The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18

KyussB · 05-01-2018 04:15PM

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

It wasn't suggested by a moderator.

I wasn't saying it was suggested by a moderator, I was saying many of the solutions to presented 'problems', were moderator-solutions - and by that, I meant solutions which require moderators to interfere with forums and the flow of discussion - when in many/most cases, technical solutions are better and avoid the need for moderator interference, particularly given that over-modding is reliably the no.1 complaint about Boards.

Fr_Dougal · 05-01-2018 04:17PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

And yet the threads you dismiss as unworthy of merit are thriving in terms of posts, posters and general views.

The reason they are is because people are connecting with them and view them as important, more important than the more 'worthy' threads, the more serious threads that you desire in AH.

The majority of posters seem to view those threads as being more in the spirit of AH than the threads you desire. Perhaps you need to open/contribute more to those threads you desire to become the backbone of AH instead of dismissing others threads?

It would seem to be the easiest way to progress towards where you wish AH to be rather than to move those threads to a subforum.

Or indeed, a counter argument could be to move the serious threads to their own subforum where the serious discussions you desire can be carried out with likeminded posters?

Would that be acceptable to you?

So even after I have explained it to you, you still don’t get it?

there’s a difference between chat threads and lighthearted threads. Chat threads are cliquey and not discussion threads.

That’s a fair point about contributing more threads in AH, I will certainly put in more of an effort.

Look, I get that from a mods prospective it’s good to have a mixture of serious threads and lighthearted threads, and right now these chat threads are probably as close to lighthearted as we have in AH at the moment. Back in the day we used to have the same discussion about the forum, that it was doom and gloom and no craic(you’ll probably still be able to find those posts).

These chat threads are not the answer, IMO. We’re up to half a dozen now, what happens when a couple more creep in? And then a couple more? I can think of another half a dozen thread titles that would decend into chat/dear diary posts and they’d last forever.

05-01-2018 04:21PM

You should join in Dougal. Maybe you might even like it

riffmongous · 05-01-2018 04:21PM

Esel wrote: »

Would a 'New threads in Forum' be a good option?

That option is already there, but it's quite hidden and it doesn't really tell you where the action is. Something like the reddit 'rising' or boards 'trending' as one of two default views would be perfect.

_Dara_ · 05-01-2018 04:22PM

NollagShona wrote: »

If you prefer reddit, why not just use it?
Why ask boards to be reddit?
Small fish in big pond?

Not sure if this is directed at me but I said nothing about reddit.

Again with the lazy "if you don't like X, do Y" rebuttal. Maybe we are here because we are fond of boards as it was not so long ago and would like to keep using the site but are finding that less appealing of late.

gifted · 05-01-2018 04:22PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You should join in Dougal. Maybe you might even like it

You'd love it...Hun..lol lol

Sephiroth_dude · 05-01-2018 04:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You should join in Dougal. Maybe you might even like it

One negative post and he won't sure. I wonder did he ever look at it before that post was posted.

_Dara_ · 05-01-2018 04:25PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

So even after I have explained it to you, you still don’t get it? there’s a difference between chat threads and lighthearted threads. Chat threads are cliquey and not discussion threads.

On the bolded bit, absolutely. I don't know why the two are being conflated by people. I've given examples of non-serious non-chat threads up-page and there have a few other examples given throughout the thread.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

These chat threads are not the answer, IMO. We’re up to half a dozen now, what happens when a couple more creep in? And then a couple more? I can think of another half a dozen thread titles that would decend into chat/dear diary posts and they’d last forever.

Exactly, where does it stop? Other forums on the site only allow one, with good reason. I think as a busy forum, two to three might be OK for AH but no more unless in a subforum.

GreeBo · 05-01-2018 04:28PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

And yet the threads you dismiss as unworthy of merit are thriving in terms of posts, posters and general views.

THats pretty unfair, I dont think anyone (or at least I am certainly not) dismissing any threads as unworthy of anything.
I just think never ending (not in a derogatory sense) threads hinder new threads.

