Pre Nup?

Spencer Winterbotham · 27-11-2017 07:40PM #1

A friend of mine has recently met a nice woman. Things are moving very very fast. He is quite wealthy (1mil) and she is an unemployed single mother without a pot to piss in.

I don't questions her motivations... she is genuinely lovely and he is lucky to have found her and she he...

There are at an age (mid 30s) where things happen quickly....

He has asked me what I think... I have encouraged him to pursue the romance.

However, he is no fool.... and has begged the question; "What of it all goes tits up"?. Where will he stand financially?

I mentioned a pre-nup. I know they are not formally recognised in Ireland but do carry weight if done properly and look likely to be formally recognised in the future.

If he is going to do this... get married.. move her and the child into his house....... What can he do to protect himself if this all goes wrong for whatever reason?

They have only been together a couple of months... but are smitten.

Eric Cartman · 27-11-2017 08:40PM

we don't recognise pre-nups in Ireland sadly (I would consider this the next most important social change after we changed marriage equality but sadly its not even on the table)

Even if he moves in with her for 5 years or they have kids she could claim dependancy.

Each to their own but if theres even a sniff that she might be in it for the money then your mate really has to end it or his life is going to be torture.

Aspadeaspade · 27-11-2017 10:41PM

They have only been together a couple of months... but are smitten

Money or no money, your friend needs to chill out and take it easy. If this is the real thing it'll still be a passionate affair when they know each other better in another year or two. I'd veer on the side of caution if I was him..

up for anything · 27-11-2017 10:49PM

Why doesn't he ask her that question? He's not that smitten from the sound of it if he's already looking towards a maybe end to the relationship. She'd do better to find someone genuine and not so worried about his possessions. Maybe she will bring something to the relationship that is more important than his 1 mil.

Doltanian · 27-11-2017 10:55PM

Just put the money beyond her reach in the event it goes bad, if shes a single unemployed mother then I wouldn't touch her with a bargepole especially when has plenty money. They are clearly from different social circles and I know those types of women they try to seduce you and I sincerely hope he hasn't fallen in lust rather than love.

Aspadeaspade · 27-11-2017 10:56PM

"She'd do better to find someone genuine and not so worried about his possessions'

Just because the man wants to protect what he's probably worked very hard to achieve doesn't mean he's not genuine.. it's early days and he's seeing a future with her but wants to get all his ducks in a row in case of 'what if.. down the road'.. nothing wrong with that.. Someone can be both genuine and financially savvy you know..

Bambi985 · 27-11-2017 11:40PM

Spencer Winterbotham wrote: »

They have only been together a couple of months... but are smitten.

Why the hell are they talking about marriage and moving in then? That's a wet week relatively speaking and them being in their mid-30s doesn't change that.

If I were you I'd be telling him to take it slowly, get to actually know the woman and down the line, her kid, before thinking about weddings and splitting assets.

njs030 · 27-11-2017 11:55PM

Doltanian wrote: »

Just put the money beyond her reach in the event it goes bad, if shes a single unemployed mother then I wouldn't touch her with a bargepole especially when has plenty money. They are clearly from different social circles and I know those types of women they try to seduce you and I sincerely hope he hasn't fallen in lust rather than love.

What a disgusting generalisation.

If you could tell us please what "those type of women" are?
I thought we'd all moved on from the days of single parenting being a shocking and terrible thing to look down on but it seems not.
For all any of us know the woman could have a masters degree and be between jobs... But she's being looked down on for having a child.

Sometimes I actually despair of people and their judgements.

Op the only people your friend should be discussing this with is his girlfriend and then a solicitor. You really shouldn't be online getting information from people who have no concept of the law here as we don't know the situation.

Hannibal_Smith · 27-11-2017 11:58PM

I'm not getting your personal issue? Your friend is happy, seeing a lovely person. There is no issue only your concern for his money?. Is he worried about where he stands financially? If he is, I hope the girl sees through his shallowness pretty quickly. He would be better off getting legal advice, rather than his friend asking strangers on an internet site.

Pre nups are invalid here. Unless the law has drastically changed recently?

Doltanian · 28-11-2017 12:04AM

notjustsweet wrote: »

What a disgusting generalisation.

