Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Jamiekelly · 31-12-2017 11:59PM

If you think Trump is great at managing money then google "Trump Deutsche Bank"
For a man who is reportedly worth billions he seems to have a lot of trouble paying back $300 million to Deutsche Bank, which in turn effects his borrowing at US banks. Why do you think he has to go to the Russians for finance? This is where Mueller is looking for good reason, and with DB more than happy to turn over Trump's finances then it's not hard to see why he is sweating over the investigation. His credit is drying up and his name brand licensing has been in a steady decline since the late 90's.

01-01-2018 12:13AM

Noel82 wrote: »

There's plenty of things he's done that can be seen as positives for his supporters. It all depends on your political ideology. He's done good things for the army, veteran associations and for the Police in general, the economy and stock markets have soured, I believe the last quarter was well over 3% GDP which nobody predicted and consumer confidence and employment are at all time highs. Cutting over regulation at a ratio of 11 to 2 or something, highest African American home ownership in history. The tax cuts as much as people here will hammer it, will have a positive influence on peoples pockets and the economy for the foreseeable future. He's drastically lowered the amount of people entering the country illegally and had something like an 80% increase over the previous year arresting and deporting/jailing gang members.

I could go on but you get the point - To say he's done absolutely nothing is bullshít of the highest order and if you want a honest conversation of his failings I'd be glad to have it, but it's hard to take anything anyone here says seriously be saying things like he's achieved nothing.

Most of the regulations he is cutting are there for good reason. Why would you support him gutting the EPA regulations for example. What's he got against clean air and water? On mobile and celebrating new years so I won't get into too much detail now, but I will tomorrow.

Noel82 · 01-01-2018 12:13AM

Jamiekelly wrote: »

If you think Trump is great at managing money then google "Trump Deutsche Bank"

I've said before he's sketchy with his Mafia ties and so on and he's no choirboy. The only thing that has any potential impact on me is what's being going on with the immigration problems in Europe in recent years as well as the social impact of political correctness and victim culture. It's hugely understated how neo Liberal values can turn people off and that's a big part of why he got elected.

On the ISIS front his administration has made considerable gains

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heres-how-much-ground-isis-has-lost-since-trump-took-over/article/2644137

"The defeat of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria rapidly accelerated during President Trump’s first year in office, beginning with the fall of East Mosul on Jan. 25, and continuing with a cascading series of defeats for the brutal terrorist group over the next 11 months. The campaign liberated twice as many people and 18 percent more territory as in the previous 28 months under President Barack Obama, according to Defense Department figures.
On Jan. 20 — the day Trump was inaugurated — an estimated 35,000 ISIS fighters held approximately 17,500 square miles of territory in both Iraq and Syria.
As of Dec. 21, the U.S. military estimates the remaining 1,000 or so fighters occupy roughly 1,900 squares miles of mostly barren desert primarily in Syria, where few people live, and where they will be forced to surrender or die."

I don't put that all down to Trump or blame Obama really, but it is what it is.

SkepticQuark · 01-01-2018 12:14AM

Noel82 wrote: »

There's plenty of things he's done that can be seen as positives for his supporters. It all depends on your political ideology. He's done good things for the army, veteran associations and for the Police in general, the economy and stock markets have soured, I believe the last quarter was well over 3% GDP which nobody predicted and consumer confidence and employment are at all time highs. Cutting over regulation at a ratio of 11 to 2 or something, highest African American home ownership in history. The tax cuts as much as people here will hammer it, will have a positive influence on peoples pockets and the economy for the foreseeable future. He's drastically lowered the amount of people entering the country illegally and had something like an 80% increase over the previous year arresting and deporting/jailing gang members.

I could go on but you get the point - To say he's done absolutely nothing is bullshít of the highest order and if you want an honest conversation of his failings I'd be glad to have it, but it's hard to take anything anyone here says seriously be saying things like he's achieved nothing.