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Or indeed, a counter argument could be to move the serious threads to their own subforum where the serious discussions you desire can be carried out with likeminded posters?

Would that be acceptable to you?

I'd have no issue with that other than I think AH would only have a couple of threads and it would seem strange to have the sub-forum larger than the main forum.

A counter proposal, allow the never-ending threads to exist directly under Social & Fun.

riffmongous · 05-01-2018 04:33PM

NollagShona wrote: »

If you prefer reddit, why not just use it?
Why ask boards to be reddit?
Small fish in big pond?

We do use it. And reddit has become far more popular than boards in Ireland too if you trust Alexia, just saying.

I don't want Boards to be Reddit, but I do want it to be as popular as Reddit while being as fun and interesting as Boards was and often is. I definitely don't want it to die out, but I also don't want it to become a place where I see nothing interesting anymore.

Tom Mann Centuria · 05-01-2018 04:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You should join in Dougal. Maybe you might even like it

gifted wrote: »

You'd love it...Hun..lol lol

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

One negative post and he won't sure. I wonder did he ever look at it before that post was posted.

Not sure why personalising posts helps, or make these threads you're keen to keep where they are, look less cliquey by all having a dig at another posters expense.

Fwiw, the threads aren't cliquey in my experience but posts like that don't support that reality.

gifted · 05-01-2018 04:39PM

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Not sure why personalising posts helps, or make these threads you're keen to keep where they are, look less cliquey by all having a dig at another posters expense.

Fwiw, the threads aren't cliquey in my experience but posts like that don't support that reality.

I'd be surprised if the poster didn't see what my post was..an attempt at humour .....however, if the poster is upset then I offer my apologies, no way was I attempting to personalise anything.

Barry Badrinath · 05-01-2018 04:40PM

I used to pop into the WAYN thread, just being a nosey cnut. It was a "non chat" thread at the time, then loads of chat happened and I reported it because I honestly found it quite annoying aaaand the chatting was off topic, like people needed a Blog, type of annoying.

Then, to shut me up, the thread title was changed to "no hats"; taking away my argument which I was happy with.

Then I realised that without the chat, it was just a load of one sided bollox. The chat actually made it a bit more interesting for the contributors.

So, four things I learned from it:

1. The chat aspect made it a better thread for some of those who wanted to use it.

2. I realised that just because I didnt like chat, doesnt mean there shouldnt be any.

3. I just stay away from threads that I dont want to contribute to, chat or no chat, simple.

4. I dont care where anyone else is, so why am I going into it and why am I bothered if theres off topic chat.

Sephiroth_dude · 05-01-2018 04:41PM

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Not sure why personalising posts helps,

Read it that way if you want but that's not what I was doing.

Permabear · 05-01-2018 04:42PM

This post has been deleted.

mzungu · 05-01-2018 04:43PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Doesnt sound like much of a community so!

Also there are lots of examples where it flourishes as a sub-forum.
Especially since AH is itself a sub-forum of Social & Fun!

/edit
Dammit, ok definitely out now.

I was talking about chat threads being moved. Shifting it over to its own forum with 4-5 threads won't work. The example was given with Ranting and Raving before, sometimes if you mess with things it can kill it off unintentionally.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

If 70% of the posts are coming from 20 posters the posters can choose to let the threads die or not, it’s not like they won’t know where the threads are. It only effects a tiny percentage of the AH posters.

Could the same not be said for those wanting to move the threads to a sub-forum though?

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

If history repeats itself like Cool Vids and Pics, the posters will have a very successful sub forum.

You might be right, but I highly doubt it. CV&P had a big enough following whereas chat threads are quite niche. It suits them better to come under the wing of the AH mothership as a way to keep them going. Niche forums die a death of their own.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

The Donald thread that you mentioned isn’t a chat thread, it’s a discussion thread.

