Brexit discussion thread III

Bigus · 28-12-2017 08:14PM

If I was a pro Brexiter British national , I'd be glad to have all those transient Irish truxks and traffic off my British roads . Leading to less congestion and pollution , so this could be a small win for Brexit !

flaneur · 28-12-2017 08:59PM

Bear in mind this is two way traffic.

A lot of Irish and multinational retailers are looking at options to integrate into the continental supply chains. So billions of Euro worth of European goods may replace billions of euro of UK originated goods.

Both Irish exporters and European exporters need this infrastructure.

Also bear in mind that creating havoc for Irish trucks in the UK would be creating havoc for EU trucks and the EU would likely respond in kind.

Capt'n Midnight · 28-12-2017 10:10PM

Interesting. Looks like subsidising the North might be politically acceptable down here now. Interesting times. The DUP should be paying attention because offloading NI saves the UK govt billions and lots of hassle.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/28/poll-records-another-jump-in-support-for-irish-unity/

Respondents were asked the following question;

If it cost the Irish government €9 billion per annum for Northern Ireland to unite with the Republic of Ireland, how would you vote in relation to a referendum on a United Ireland?

In favour-60% (+10% since March)

Against-40% (-10% since March)

Sam Russell · 28-12-2017 10:14PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Interesting. Looks like subsidising the North might be politically acceptable down here now. Interesting times. The DUP should be paying attention because offloading NI saves the UK govt billions and lots of hassle.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/28/poll-records-another-jump-in-support-for-irish-unity/

It saves the UK more than the net cost of the EU. Will the Tories start a NIexit now?

steddyeddy · 28-12-2017 10:39PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Interesting. Looks like subsidising the North might be politically acceptable down here now. Interesting times. The DUP should be paying attention because offloading NI saves the UK govt billions and lots of hassle.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/28/poll-records-another-jump-in-support-for-irish-unity/

The Express are reporting it as "the end of the UK". I'd be surprised if this doesn't lead to increased support in the North for a United Ireland.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/897526/brexit-irish-border-poll-united-ireland/amp

flaneur · 29-12-2017 12:20AM

Well The Express does love to stir the pot.

ancapailldorcha · 29-12-2017 12:22AM

flaneur wrote: »

Well The Express does love to stir the pot.

Less of the one-liners please.

embraer170 · 29-12-2017 12:29AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But for time critical stuff like fresh food shipping via the UK is the preferred route, unless the ports get log jammed ,in which case everyone looses as the product isn't worth as much.
https://www.politico.eu/article/cargo-food-production-producers-brexit-burns-irelands-british-bridge-to-eu-markets/

Truck drivers get their rest hours while on the ferry to France. That reduces the difference a little.

joeysoap · 29-12-2017 01:05AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Express are reporting it as "the end of the UK". I'd be surprised if this doesn't lead to increased support in the North for a United Ireland.

I just love the Excess. Lookup ‘Brexit latest’ and check out those headlines (usually in capitals) BRILLIANT, SLAMS, SOARS, GRABS, etc etc when headlining articles on Brexit,IDS, JRM, among others (Davis, Fox)

Priceless, but then they are preaching to the converted .

Junkyard Tom · 29-12-2017 01:25AM

Bigus wrote: »

If I was a pro Brexiter British national , I'd be glad to have all those transient Irish truxks and traffic off my British roads . Leading to less congestion and pollution , so this could be a small win for Brexit !

I think this might be the first tangible Brexit benefit that has been posited in over 22,000 posts.

Congratulations Sir.

Junkyard Tom · 29-12-2017 01:54AM

Just tinkered around with Google maps and it gives just over 13 hrs from Dublin port to Paris by car.

Using https://sea-distances.org/ to calculate times from Rosslare to Cherbourg and google maps on to Paris it returns 12hrs by sea at 25 knots and another 3hrs 45 mins by road to Paris.