Okay let me go through this.

Good things for vets, army and police? Specific policies or it didn't happen.

Economy and stock markets have been on the rise since 2009, it would be nice if you didn't rehash misleading Fox News talking points and actually accepted an ever-increasing graph for what it is. Talk to me 2/3 years into his Presidency before claiming he's done wonders for the economy.

Cutting regulation is a great thing isn't it, yeah letting oil and coal companies pollute waterways sure does work wonders for society now, doesn't it? I wish conservatives like yourself got over the hard on you have for cutting regulation when it's a simple fact that sometimes regulations exist to protect things from companies who if let off the hook would wreak havoc. Generally, this is environmental regulation but take for instance regulation on the financial sector, some of the regulations he's overturned were put in either a) to try and prevent another collapse of the sector or b) protect the average joe from unethical practices. Given this, please point to a regulation that was actually a bad regulation that he overturned.

Highest African American home ownership in history? A quick google search shows the opposite but do you have a specific study or reputable source to back it up?

Tax cuts are good when the economy has a massive deficit, yep you are the voodoo economics crowd after all. Define "foreseeable future", until the cuts for the middle class run out while the CT and cuts to the rich remain? Or do you actually naively think that corporations already sitting on hundreds of billions in offshore cash are now suddenly going to feel generous and actually start increasing wages in line with ever-increasing productivity?

I won't argue about the last point since I think there should be to an extent some enforcement of borders but at the same time, Trump has shown an extreme lack of compassion when it comes to policies like DACA. I'm of the opinion that if you are already there and not committing a crime just let them stay.

Noel82 · 01-01-2018 12:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Most of the regulations he is cutting are there for good reason. Why would you support him gutting the EPA regulations for example. What's he got against clean air and water? On mobile and celebrating new years so I won't get into too much detail now, but I will tomorrow.

Have a good night.

listermint · 01-01-2018 12:24AM

Noel82 wrote: »

Have a good night.

Can't debate , that's the second time you've said have a good night this evening.

He's sketchy with Mafia ties and up to his neck in debt. Your words

Yet he's the lesser of 2 evils.

Man's a warmonger all the things you have out about established politicians being.

Good luck

Jamiekelly · 01-01-2018 12:25AM

I'm pretty sure that's down to the Kurds. The same Kurds that Trump is now pulling funding for.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-told-turkish-president-recep-tayyip-erdogan-hes-cutting-off-syrian-kurds-report/article/2641635

Trump has more than enough potential to turn the Middle East situation into a massive win by backing the Kurds to the hilt. Even Israel is behind the Kurds as they are widely known to be secular but Trump continues to try and court Erdogan (whose own family were caught buying oil and antiques from ISIS at the height of their power) for some unknown reason. Though Trump himself has admitted he has a direct conflict of interest due to his Istanbul Hotel.

Noel82 · 01-01-2018 12:27AM

roddy15 wrote: »

Okay let me go through this.

Good things for vets, army and police? Specific policies of it didn't happen.

Army

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-trailguide-updates-trump-signs-executive-order-to-rebuild-1485554156-htmlstory.html

"
The Trump administration has instructed the Pentagon to carry out a top-to-bottom review of the nation’s military, and draw up a list of plans to upgrade equipment, improve training, and address current and future threats with an increased budget.
The executive action, signed Friday during President Trump’s first visit to the Pentagon, follows through on a campaign pledge to build up the military, which Trump says was ignored under the Obama administration."

VA

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-trump-signs-va-reform-bill-to-make-it-1498235052-htmlstory.html

President Trump signed into law Friday a bill that will ease restrictions on the discipline and termination of employees from the troubled veterans affairs department.
The Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act of 2017 is designed to speed up the process to discipline an employee for misconduct and put more decision-making power in the hands of Secretary of Veterans Affairs David Shulkin.
The act is in response to the 2014 VA scandals involving long wait times for medical care and attempts by VA employees to cover up the delays.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/19/donald-trump-signs-extension-veterans-choice-healt/

President Trump took one of his first steps Wednesday to address chronic problems in the Department of Veterans Affairs by signing a bill that extends stopgap services for veterans to go outside the VA medical system for care.

