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Church and School

24567…11

Comments

  • #32
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Parents being asked to mind their own kids...whatever next...

    Parents being asked to pass on their own religious values to their kids instead of getting schools to do it during school time?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #33
    Steviesol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭Steviesol


    I seem to have upset some people


  • #34
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Schools aren't child-minding services .......... the kids aren't being forced to go to Mass and we still have complainers, some people are never happy ffs!


  • #35
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,892 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    My advice is be careful how you deal with this matter with the school and be careful not to make a massive fuss out of it. You don't want to become known as the awkward parent. For yourself or your child.


  • #36
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Steviesol wrote: »
    I don't remember ever discussing Christmas Mass with the school. I did let them know we are a non religious family. Ideally I would like the school to mind them and take care of them until school is over. I don't see why I should have to come and take them out for an hour.

    Because they're your kids!


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  • #37
    farmerwifelet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭farmerwifelet


    If you send your children to a Catholic school then yes you should expect Catholic teaching to happen there and yes it involves trips to the local church. If the school doesn't have the resources to mind your children back at the school during said trips then either let the children go and observe or mind them yourself its that easy.

    I think it is funny that people are shocked that Catholic schools have a Catholic ethos and that this might involve a trip to the church. If I sent my child to a Jewish school then i would presume a trip to a synagogue would probably happen at some stage.


  • #38
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I remember there were about 3 J Witnesses in our school, they stayed in the office with the secretary.

    The COI and Methodist students would attend. The school mass's were ecumenical services, with clergy from their churches participating. It was nice, just a celebration of the school and its students. I wasn't anyone religious at the time but still always enjoyed them.


  • #39
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Steviesol wrote: »
    I don't remember ever discussing Christmas Mass with the school. I did let them know we are a non religious family. Ideally I would like the school to mind them and take care of them until school is over. I don't see why I should have to come and take them out for an hour.
    Sooooooo, you want the school to babysit- your objection seems a lot less valid now.


  • #40
    Estrellita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Estrellita


    Steviesol wrote: »
    I don't remember ever discussing Christmas Mass with the school. I did let them know we are a non religious family. Ideally I would like the school to mind them and take care of them until school is over. I don't see why I should have to come and take them out for an hour.

    The school is not a child minding service. If you've put your child or children into a Catholic school, then Catholic education is part of the curriculum. While non-religious families are welcome to apply for places in a Catholic school, it doesn't mean the school is responsible for minding children that come from families that do not wish to partake in the religious activities.

    If children attend an educate together then they are made aware of other religions, but are asked to make arrangements in their own time to practice their own faith if they have one. This seems to be more in line with your own beliefs, or lack of in this case.

    Your attitude towards the school is very off colour in my view. Your children are not the schools problem during religious classes or practices if you've chosen to enroll them in a school that follows a particular faith.

    I'm not open to the discussion about why religion shouldn't be practiced in schools. The solution to that is more educate together schools as far as I'm concerned. None of which is my problem or concern.

    You never answered another posters question about their school, is it an educate together? Why do you feel you're not responsible for your children during the religious parts of the curriculum?


  • #41
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    I remember there were about 3 J Witnesses in our school, they stayed in the office with the secretary.

    The COI and Methodist students would attend. The school mass's were ecumenical services, with clergy from their churches participating. It was nice, just a celebration of the school and its students. I wasn't anyone religious at the time but still always enjoyed them.
    With child protection laws, you need two adults and in fairness to the secretary in any school, they have enough to be doing, bar baby sitting.


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  • #42
    Candamir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Schools aren't child-minding services .......... the kids aren't being forced to go to Mass and we still have complainers, some people are never happy ffs!

    Schools are educational services however. If only they were allowed to concentrate their resources on education. Ffs.


  • #43
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Candamir wrote: »
    Schools are educational services however. If only they were allowed to concentrate their resources on education. Ffs.
    How do you define education, then?


  • #44
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Candamir wrote: »
    Schools are educational services however. If only they were allowed to concentrate their resources on education. Ffs.
    Schools are not "services."


  • #45
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Candamir wrote: »
    Schools are educational services however. If only they were allowed to concentrate their resources on education. Ffs.

    Catholic schools have a Catholic Ethos with the buildings and/or land owned by the Catholic Church which they donate to the State free of charge yet they allow (and they aren't obliged legally or morally to allow) non-religious children/families enroll in their Catholic school without any obligation whatsoever to participate in anything associated with religion and what do they ask in return?
    For parents to mind their own children when the need arises ...........


  • #46
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Steviesol wrote: »
    Hi,

    Kids are in primary school, not baptised, not religious, the school intend on going to local church next week, and should you not want your kids to go you need as parents to mind them during the mass. I wonder has anyone else experience with this. Surely it is up to the school to mind the kids regardless of their religious beliefs.

    Thanks in advance.

    If you don’t want your child to participate in a school activity then you have to take them away while the activity is ongoing.
    What else would you expect?


  • #47
    Candamir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    Ficheall wrote: »
    How do you define education, then?

    Ah here. I’m not going to start defining education! FWIW, I absolutely think religion should be taught in schools. But all religions, or at least the major world religions, as they are at second level. What goes on st primary school is not religious education in that sense.