If you could tell us please what "those type of women" are?
I thought we'd all moved on from the days of single parenting being a shocking and terrible thing to look down on but it seems not.
For all any of us know the woman could have a masters degree and be between jobs... But she's being looked down on for having a child.

Sometimes I actually despair of people and their judgements.

Op the only people your friend should be discussing this with is his girlfriend and then a solicitor. You really shouldn't be online getting information from people who have no concept of the law here as we don't know the situation.

A woman of clear questionable moral character, she has a kid, why would he want to spend his money to support the offspring of someother loser in life. This woman is unemployed and probably welfare dependent and has very little money, along comes the White Knight to the Rescue and things are moving very fast suddenly. Its fairly obvious from my school of thought what's happening here, but there is a fool born every minute, once marriage happens we all know what will happen bye bye lust and hello divorce.

The entire system is designed to separate a man from his wealth, there needs to be a massive amount of trust together with much better equality income, education and intelligence wise. I am guessing this woman is also probably much younger than the friend and quiet physically good looking also. Tell your mate to think this out very carefully and alot of it depends on how his wealth is positioned, if he is cash wealthy then it makes it alot easier, however if his wealth is in the form of assets like property then he shouldn't go near her. Money can be hidden or transferred, houses or farms can't be so easily.

Spencer Winterbotham · 28-11-2017 12:14AM

OP here....

To be clear... to judge the lady because she is unemployed single mother is wrong. As I said in the OP I do not for one minute question her motivations.... she seems perfectly genuine and I doubt she has any idea of his real financial position...

They are not from different "classes".... they are from the same neighbourhood.

He did indeed work very hard for his money.... and I don't think it is shallow of him to at least spare a though for what the worse case scenario might be... and to see how he can protect himself... Love is blind... but not that blind...

He asked my advice and I am merely trying too see what the views of the people of boards are on the issue.

A emotive issue I see...

njs030 · 28-11-2017 12:37AM

Doltanian wrote: »

A woman of clear questionable moral character, she has a kid, why would he want to spend his money to support the offspring of someother loser in life. This woman is unemployed and probably welfare dependent and has very little money, along comes the White Knight to the Rescue and things are moving very fast suddenly. Its fairly obvious from my school of thought what's happening here, but there is a fool born every minute, once marriage happens we all know what will happen bye bye lust and hello divorce.

The entire system is designed to separate a man from his wealth, there needs to be a massive amount of trust together with much better equality income, education and intelligence wise. I am guessing this woman is also probably much younger than the friend and quiet physically good looking also. Tell your mate to think this out very carefully and alot of it depends on how his wealth is positioned, if he is cash wealthy then it makes it alot easier, however if his wealth is in the form of assets like property then he shouldn't go near her. Money can be hidden or transferred, houses or farms can't be so easily.

Unless you know something no one else does you can't make any comments on her character.

Aspadeaspade · 28-11-2017 12:51AM

To be honest OP, your interest in the whole scenario is a bit odd. I'm curious as to whether you're a male friend perhaps jealous of 'your friend's' love life of late.. or a female friend looking for the last few reactions from the dark ages you just received..

The fact that you pointed out she was a single mother and unemployed in the first place.. a bit like pissing on our backs and telling us its raining? Sounds to me like you got the public stoning you were looking for but you're denying it now. Do you feel better now about your original trail of thought OP? Do you feel validated now? Jog on OP.. Your friend is a grown man.. let him be..

Doltanian · 28-11-2017 01:13AM

If the sexes of the wealthy party was reversed then everyone would advising the woman to stay well clear of a single father with very little money. I know nothing other than what I've read and the woman is most likely brilliant woman but quiet often in romantic situations common-sense goes out the window. But the guy should protect himself, there is another thread about a guy where his wife is treating him like dirt trying to provoke him so she can get him kicked out of his own house, and that guy apparently has very little money.

silverharp · 28-11-2017 09:04AM

One problem I see is the age similarity, if they wanted to have their own kids, hed be pretty much bounced into it in a year or 2. Also I think he would be silly to take on someone who likely will never work. if his "million" is mostly in a dublin house then that doesnt pay the bills.

neonsofa · 28-11-2017 09:13AM

Aspadeaspade wrote: »

To be honest OP, your interest in the whole scenario is a bit odd. I'm curious as to whether you're a male friend perhaps jealous of 'your friend's' love life of late.. or a female friend looking for the last few reactions from the dark ages you just received..