After campaigning on the issue of improving substandard care for veterans that dogged President Obama, Mr. Trump signed a reauthorization of the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act and announced that he would devote a press conference to veterans issues next week.
“The veterans have poured out their sweat and blood and tears for this country for so long, and it’s time that they are recognized and it’s time that we now take care of them and take care of them properly,” Mr. Trump said.

Police

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-executive-order-on-military-gear/

President Donald Trump has signed an executive order to restore the flow of surplus military gear to local police departments.
The Obama administration severely limited the program two years ago amid a public outcry over how the equipment was used during protests in Ferguson, Missouri, after the fatal police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown. But Attorney General Jeff Sessions says those restrictions went too far. He says the new approach will boost public safety.
Sessions announced Mr. Trump's decision to a cheering crowd Monday at the national convention of the Fraternal Order of Police in Nashville, Tennessee.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/president-trump-signs-pro-law-enforcement-anti-crime-executive-orders/

Today the President signed three Executive Orders to fight crime, gangs, and drugs; restore law and order; and support the dedicated men and women of law enforcement.
In the last year there has been violence and threats against law enforcement officials. These attacks on police are attacks on all Americans.
These Executive Orders recognize that the most important crime-fighting measure is to stand behind the officers who are on the front lines. The people who risk their lives every day to protect Americans need to know they are supported 100 percent.

Economy and stock markets have been on the rise since 2009, it would be nice if you didn't rehash misleading Fox News talking points and actually accepted an ever-increasing graph for what it is. Talk to me 2/3 years into his Presidency before claiming he's done wonders for the economy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/21/us-stock-futures-bumper-earnings-data-tax-on-the-agenda.html

S&P 500 closes at record high, hits 2,600 for the first time as tech rallies

The Dow, S&P 500 and Nasdaq hit record highs as tech stocks rallied.
The Technology Select Sector exchange-traded fund (XLK), which tracks the S&P 500 tech sector, rose 1 percent to reach levels not seen since 2000.
Investors also cheered strong quarterly results from top companies in Corporate America.

Cutting regulation is a great thing isn't it, yeah letting oil and coal companies pollute waterways sure does work wonders for society now, doesn't it?

This is such a thing as over regulation that stifles businesses and entrepreneurs

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-ahead-of-reagans-record-in-cutting-regulations/article/2636355

President Trump is keeping his promise to cut regulations and is on a course to top former President Reagan's record of slashing the mountain of red tape created by Jimmy Carter, according to two independent reports.
The Competitive Enterprise Institute said that Trump has issued 58 percent fewer major and costly regulations than former President Obama and slashed the Federal Register, the government's rule book, by 32 percent.
And American Action Forum said that the Trump administration has saved $560 million by cutting regulations and meeting its promise to eliminate two old rules for every new one.

Tax cuts are good when the economy has a massive deficit, yep you are the voodoo economics crowd after all. Define "foreseeable future", until the cuts for the middle class run out while the CT and cuts to the rich remain? Or do you actually naively think that corporations already sitting on hundreds of billions in offshore cash are now suddenly going to feel generous and actually start increasing wages in line with ever-increasing productivity?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-28/u-s-consumer-confidence-unexpectedly-rises-to-17-year-high

U.S. consumer confidence unexpectedly improved in November to a fresh 17-year high, a sign Americans are growing more confident about the economy and labor market, according to figures Tuesday from the New York-based Conference Board.

https://www.nfib.com/content/press-release/economy/small-business-optimism-hits-near-all-time-high-2/

