid entering into discussions that may offend them if the discussion goes against their point of view.

    If the discussion is contentious, then robust expressions will clearly be on display (I am not talking about personal abuse of course), if you're too easily offended, then you simply shouldn't be joining that particular discussion.

    Maybe there could be a (user selected) rating for each thread, where the [snowflake melting level] can be monitored, if a sensitive user sees a high level, they can simply avoid the thread.

    I can't count the times I've engaged in one of those robust exchanges and all the poster I'm arguing with can do is tell me I'm an offended snowflake. Describing something as offensive, fascist, racist or whatever does not necessarily mean you're personally offended.

    If you can't handle people telling you something you've said is objectionable then take your own advice tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Arghus wrote: »
    That's always been the case.

    Sure, I'm just pointing that out to highlight that "snowflakes" are more than matched. People would also have you believe that nothing but left-wing posts are allowed and it is so far from the truth.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can't count the times I've engaged in one of those robust exchanges and all the poster I'm arguing with can do is tell me I'm an offended snowflake. Describing something as offensive, fascist, racist or whatever does not necessarily mean you're personally offended.

    If you can't handle people telling you something you've said is objectionable then take your own advice tbh.
    It's usually taken as a sign of defeat when a poster starts to turn on another poster rather than the subject in hand. The point I'm making is that if someone is easily offended and takes the arguments personally, then they shouldn't be taking part.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    When everything is political, nothing is objective

    People are so quick to throw out political labels these days that they'd almost judge you by which urinal you piss in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,948 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    El Caballo wrote: »
    When everything is political, nothing is objective

    People are so quick to throw out political labels these days that they'd almost judge you by which urinal you piss in.

    Middle pisser eh?

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭keith_sixteen


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    The post above yours explains it well, with stickies and then the chat threads, on the touch site, that's a lot of front page real estate taken over for the benefit a very small amount of posters. It's disproportionate to amount of people that use the threads. To a new would-be user, it looks like not much is going on and unwieldy threads are not something a new user is likely to dive into. Meanwhile, some established posters like me are growing a bit bored of AH as it feels like it's stagnating. And behemoth threads being bumped regularly by a small number of dedicated posters can mean that new threads drop down the page fast. If they go onto page 2 before gaining traction, forget about it. It can take a while for even an engaging thread to take hold and, IMO, behemoths are crowding out new threads which in turn means people are reluctant to start new threads which in turn compounds the issue. So a small number of forum members are influencing the forum in a big way, as far as I can see. There's a whole lot more to it than just "If you don't like the thread, don't read it". Other forums on the site have a strict 'one chat thread' rule. Why do you think that is if numerous chat threads aren't detrimental to a forum?

    I really wish people would read the points made on the topic before coming out with "If you don't want to read the threads then don't" for the umpteenth time. And I do there is a little bit of oversensitivity going on in the thread from people who are regulars on the chat threads. I could turn around and say "if you don't want to read this feedback, then you don't have to" but can you not see how annoying that would be? I've always found it to be an inane sentiment. Why bother criticising anything if all one has to do is ignore it? We all criticise stuff. Why not this?

    Reads to me like you want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

    I get the point that there is limited real estate with stickies and what not.

    The real issue is the fundamental lack of functionality on boards. The only development of the site seems to be cosmetic and deeply unpopular from what I can tell.

    Why not add a "hide this thread" function? That way, more people see and participate in the content they want.

    Killing or moving the chat threads is a lazy solution to something which really shouldn't be an issue.


This discussion has been closed.
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