The fact that you pointed out she was a single mother and unemployed in the first place.. a bit like pissing on our backs and telling us its raining? Sounds to me like you got the public stoning you were looking for but you're denying it now. Do you feel better now about your original trail of thought OP? Do you feel validated now? Jog on OP.. Your friend is a grown man.. let him be..

The fact she is a single mother and unemployed does actually matter when money is concerned. She has no substantial income of her own and they will have a dependent who the ops friend may eventually have a financial responsibility for if the move in and marry. Both factors are extremely important in the context of his finances and his home.

Saying this as a single mother btw. Not justifying the weird judgements from some though,I just wouldn't vilify op for raising the issue. I've been the higher earner in relationships- as a single mother of all things!- and while I had nowhere near 1 mil, I did have to seriously think about merging finances and the legal implications etc because when children are involved it is extremely important to think of these things- and at the end of the day,I work my ass off to provide for my child, I am willing to share that with someone i love absolutely, but if it were to mean my child ended up worse should anything go wrong in the relationship, then that's a huge risk.

So i cant blame the guy for thinking about these things,but its a bit soon to be thinking about all this imo. It's not fair to move a child in to a new relationship so fast imo.

neonsofa · 28-11-2017 09:15AM

silverharp wrote: »

One problem I see is the age similarity, if they wanted to have their own kids, hed be pretty much bounced into it in a year or 2. Also I think he would be silly to take on someone who likely will never work. if his "million" is mostly in a dublin house then that doesnt pay the bills.

It doesn't say she is likely to never work

OhHiMark · 28-11-2017 09:19AM

Doltanian wrote: »

A woman of clear questionable moral character, she has a kid, why would he want to spend his money to support the offspring of someother loser in life. This woman is unemployed and probably welfare dependent and has very little money, along comes the White Knight to the Rescue and things are moving very fast suddenly. Its fairly obvious from my school of thought what's happening here, but there is a fool born every minute, once marriage happens we all know what will happen bye bye lust and hello divorce.

The entire system is designed to separate a man from his wealth, there needs to be a massive amount of trust together with much better equality income, education and intelligence wise. I am guessing this woman is also probably much younger than the friend and quiet physically good looking also. Tell your mate to think this out very carefully and alot of it depends on how his wealth is positioned, if he is cash wealthy then it makes it alot easier, however if his wealth is in the form of assets like property then he shouldn't go near her. Money can be hidden or transferred, houses or farms can't be so easily.

Clear questionable moral character because she has had sex at least once in her life. What has happened in your life that made you hate women so much?

dudara · 28-11-2017 09:28AM

Posters - please do not reply to Doltanian's comments any further

@Doltanian - let's leave the judgement at the door

dudara

Hannibal_Smith · 28-11-2017 09:29AM

Spencer Winterbotham wrote: »

OP here....

To be clear... to judge the lady because she is unemployed single mother is wrong. As I said in the OP I do not for one minute question her motivations.... she seems perfectly genuine and I doubt she has any idea of his real financial position...

They are not from different "classes".... they are from the same neighbourhood.

He did indeed work very hard for his money.... and I don't think it is shallow of him to at least spare a though for what the worse case scenario might be... and to see how he can protect himself... Love is blind... but not that blind...

He asked my advice and I am merely trying too see what the views of the people of boards are on the issue.

A emotive issue I see...

It's not an emotive issue it's an outdatedmind set. But you knew that before posting I bet

If he's seeing a girl and in the back of his mind he's thinking 'how do I stop her taking all my money, it is extremely shallow.

So it's not a personal issue then?

....... · 28-11-2017 10:54AM

This post has been deleted.

beefburrito · 28-11-2017 11:13AM

Another poor guy destined for the damp bedsit.
His best bet is to walk away with dignity.
They're clearly not suited, coming from different backgrounds.
I'v yet to see a relationship like this work out.
It'll be his own fault if he goes along with her.

Some of these minxes are very clever and i'v seen them act out the fantasy for a few years,then swoosh...

The carpet's pulled out from under him, he's like a bunny rabbit in headlights.....

Passive aggression build's and build's... silent treatment....tut tut tut is a common one...