Washington, D.C. – Not since the roaring Reagan economy has small business optimism been as high as it was in November, according to the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) Index of Small Business Optimism, released today.
“We haven’t seen this kind of optimism in 34 years, and we’ve seen it only once in the 44 years that NFIB has been conducting this research,” said NFIB President and CEO Juanita Duggan. “Small business owners are exuberant about the economy, and they are ready to lead the U.S. economy in a period of robust growth.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/27/trump-economy-reaching-his-3-percent-goal-even-without-tax-reform.html

"Trump economy reaching his 3 percent goal even without tax reform

President Trump's goal of 3 percent growth has been reached in two of the last three quarters since he took office.
Economists say the trend can continue at least into the fourth quarter, with help from the rebuilding after hurricanes.
The White House says now Congress needs to act on tax cuts to keep the momentum going.

"

I won't argue about the last point since I think there should be to an extent some enforcement of borders but at the same time, Trump has shown an extreme lack of compassion when it comes to policies like DACA. I'm of the opinion that if you are already there and not committing a crime just let them stay.

Fair enough. Black home ownership isn't the highest, I was wrong about that.

ancapailldorcha · 01-01-2018 12:34AM

Noel82 wrote: »

The mask slips. Like it or lump it Clinton's campaign financed and spread the dossier which has dominated the news cycle since January and the people "investigating" her have had partisan bias exposed, they are all major talking points. Here's 81 of his achievements ( white house talking points ) which to you might seem meaningless to his supporters they're not.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/year-one-list-81-major-trump-achievements-11-obama-legacy-items-repealed/article/2644159

Likely there's a list just as long of things he's said or done wrong which is something I can agree with you on. I'd say his biggest policy failures have been the repeal of Obamacare and construction of the border wall. Overall I'd say his first year is a failure, without the tax bill passing it could have been much worse.

What mask? I've never endorsed Clinton. Anti-Trump does not equate to pro-Clinton.

A lot of that list is just weird to be honest with a fair bit being coincidental like the rise in GDP.

listermint · 01-01-2018 12:41AM

Noel82 wrote: »

Well I was just replying to his question. He asked what specific legislation Trump did for the Army, Police and Va so I posted some examples, there's many more. Economy confidence under Trump isn't coincidence imo, but that's your opinion so fine.

It's in spite of him.

i.e he hasn't done anything to negatively impact the trend that was established. Which is good.

Can you point to a particular boom as in spiked trend attributed to him ?

Noel82 · 01-01-2018 12:41AM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A lot of that list is just weird to be honest with a fair bit being coincidental like the rise in GDP.

Well I was just replying to his question. He asked what specific legislation Trump did for the Army, Police and Va so I posted some examples, there's many more. Economic confidence under Trump isn't coincidence imo, but that's your opinion so fine.

01-01-2018 12:42AM

How is the police force getting military surplus a good thing? It's insane.

Noel82 · 01-01-2018 12:47AM

listermint wrote: »

It's in spite of him.

i.e he hasn't done anything to negatively impact the trend that was established. Which is good.

Can you point to a particular boom as in spiked trend attributed to him ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks-trump/a-year-in-u-s-stock-market-under-trumps-shadow-idUSKBN1D80JP

pdfnews.asp?i=43059c3bf0e37541&u=2017-11-07T100609Z_GFXEDB71PE9HQ_1_RTRGFXG_BASEIMAGE.png

pdfnews.asp?i=43059c3bf0e37541&u=2017-11-07T100609Z_GFXEDB71PE9HQ_1_RTRGFXG_BASEIMAGE.png

"The Dow has closed at a record high more than 70 times since election day 2016 and the S&P 500 has closed at a record on 52 days in 2017 -the fifth-most in any year, but it could challenge the 59 record closes in 1928 for third place or the 62 in 1964 for second, according to S&P Dow Jones Indices data. The year with the most S&P record closing highs is 1995 with 77. There were 53 in 2014. "

http://uk.businessinsider.com/consumer-confidence-umich-october-2017-10?r=US&IR=T

Consumer confidence explodes to a 13-year high

"US consumers haven't been this optimistic about the economy since the start of 2004, according to a survey conducted by the University of Michigan.

