Route changes out of Gatwick: Ryanair but not Aer Lingus?

Chris_5339762 · 23-11-2017 06:53PM #1

Wasn't sure whether to put this in the FR24 thread but figured it needs a bit more than that.

Aer Lingus and Ryanair flights typically route from LGW - DUB like this. Depart to the west or the east, fly to the west, over Bristol to Aberystwyth and up to Dublin.

This has been the case ever since I've been flying from Gatwick.

Over the last few weeks on Flightradar, I've noted Aer Lingus flights are still using this routing, but Ryanair flights now go north over London. They take off, gain height, go right over the center of London and route north to Liverpool/Manchester before heading into Dublin from the east.

This isn't just one flight, check out last weeks FR119 and FR143, and FR117 too.

I'm sure there are "operational reasons", or maybe its to do with London airspace reconfigurations... but if both Ryanair and Aer Lingus were doing it, I might believe that. But its ONLY Ryanair that I can see. Its added 10 minutes to the flight time, and probably increased fuel burn. Not the end of the world on either count, but interesting.

Sure, it makes for a more scenic flight but I'm just wondering if anyone knows why this change was made or when it started.

Oh yes... flights from Dublin TO Gatwick are unchanged.

faoiarvok · 23-11-2017 07:51PM

No idea of the reason, but by the looks of the route colour, Ryanair spend more time at high levels, which would be more efficient fuel wise.

View Profile · 23-11-2017 08:25PM

The southern routing over Wales is only allowed on Weekends as it's a military exercise area.
Weekdays we all fly via Manchester and Birmingham area.

markpb · 23-11-2017 08:37PM

Isn't there a military zone with occasional flight restrictions over Wales? Perhaps Ryanair have decided to reroute all flights around it to give a more predictable flight time.

goingnowhere · 23-11-2017 08:58PM

The whole of North Wales, i.e north of a east west line at Aberystwyth is basically an RAF playground unless advised otherwise.

Four corridors

Direct Liverpool (well the old UL975 to ROLEX) then across UK and down the east coast
North Wales coast then turn towards Birmingham
Via Aberystwyth
Via Strumble

No restrictions on any of these, if you close the RAF playground in North Wales you can get a shortcut

Locker10a · 23-11-2017 08:59PM

markpb wrote: »

Isn't there a military zone with occasional flight restrictions over Wales? Perhaps Ryanair have decided to reroute all flights around it to give a more predictable flight time.

There is a military zone there but its 9-5 monday to friday, and even during those times its usually not in use. I doubt pilots would turn down faster more direct routings, however I have a family member who'll know the answer to this question, give me a while and ill let you all know.

View Profile · 23-11-2017 10:06PM

London ATC will often reroute you to Dublin via BADSI then ABLIN whenever the restricted area is inactive. If they don't do that you can request it and save yourself 10 minutes from the original filed routing.

Locker10a · 23-11-2017 11:28PM

So it appears to be the way the flight plan was filed, it’s not as efficient as it could be but for this flights that most likely the plan filed by the airline

afatbollix · 24-11-2017 03:00PM

If you ever end up with a VVIP on your plane you will fly as the crow flys. I had a minister on my flight before and the pilot remarked about it in his talk at the start of the flight. The guy and others got out of a Jag at Heathrow and up the steps to the plane and we moved off.

HTCOne · 24-11-2017 03:34PM

markpb wrote: »

Isn't there a military zone with occasional flight restrictions over Wales? Perhaps Ryanair have decided to reroute all flights around it to give a more predictable flight time.

RAF Aberporth. Very interesting to see the mode C on the fighters when they’re dog fighting. Unreal changes.

Candamir · 24-11-2017 05:11PM

faoiarvok wrote: »

No idea of the reason, but by the looks of the route colour, Ryanair spend more time at high levels, which would be more efficient fuel wise.

That’s probably due to the longer route, also that RYR flight looks like it got a direct clearance for 10, so could stay higher for longer, rather than the 1L arrival that the southern flight got, meaning it had to plan a much earlier descent.

View Profile wrote: »

The southern routing over Wales is only allowed on Weekends as it's a military exercise area.
Weekdays we all fly via Manchester and Birmingham area.

That southern routing looks to be south of the prohibited area. Plenty of flights route that way during RAF playtime.

afatbollix wrote: »

If you ever end up with a VVIP on your plane you will fly as the crow flys. I had a minister on my flight before and the pilot remarked about it in his talk at the start of the flight. The guy and others got out of a Jag at Heathrow and up the steps to the plane and we moved off.

A VIP will often get you a shortcut, but never through a prohibited area. Unfortunately!

Co incidence the answer maybe?

cml387 · 25-11-2017 09:53PM

I believe there is a height restriction out of Gatwick westbound to avoid incoming flights to Heathrow. Possibly that routing allows a quicker climb? I remember an an Aer Lingus flight I took had that routing some years ago.