Content doesn't matter. If chat threads are taking the blame for making the place look stale (to old and new users alike) then the exact same could be said about Trump threads, and 8th Amendment threads etc.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

The type of chitchat that we see in these chat threads belongs in a whatsapp group or FB tbh, a sub forum or a single chat thread is a more than fair compromise.

We live in the age of Facebook though, and while I would not like Boards to become some Instagram selfie borefest, the fact is that people will want threads to simply chat away. The users of a forum, like all forms of social media, want a bit of escapism at the end of a long day at work or whatever. Moving threads because they don't reach an acceptable level of discourse would be one way to alienate users. It sends a message, mainly "What you are discussing is not important enough to stay, so off you go". I'm not surprised the last thread moved to R&R died, humans can be creatures of habit and resistant to change (even small change) and it can have unintended knock on consequences.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

a sub forum or a single chat thread is a more than fair compromise.

That could work. If it came down to a choice it would be preferable to the full nuclear option that is the sub-forum idea. Although, I still think AH is big enough for all of them.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 05-01-2018 04:43PM

This chat thing is being blown out of all proportion. Maybe they are a factor in the decline in new content in AH but they are not a main factor in the decline in traffic in the site.

If a handful of posters banging on and on and on because they're annoyed people don't agree them leads to the main upshot of this thread being another bloody subforum for chat threads it'll be disastrous. Ye don't like the chat threads or want them in AH, message received loud and clearly.

Could the main issues raised in the thread (whatever's on Beasty's list) be put to some sort of straw poll to the userbase of AH seeing as it's the busiest forum? I think there would have to be some way to prevent an influx of re-regs flooding in to wreck it, but would it be possible?

I appreciate the moderator and admin input and attention here but it would be helpful surely to see what the userbase thinks are the most important issues? The moderation thing probably can't be solved that way but simple yes/no questions.

Tom Mann Centuria · 05-01-2018 04:43PM

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Read it that way if you want but that's not what I was doing.

So you weren't personalising a post by mentioning a specific poster? Gotcha.

NollagShona · 05-01-2018 04:44PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

Not sure if this is directed at me but I said nothing about reddit.

Again with the lazy "if you don't like X, do Y" rebuttal. Maybe we are here because we are fond of boards as it was not so long ago and would like to keep using the site but are finding that less appealing of late.

You +1 ed the Reddit post (meaning you agree)

But if I like the taste of coke and not Pepsi, I drink Coke, not ask Pepsi to change flavour.

Don’t conflate lazy with simple or was it just an attempt at a cheap dig?

05-01-2018 04:45PM

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Not sure why personalising posts helps, or make these threads you're keen to keep where they are, look less cliquey by all having a dig at another posters expense.

Fwiw, the threads aren't cliquey in my experience but posts like that don't support that reality.

Dougal hasn't held back in his deep dislike and demeaning attitude towards certain threads. I'm not going to sit back and see a community be ripped to shreds.

Beasty · 05-01-2018 04:46PM

I personally don't think it's a good idea to try and split forums like that. It may have worked with Cool Videos, but I'm not convinced with something that has such a wide appeal as AH, the sum of the parts will equal the combined forum. That's because I would imagine posters will tend to stick to one forum over the other and you lose some of the passing interest

I think Cool Videos was sufficiently discrete but the Politics Cafe may be a better example of where my concerns are. Yes it is itself a discrete subject, and it's difficult to police something like that in AH, but a few light-hearted "political" threads remain. I think (and this is my personal view only) AH thrives on the diversity of topics, and moving "chatty" ones or "serious" ones elsewhere would mean AH loses some of its identity

riffmongous · 05-01-2018 04:47PM

NollagShona wrote: »

If you prefer reddit, why not just use it?
Why ask boards to be reddit?
Small fish in big pond?

And is that supposed to be a dig?
This thread is tearing us apart

I'm done, it was a good discussion though!

NollagShona · 05-01-2018 04:48PM

riffmongous wrote: »

And is that supposed to be a dig?