The consumer-sentiment index registered a preliminary October reading of 101.1, a monthly report showed Friday.

The data suggest that consumer spending will likely continue to support the economy through at least mid-2018, at which time this economic expansion would become the second-longest since the 19th century. US economic growth in the second quarter rose to a two-year high on stronger consumer and business spending, a late-September report showed. "

listermint · 01-01-2018 12:49AM

I asked for a spike that's an established trend. He has done nothing erroneous to impact the markets that's the point.

He hasn't got anything through which is good.

We will see next year what really happened honeymoon is over .

I guess you know this .

Noel82 · 01-01-2018 12:50AM

listermint wrote: »

I guess you know this .

I don't believe anything coming out of your mouth tbh. You're entrenched with such hatred your judgement cannot be reasoned with. Rent free I suppose.

ancapailldorcha · 01-01-2018 12:52AM

Noel82 wrote: »

I don't believe anything coming out of your mouth tbh. You're entrenched with such hatred your judgement cannot be reasoned with. Rent free I suppose.

Either post in a civil and constructive manner or not at all.

ancapailldorcha · 01-01-2018 12:59AM

Post deleted. Any more sniping will be met with mod action.

eire4 · 01-01-2018 01:08AM

Deleted User wrote: »

How is the police force getting military surplus a good thing? It's insane.

It is for sure a very scary and dangerous trend that seems to be part of the US moving towards a more authoritarian type of government. Certainly when it comes to the police they are already a problem with the massive levels of killings they engage in every year mostly directed towards minorities.

Manic Moran · 01-01-2018 10:01AM

Deleted User wrote: »

How is the police force getting military surplus a good thing? It's insane.

How is denying the cascading of equipment already bought and paid for, thus requiring that the taxpayer pay for duplicate, or at least functionally similar, items to be used instead, in any way sane? I pay enough in taxes already, thank you.

That said, it’s hardly a game-changing policy change to policing technique, strategy or effectiveness. Still waiting to see if anything comes from the opioid declaration, and I can’t think of much else done in that area.

He’s had a few successes, but not many. Even the tax bill has a big asterisk over it due to the ridiculous haste in which it was passed through the system.

On other matters, I saw an advert for this thing on TV tonight. Apparently it’s been on sale since July.
http://gettrumpybear.com

After much googling to verify, apparently it is a real thing, despite how much the TV advert looks like an SNL sketch.

listermint · 01-01-2018 11:41AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

How is denying the cascading of equipment already bought and paid for, thus requiring that the taxpayer pay for duplicate, or at least functionally similar, items to be used instead, in any way sane? I pay enough in taxes already, thank you.

That said, it’s hardly a game-changing policy change to policing technique, strategy or effectiveness. Still waiting to see if anything comes from the opioid declaration, and I can’t think of much else done in that area.

He’s had a few successes, but not many. Even the tax bill has a big asterisk over it due to the ridiculous haste in which it was passed through the system.

On other matters, I saw an advert for this thing on TV tonight. Apparently it’s been on sale since July.
http://gettrumpybear.com

After much googling to verify, apparently it is a real thing, despite how much the TV advert looks like an SNL sketch.

I'd imagine the turning off police forces into militaryesque forces target than you know local police is the problem.
I'm assuming you know that, but given the penchant for all things guns that doesn't bother you

It would however bother the ordinary citizen.

It is in no way a good thing having your police forces resemble an occupying force tax dollars or no tax dollars. It's an utterly ludicrous decision. And it's very core is the arms industry and jobs in the middle America states. Self fulfilling prophecy of losing trust in communities

circadian · 01-01-2018 11:49AM

I remember Alex Jones and Infowars running this story a few years ago. Of course it was part of a Government conspiracy to militarise the police and oppress the population.