So approx 13 hours by the through-Britain route and 16 hours avoiding it. I'm not sure if the cost of the ferry would be offset by the cost of driving through Britain but I don't believe it would be overly disruptive to route away from there.

The less dependent on Britain we become the better for our economic security anyway.

Peregrinus · 29-12-2017 03:13AM

mickmac76 wrote: »

If we end up with a hard border in Ireland due to Brexit would the EU be willing to or required to help us pay for some of the costs of additional border posts between us and the North? After all we got rid of them due to the single market and couldn't foresee ever needing them again and they will be required to protect the integrity of the EU single market if the UK crashes out without a deal. Also could EU funds be requested to improve our ports if additional checking is required for goods coming from or going to the UK?

This is not really relevant. If there is a hard border in Ireland, the cost of providing the customs posts will be a tiny, tiny part of the total economic cost to this country in terms of trade disruption and trade barriers. And that’s before we reckon with the political impact of undermining the Good Friday Agreement, and the downstream economic costs of that.

Enzokk · 29-12-2017 08:41AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think this might be the first tangible Brexit benefit that has been posited in over 22,000 posts.

Congratulations Sir.

Less traffic and blue passports. Those are the two new benefits that Brexit will bring as far as I can see.

Jim2007 · 29-12-2017 09:21AM

Bigus wrote: »

If I was a pro Brexiter British national , I'd be glad to have all those transient Irish truxks and traffic off my British roads . Leading to less congestion and pollution , so this could be a small win for Brexit !

Well yes, but that could have been solved in the same way as we do in Switzerland, put the trucks on the train. At my local train station you can often sees rows of Irish trucks shoot by on trains bound for Italy! The trains are equipped with sleepers and a restaurant - as at least one driver is required to travel with each truck.

Bigus · 29-12-2017 09:59AM

Enzokk wrote: »

Less traffic and blue passports. Those are the two new benefits that Brexit will bring as far as I can see.

I've been stuck in British traffic , and mark my words,any reduction would be a considerable win , for the locals.

Tell me how · 29-12-2017 10:21AM

Bigus wrote:

I've been stuck in British traffic , and mark my words,any reduction would be a considerable win , for the locals.

I don't know how uplifting it would be to realise there's less traffic on the road because the economy has tanked.

Peregrinus · 29-12-2017 10:50AM

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know how uplifting it would be to realise there's less traffic on the road because the economy has tanked.

This. The reduction in traffic because Irish/Continental goods are no longer being transhipped via the UK will be modest compared to the reduction in trucks on the road carrying British goods to the Continent, or Continental goods to British consumers, if the British choose a hard border.

Sam Russell · 29-12-2017 11:03AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

This. The reduction in traffic because Irish/Continental goods are no longer being transhipped via the UK will be modest compared to the reduction in trucks on the road carrying British goods to the Continent, or Continental goods to British consumers, if the British choose a hard border.

Well, following the Red White and Blue Brexit promised by TM, the trucks that used to deliver car parts to the various foreign owned car assembly factories and now do not, will be a welcome reduction in traffic for the locals. Particularly for those workers that used to work at those assembly plants, and now have nothing to do but watch the traffic.

Sometimes wishes tend to backfire - 'Be careful what you wish for' - Old Chinese saying.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-12-2017 11:57AM

Enzokk wrote: »

Less traffic and blue passports. Those are the two new benefits that Brexit will bring as far as I can see.

What has Brexit got to do with blue passports ?

They didn't even have to change the colour in the first place.

Less traffic means less taxes, excise and tolls collected so that's not a win-win.

mickoneill31 · 29-12-2017 12:15PM

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't know how uplifting it would be to realise there's less traffic on the road because the economy has tanked.

Yeah. In the recession a few years ago I was never delayed on the m50 when I was going to work. I don't think we'd ask for the recession back to improve traffic.

Enzokk · 29-12-2017 01:41PM

Bigus wrote: »

I've been stuck in British traffic , and mark my words,any reduction would be a considerable win , for the locals.