Next thing he's being blamed for being a control freak and threatening her.

Eventually he's out of his home, then she's moved in the fit guy from the gym....

And the man's living in the apartment block nicknamed "heartbreak hotel"......

dudara · 28-11-2017 11:19AM

Posters - enough of the generalisations please. The next posts which are generalisations will incur mod action.

Instead, please focus on offering specific, constructive advice.

dudara

pwurple · 28-11-2017 11:31AM

Your friend should possibly consider that their relationship may be unbalanced. I see this causing problems for people sometimes, but not always.
If he/you consider one million to be wealthy in this day and age, then they are probably relatively close in background.

If it's wrapped up in a business, a home, or in a pension fund, then it's not liquid anyway.

Pre-nups are not valid here, and moreover, if they move in together, after a certain period of time they become de facto married anyway.

miamee · 28-11-2017 12:53PM

I think the best advice to your friend would be to slow things down until he is very sure about his feelings for this woman. It's easy to be mad about someone a couple of months into a new relationship but there are many, many steps to cover before he has to worry about pre-nups or divorce and losing money.

Tenigate · 28-11-2017 01:28PM

Op, it really depends on this lady's past.. why is she single in her 30s, & how long did her previous relationships last? She may have decided to leave her relationship to raise a child alone, and that's not something that should be taken lightly.

I've a friend who was in a relationship with a single mother for years (not living with her).. her kids came from a previous relationship which lasted a few years before she kicked out their "deadbeat dad". My friend took her at her word that she hadn't been in a relationship because she was raising kids (now 11-12) but was now ready to get married. Their marriage lasted about 4 months. I know she cleared out his bank account and he also lost a bit on the house they leased, but imagine if the guy owned a property and had a child with that woman? He'd lose his house and pay child support until he was in his 50s.

shesty · 28-11-2017 02:23PM

I think the answer you are looking for is 'pre nups are not valid here' OP.
Outside of that everything else is irrelevant.Other than possibly he might want to think about seeing is there some way he could make his wealth inaccessible to any other half he might have (if that's how he feels).

up for anything · 28-11-2017 03:28PM

I've only just realised it, OP. Your personal issue is not that you are worried for your friend's financial well-being should this so far happy relationship go belly up in the future. It's for yourself. It strikes me that you may well have unresolved feelings for your friend that you haven't admitted to yourself or him and that jealousy is driving this query in the hope that it may drive a wedge between them. Maybe you should take a long look at your motives and get some counselling enabling you to move on.

Bitterness seems to be at the heart of the advice in many of the posts here. If you look in After Hours you'd know that single mothers who don't work are on the pig's back and really what would they want with a man's goods? There are a lot of single mothers out there who are running scared and the last thing they want is to move in with another man opening themselves and their children up to an uncertain situation. Very many are happy to remain independent but have a fulfilling relationship without the need to live in each other's pockets. Perhaps this woman is one of those especially considering that she lives in the same well to do neighbourhood as your friend and therefore hasn't got that all-consuming need to escape the top flat in a tower block where the lifts never work and junkies line the stairs.

Tenigate · 28-11-2017 03:34PM

up for anything wrote: »

I've only just realised it, OP. Your personal issue is not that you are worried for your friend's financial well-being should this so far happy relationship go belly up in the future. It's for yourself. It strikes me that you may well have unresolved feelings for your friend that you haven't admitted to yourself or him and that jealousy is driving this query in the hope that it may drive a wedge between them. Maybe you should take a long look at your motives and get some counselling enabling you to move on.

wut?

up for anything · 28-11-2017 03:38PM

Tenigate wrote: »

wut?

Just thinking through the OP's personal issue.

Neyite · 28-11-2017 04:40PM

I've probably cheese in my fridge older than your friend's relationship.

I'd say to tell them to have their first flush of romance and in about a year to 18 months time if they are still as mad about each other as they are now, that's the time to start thinking about moving in.

Money aside, there's a child involved here. She's probably going to take it slowly anyway so that her child can get used to her mum having a boyfriend before they all start playing happy families.

Pre-nup's are not legally binding here. The best thing for your friend to do is to have a chat with a solicitor and see what his situation would be in all different scenarios, but it probably won't be an issue if they go the distance.

Pre Nup?

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