I wonder where they stand on this now.

listermint · 01-01-2018 12:02PM

circadian wrote: »

I remember Alex Jones and Infowars running this story a few years ago. Of course it was part of a Government conspiracy to militarise the police and oppress the population.

I wonder where they stand on this now.

Depends on what gets more hits .

Billy86 · 01-01-2018 12:02PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Going to stop you here - show me where. I've heard this from umpteen Trump supporters, quite confusingly I might add, yet not once has anyone shown where when asked to.

Again, show me where.

Noel where did I say this?

PopePalpatine · 01-01-2018 01:11PM

circadian wrote: »

I remember Alex Jones and Infowars running this story a few years ago. Of course it was part of a Government conspiracy to militarise the police and oppress the population.

I wonder where they stand on this now.

Probably something along the lines of, "Kekekekekekek, triggurrd libs, kekekekekek!"

Billy86 · 01-01-2018 01:33PM

Noel82 wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks-trump/a-year-in-u-s-stock-market-under-trumps-shadow-idUSKBN1D80JP

I hate to burst your bubble on this, but you were asked for a spiked trend that has developed under Trump - this is not one.

This however, is a trend under Trump.

The USD is currently the weakest it has been against the Euro since Jan 2nd, 2015 and it is currently a full 13c weaker against the Euro than it was on Jan 3rd, 2016.

Manic Moran · 01-01-2018 06:52PM

listermint wrote: »

I'd imagine the turning off police forces into militaryesque forces target than you know local police is the problem.
I'm assuming you know that, but given the penchant for all things guns that doesn't bother you

It would however bother the ordinary citizen.

It is in no way a good thing having your police forces resemble an occupying force tax dollars or no tax dollars. It's an utterly ludicrous decision. And it's very core is the arms industry and jobs in the middle America states. Self fulfilling prophecy of losing trust in communities

Hang on.

I was in London two weeks ago doing the tourist thing with the wife. The last time I saw that many carbines being used to patrol amongst the local population was when I was in Afghanistan. Even the guards at Horseguards Barracks were being protected by a half-dozen armed police, which seems rather redundant to me. Three days ago on Aungier St, Dublin, I point ou to wife: "Oh look, there's the Army", as a half-dozen lads with AUGs are seen on cash escort duty. In Paris, both police and Army were visible with FAMAS assault rifles. In San Francisco yesterday, I was in Union Square... not a single rifle to be seen anywhere.

And yet the US is the one which is a militaristic occupying force?

I don't say that the European forces are wrong for having their equipment. But every piece of hardware, or at least its analogue, that can be found in a US police force can also be found in European service, from grenade launchers to armoured vehicles. The equipment is not the problem. Focusing on the equipment is entirely missing the problem of the police/citizenry relationship in the US right now.

Tell me how · 01-01-2018 09:00PM

Manic Moran wrote:

I don't say that the European forces are wrong for having their equipment. But every piece of hardware, or at least its analogue, that can be found in a US police force can also be found in European service, from grenade launchers to armoured vehicles. The equipment is not the problem. Focusing on the equipment is entirely missing the problem of the police/citizenry relationship in the US right now.

All the circumstances you described are deterrent scenarios. The problem in the US, with respect to the weaponry and the police is the implementation of it in action and how quickly such circumstances escalate.

To keep it topic relevant, the NRA published a 1 min video a few months ago, link was posted here. It was the most blatant call to arms in defence of the president I've ever seen from a US body.

listermint · 01-01-2018 10:03PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Hang on.

I was in London two weeks ago doing the tourist thing with the wife. The last time I saw that many carbines being used to patrol amongst the local population was when I was in Afghanistan. Even the guards at Horseguards Barracks were being protected by a half-dozen armed police, which seems rather redundant to me. Three days ago on Aungier St, Dublin, I point ou to wife: "Oh look, there's the Army", as a half-dozen lads with AUGs are seen on cash escort duty. In Paris, both police and Army were visible with FAMAS assault rifles. In San Francisco yesterday, I was in Union Square... not a single rifle to be seen anywhere.