    Btw, I’m speaking as a parent who’s kids went to a non denominational school for a time, and who prepared them for first holy communion by taking them to church and Sunday school outside of school time.


  • #48
    Candamir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Schools are not "services."

    I was mirroring the language in the post I quoted.I thought that would be obvious. Sorry I should have pointed that out to make it clearer for you.

    (Although Goal no.3 of the DE&S is to “help those providing education services to continually improve”, so maybe they do consider schools as service providers)


  • #49
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    I should play a drinking game with this thread, usual posters out already


    1 shot, use of word 'indoctrination'

    2 swigs of beer use of words sky fairy

    Down a pint in one gulp, spaghetti monster in the sky


  • #50
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Candamir wrote: »
    Ah here. I’m not going to start defining education! FWIW, I absolutely think religion should be taught in schools. But all religions, or at least the major world religions, as they are at second level. What goes on st primary school is not religious education in that sense.

    Btw, I’m speaking as a parent who’s kids went to a non denominational school for a time, and who prepared them for first holy communion by taking them to church and Sunday school outside of school time.
    There are no non-denom primary schools in Ireland. ET and many Gaelscoileanna are multi-denom.


  • #51
    Candamir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    There are no non-denom primary schools in Ireland. ET and many Gaelscoileanna are multi-denom.

    Yes I’m aware of that. It wasn’t in Ireland. It as in another predominantly Catholic country.


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  • #52
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Steviesol wrote: »
    I seem to have upset some people

    Screen_Shot_2016-04-20_at_4.22.55_PM.0.0.png


  • #53
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,705 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Steviesol wrote: »
    Hi,

    Kids are in primary school, not baptised, not religious, the school intend on going to local church next week, and should you not want your kids to go you need as parents to mind them during the mass. I wonder has anyone else experience with this. Surely it is up to the school to mind the kids regardless of their religious beliefs.

    Thanks in advance.

    A school isn't a childminding service. If you don't want your child to participate in a particular trip then it's up to you to take care of them.

    My daughter goes to a small school and there isnt a bus for field trips. I don't tell the teacher it's up to them to sort out transport for my child. I drive her myself and go on the trip and don't complain about it! It's called taking responsibility for your children


  • #54
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    A school isn't a childminding service. If you don't want your child to participate in a particular trip then it's up to you to take care of them.

    My daughter goes to a small school and there isnt a bus for field trips. I don't tell the teacher it's up to them to sort out transport for my child. I drive her myself and go on the trip and don't complain about it! It's called taking responsibility for your children

    I suppose the op hadn't thought about the issues until now. And in fairness most parents just trey to get through the day first before borrowing worries from the future.

    We know the schools are state funded.
    We know the curriculum is set by the state in the interests of all citizens.
    .... But yet there's a trade off.
    Educate our citizens and we'll provide you with souls.
    Can the citizens choose where to be educated?. Not always.

    So can/should the op expect to have a totally secular education for their child?
    Yes... But as long as the child blocks their ears and averts their gaze during the religious ceremonies they'll get it.
    Does that time spent on religion take away from other subjects?


  • #55
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,635 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    OP, what would you do if you vegetarian, and the school was going on a visit to a dairy farm?

    Tell the kids to not believe the stories about the benefits of drinking cows milk? Or occupy your kids some other way that day yourself?


  • #56
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ficheall wrote: »
    How do you define education, then?

    Education is a lot of things. Preparation for religious ceremonies it is not.

    Even the catholic church considers this faith formation rather than education. And even if the rc church are patrons of a school, the state pays for the education of each child. The state shouldn't be paying for faith formation

    Btw, the RC church are patrons of lots of schools without ever having owned the land or buildings, for example, the new 6 million euro Ennis National school had a 300k contribution from the board of management. So they get given a 6 million euro asset for 300k, and most of that money was fundraised by the community, meanwhile, the old school is being sold for development for an awful lot more than the contribution they made to the cost of the new school

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #57
    Steviesol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭Steviesol


    Okay, I only asked if anyone had any experience with this and schools. To be perfectly honest I am quite scared of the Catholic Church.

    My query was can the school carry on with this business of, "it's the church or nothing". I thought we had moved on from that, and hopefully we will.


  • #58
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Steviesol wrote: »
    Okay, I only asked if anyone had any experience with this and schools. To be perfectly honest I am quite scared of the Catholic Church.

    My query was can the school carry on with this business of, "it's the church or nothing". I thought we had moved on from that, and hopefully we will.

    Who, specifically, do you expect to be available to mind your child?


  • #59
    Steviesol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭Steviesol


    Alice Eager Wiretap wrote: »
    Who, specifically, do you expect to be available to mind your child?


    The School ? That's what they get paid for


  • #60
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Steviesol wrote: »
    The School ? That's what they get paid for

    I ask who specifically? The 'school' is elsewhere and engaged in another activity. Who has the gift of bi-location ?
    They are not paid to give one to one care for your child.


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  • #61
    Steviesol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭Steviesol


    Alice Eager Wiretap wrote: »
    I ask who specifically? The 'school' is elsewhere and engaged in another activity. Who has the gift of bi-location ?
    They are not paid to give one to one care for your child.


    I don't need to know the intircitities as to how the school manage man power.

    I send my kids to school in good faith, might not be their faith but none the less, I feel they should do what they are paid for.


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