PinOnTheRight · 26-11-2017 01:29PM

From a quick look, it seems to be Ryanair have ben filing the different route since the AIRAC changes on 9th November which introduced the new arrival routes into Dublin. Perhaps they have a preference for arriving via M145 since it's jet traffic only? The screenshot of the Ryanair route above has received a shortcut, below is what the filed route would have looked like, so it's got a shortcut across the Midlands.
Skyvector EGKK-EIDW
Incidentally easyJet still continue to route LGW-BFS via southern Wales and up over Dublin:)

Negative_G · 26-11-2017 01:40PM

afatbollix wrote: »

If you ever end up with a VVIP on your plane you will fly as the crow flys. I had a minister on my flight before and the pilot remarked about it in his talk at the start of the flight. The guy and others got out of a Jag at Heathrow and up the steps to the plane and we moved off.

No you wont.

STS/HEAD is reserved for heads of state, President or Prime Minister. STS/HEAD automatically grants an aircraft with this status exempt from Air Traffic Flow Management Restrictions.

A minister does not quality for said status and as a result receives no 'special' routings.

A bizjet carrying a head of state may expect shortcuts but it would likely have more to do with operating in the forties than the thirties among the majority of the traffic.

Chris_5339762 · 26-11-2017 03:48PM

PinOnTheRight wrote: »

From a quick look, it seems to be Ryanair have ben filing the different route since the AIRAC changes on 9th November which introduced the new arrival routes into Dublin. Perhaps they have a preference for arriving via M145 since it's jet traffic only? The screenshot of the Ryanair route above has received a shortcut, below is what the filed route would have looked like, so it's got a shortcut across the Midlands.
Skyvector EGKK-EIDW
Incidentally easyJet still continue to route LGW-BFS via southern Wales and up over Dublin:)

Interesting. This seems most likely I reckon just from looking through more of these on Flightradar. I don't have premium so can't look back more than 7 days... would be interesting to see if Ryanair flew the southern route via Wales on say the 8th November, and then moved to the 'northern' route on the 9th!

HTCOne · 26-11-2017 08:08PM

PinOnTheRight wrote: »

From a quick look, it seems to be Ryanair have ben filing the different route since the AIRAC changes on 9th November which introduced the new arrival routes into Dublin. Perhaps they have a preference for arriving via M145 since it's jet traffic only? The screenshot of the Ryanair route above has received a shortcut, below is what the filed route would have looked like, so it's got a shortcut across the Midlands.
Skyvector EGKK-EIDW
Incidentally easyJet still continue to route LGW-BFS via southern Wales and up over Dublin:)

FlyBe do the same on their southwestern UK to Scotland routes, it’s because IAA En-route charges are far cheaper than NATS in the UK, so with fuel still relatively cheap, the airlines save money by flying as much of the route as possible in Irish controlled airspace

afatbollix · 28-12-2017 09:12PM

afatbollix wrote: »

If you ever end up with a VVIP on your plane you will fly as the crow flys. I had a minister on my flight before and the pilot remarked about it in his talk at the start of the flight. The guy and others got out of a Jag at Heathrow and up the steps to the plane and we moved off.

Must of been me as the VIP today as we went straight through Wales today.

Chris_5339762 · 07-02-2018 09:22PM

...and now it seems as of the 28th/29th January, all Ryanair flights from Gatwick to Dublin are using the old routing, the southerly routing, just like Aer Lingus. Back to normal.

I'm mad as I wanted to do the over-London takeoff.

Anyone any further ideas why this whole interesting route adjustment took place? Especially since they've switched back again?

Locker10a · 07-02-2018 11:53PM

It’s just they way the plan a flight plan, Ryanair generally plan the most basic flight plan and London ATC may adjust this on the day to something more efficient all depending on conditions at the given time

08-02-2018 09:51AM

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

...and now it seems as of the 28th/29th January, all Ryanair flights from Gatwick to Dublin are using the old routing, the southerly routing, just like Aer Lingus. Back to normal.

I'm mad as I wanted to do the over-London takeoff.

Anyone any further ideas why this whole interesting route adjustment took place? Especially since they've switched back again?

Welsh MTAs have been open recently later into the evening possibly having an impact on LIPGO arrivals. Flight plans for these routes will be rejected during scheduled opening hours. But can be tactically rerouted if the WMTA close early.

Chris_5339762 · 25-11-2018 08:49PM

Ryanair largely stopped doing this during the summer, going back to the Wales routing but I've noticed it has crept back in over recent weeks. They seem to be doing it especially if 10 is in use in Dublin.

Pointless discussion? Absolutely
Interesting? Absolutely

Route changes out of Gatwick: Ryanair but not Aer Lingus?

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