And yet the US is the one which is a militaristic occupying force?

I don't say that the European forces are wrong for having their equipment. But every piece of hardware, or at least its analogue, that can be found in a US police force can also be found in European service, from grenade launchers to armoured vehicles. The equipment is not the problem. Focusing on the equipment is entirely missing the problem of the police/citizenry relationship in the US right now.

Wait sorry what , you just compared a cash in transit convey which runs about once a week to the insanely militarised American police departments.

Sorry manic, you are losing it horse.

America has a problem with this , but will never admit that because of your admiration for the hardware.

Manic Moran · 02-01-2018 03:43AM

Tell me how wrote: »

All the circumstances you described are deterrent scenarios. The problem in the US, with respect to the weaponry and the police is the implementation of it in action and how quickly such circumstances escalate.

Well, since we are agreed that the issue is in implementation, then why are you arguing over whether or not the equipment should be in the inventory? What you object to isn't the equipment, it's how often it shows up on the street.

Wait sorry what , you just compared a cash in transit convey which runs about once a week to the insanely militarised American police departments.

The last time I saw a guy in uniform standing around with an assault rifle in San Francisco was when, exactly?

You guys want to make it an issue of 'militarisation' and 'equipment'. Well, we can't get any more 'militarised' than the actual military doing civilian duties with actual military equipment. CIT used to be done with AMLs, for example. We are agreed that the equipment is useful to have at times. Fantastic. How about looking at the problem as being one of the police/citizenry relationship then, which is more of a human issue than an equipment one? If we want to make a difference, how about starting with the 'us and them' mentality many cops have, instead of arguing over who should pay for the grenade launcher or rifle, and how much they should pay?

Captain Obvious · 02-01-2018 08:57AM

Noel82 wrote: »

There's plenty of things he's done that can be seen as positives for his supporters. It all depends on your political ideology. He's done good things for the army, veteran associations and for the Police in general, the economy and stock markets have soured, I believe the last quarter was well over 3% GDP which nobody predicted and consumer confidence and employment are at all time highs. Cutting over regulation at a ratio of 11 to 2 or something, highest African American home ownership in history. The tax cuts as much as people here will hammer it, will have a positive influence on peoples pockets and the economy for the foreseeable future. He's drastically lowered the amount of people entering the country illegally and had something like an 80% increase over the previous year arresting and deporting/jailing gang members.

I could go on but you get the point - To say he's done absolutely nothing is bullshít of the highest order and if you want a honest conversation of his failings I'd be glad to have it, but it's hard to take anything anyone here says seriously be saying things like he's achieved nothing.

He's done more bad than good for his supporters. He made an unprovoked and uninformed assault on transgenders in the military and ordered a ban of serving and future transgender troops. Yeah, he's pumping billions in but that's because he is a warmonger and is lining the pockets of military contractors. If you think soldiers will be better off under Trump you are mistaken, especially when he starts to use them. Let's not forget one of the first operations with Trump as Commander in Chief was a horribly botched raid. Imagine the mess a war will be.

As for veterans, they tried to cut the homeless veteran program, there has been no improvement in veteran medical and psych facilities, and he made a joke of the ceremony for native American veterans.

What police in the states need is not more guns, they need to mend the fractured relationship with the public. Police aren't getting shot because they haven't enough guns and he's done nothing to address the actual issues which will be worse for cops in the long run.

Trump's isolationist policies will come back and haunt him. Well they won't because he'll probably be dead but still. He's given a minor tax break to people at a substantial future cost. He's done everything he can to improve life for companies and their shareholders and this is bound to give a boost to companies shares but it's not a real improvement in the economy. It's not going to improve life for citizens unless they get into the stock market. I guess that's a topic that will only be clearer in the long run though.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

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