Fair enough, but I don't see how traffic is the fault of the EU though. Did the EU legislate that there will be less spending on infrastructure to cause more traffic? I class that problem the same as NHS spending and overcrowding. Sure the influx of people from the EU cause there to be a strain on services (more people will cause that to happen), but the underlying problem is that the UK government made decisions that caused a lot of those problems.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

What has Brexit got to do with blue passports ?

They didn't even have to change the colour in the first place.

Apparently a lot looking at how prominent Brexiteers welcomed the news of a return to the blue passports. We know now the colour was a choice and the had control of that decision from the start. I think that will become apparent that there was control all along, it was a choice of successive governments not to exercise that control because it was for the greater good ("the greater good").

An Ciarraioch · 29-12-2017 02:28PM

Any Bristolian posters?

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-people-846-year-old-984810

Capt'n Midnight · 29-12-2017 04:49PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Any Bristolian posters?

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-people-846-year-old-984810

LOL , but it's already covered by the CTA.

Unlike the fishing rights.
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/belgium-says-1666-royal-charter-grants-fishermen-eternal-rights-english-waters/

Officials from Flanders, the northern, Dutch-speaking half of Belgium, have unearthed a 350-year-old royal charter giving 50 fishermen from Bruges eternal access to English waters. King Charles II signed the “privilege” on October 2, 1666.

An Ciarraioch · 29-12-2017 05:58PM

Meanwhile, May now rivals Putin and Trump for net unpopularity here:

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2017/12/irish-citizens-view.jpg

ArmaniJeanss · 29-12-2017 07:52PM

Lord Adonis quits as Theresa May's infrastructure tsar over Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/29/lord-adonis-quits-as-theresa-may-infrastructure-tsar-over-brexit

Strong words in his resignation letter to PMTM, though he rarely holds back anyway.

The European Union withdrawal bill is the worst legislation of my lifetime. It arrives soon in the House of Lords and I feel duty bound to oppose it relentlessly from the Labour benches.
Brexit is a populist and nationalist spasm worthy of Donald Trump. After the narrow referendum vote, a form of associate membership of the EU might have been attempted without rupturing Britain’s key trading and political alliances. Instead, by allying with Ukip and the Tory hard right to wrench Britain out of the key economic and political institutions of modern Europe, you are pursuing a course fraught with danger.
.....
A responsible government would be leading the British people to stay in Europe while also tackling, with massive vigour, the social and economic problems within Britain which contributed to the Brexit vote. Unfortunately, your policy is the reverse.
The government is hurtling towards the EU’s emergency exit with no credible plan for the future of British trade and European co-operation, all the while ignoring – beyond soundbites and inadequate programmes – the crises of housing, education, the NHS, and social and regional inequality which are undermining the fabric of our nation and feeding a populist surge.

An Ciarraioch · 29-12-2017 09:38PM

160k Irish passports issued to UK residents in 2017 - equally split between NI and GB:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/irish-passport-applications-by-uk-citizens-surge-36444527.html

Capt'n Midnight · 29-12-2017 10:39PM

No surprises on the Blue passport, allow extra travel time.

Blue passports could send UK citizens to back of queue, EU officials say

The EU travel information and authorisation system (Etias) is modeled on the US Esta scheme and could require British travellers to Europe to register in advance and make a small administrative payment.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-12-2017 11:01PM

Turns out the UK was issuing blue passports all along.

https://twitter.com/Ned_Donovan/status/943972220421984258/photo/1

Capt'n Midnight · 30-12-2017 12:11AM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Have we covered Clegg's knighthood?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/26/nick-clegg-to-be-knighted-in-new-year-honours

Looks like I was wrong about Sir Nick

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42504660

Melvyn Bragg gets recognition too
but so do a lot of riff-raff
author Jilly Cooper and TV chef Rick Stein become CBEs
Strictly judge Darcey Bussell made a dame,
Eamonn Holmes,

ancapailldorcha · 30-12-2017 12:55AM

Less of the one liners please.

Brexit discussion thread III

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