This thread is tearing us apart

It was proffering a reason. Some people (me included) find reddit too big

Tom Mann Centuria · 05-01-2018 04:49PM

riffmongous wrote: »

And is that supposed to be a dig?

This thread is tearing us apart

Even without sound, you can see that's great acting.

05-01-2018 04:50PM

Thread really has become a good example of some of the problems with boards tbh.

Remember a few days ago when it was a reasonably serious discussion about high level approaches taken by mods, users, owners?

Not saying anything was going to come of it but even if it was don before it's a discussion worth having every few years.

Now it's a few posters griping quite narkily about something they don't like, and repeating themselves at length as if the problem was everyone else's reading comprehension rather than maybe considering that their points have been understood the first time but yknow....just not agreed with or whatever

GreeBo · 05-01-2018 04:51PM

Damn this thread got bitchy real quick, and not a single piece of moderating to blame.

This is why we cant have nice things.

LadyMacBeth_ · 05-01-2018 04:57PM

The sniping in this thread is one of the reasons why I tend to post in the chatty threads and not in the other threads in AH. Maybe some posters get off on getting a dig in at others but I don't. I also don't enjoy arguing with people over the colour of the sky or something equally as unimportant and tedious, ad nauseam. Why people would prefer this over light-hearted, funny, amusing, touching chat threads with a great community spirit, I will never understand.

Fr_Dougal · 05-01-2018 04:59PM

Beasty wrote: »

I personally don't think it's a good idea to try and split forums like that. It may have worked with Cool Videos, but I'm not convinced with something that has such a wide appeal as AH, the sum of the parts will equal the combined forum. That's because I would imagine posters will tend to stick to one forum over the other and you lose some of the passing interest

I think Cool Videos was sufficiently discrete but the Politics Cafe may be a better example of where my concerns are. Yes it is itself a discrete subject, and it's difficult to police something like that in AH, but a few light-hearted "political" threads remain. I think (and this is my personal view only) AH thrives on the diversity of topics, and moving "chatty" ones or "serious" ones elsewhere would mean AH loses some of its identity

And what happens if we see another couple of threads that morph into chat threads? Up to 8 then...and then another couple?

_Dara_ · 05-01-2018 05:03PM

NollagShona wrote: »

You +1 ed the Reddit post (meaning you agree)

I agreed with going elsewhere, that doesn't mean reddit.

NollagShona wrote: »

Don’t conflate lazy with simple or was it just an attempt at a cheap dig?

The "if you don't like X, do Y" argument is a lazy and simplistic one. Whenever and wherever it's deployed. Why bother criticising anything? Every single person who deploys that line of argument has themselves at some stage criticised something. People criticise things in the hopes of making them better.

05-01-2018 05:05PM

I don't think one perennial chat thread will clutter up the page too much. Instead of shipping posters into a separate room and away from casual involvement with other threads, just amalgamate the existing threads into a 'How's your day going?' thread, and work away. You'll get all the posters from the different threads contributing and it'll make the chat more interesting for it. It'll make space on the page and everyone can engage or ignore as applies. I know they mean a lot to people and I'd hate to take them away, but I really don't want those same posters to leave AH either. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

Taking posters out of AH can only be bad for AH. There's nothing wrong with chat, just too many iterations of it.

I like Electro~Bitch suggestion about a poll of AH users regarding various points raised, perhaps only users of more than 3 months or yea many posts should be polled, to keep the re-Reginalds and their axe grinding to a minimum.

On the subject of private forums, I'm a member of one and there is a strict no-discussion of users outside the forum rule. I think some people are adding two and two together and getting sixty. Sometimes Occam's Razor applies and the answer is more obvious and prosaic - it's not them, it's you - people don't want to hear the constant stream of schtick taking over threads and some posters are insensitive to peoples irritation at that.

I'm glad to see so much civil discussion about these issues, but I really don't think chat threads are the be-all and end-all of the problems. I'd love more light hearted fun and the onus for providing that is on all of us, the users. If we don't start the fun threads, there'll be no fun threads.

The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

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The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18