Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward

givyjoe · 24-11-2017 02:23PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Flashpoint could be DCEU's answer to Days of Future Past and reset the universe.

So another absolutely crap series of films then?!

24-11-2017 02:25PM

givyjoe wrote: »

So another absolutely crap series of films then?!

I mean we've had Logan and Apocalypse in the X-Men franchise. And Logan was an absolute gem of a movie. So 50/50 good/bad isn't that bad.

pjohnson · 24-11-2017 02:29PM

givyjoe wrote: »

So another absolutely crap series of films then?!

Apocalypse may not have been great but Logan is excellent and they were able to completely reboot Deadpool into what he should be. New Mutants is also following a different vein to what came before. But hey I guess the DCEU aint broke so lets keep it the same

24-11-2017 02:30PM

The new incarnation of the X-Men are mostly awful, in fairness.

pjohnson · 24-11-2017 02:31PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I mean we've had Logan and Apocalypse in the X-Men franchise. And Logan was an absolute gem of a movie. So 50/50 good/bad isn't that bad.

Deadpool is part of the reset timeline.

pjohnson · 24-11-2017 02:36PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The new incarnation of the X-Men are mostly awful, in fairness.

Meh I just meant Flashpoint could allow for an inuniverse reset without needing to be a complete binning of everything. The good elements/actors (Cavill, Gadot, Smith, Robbie, Momoa) could remain while the weaker/departing actors (Affleck (if he does want out), Leto, Fukuhara, Cyborg) can be replaced. The whole Zod/Doomsday CGI beast could be redone a la Phoenix saga and so on.

Tylerdurex · 24-11-2017 02:37PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Disagree.

Man of Steel was dull and dreary throughout. Completely emotionless. Clunky dialogue. Uneven tone. And that's before the catastrophically bad second half.

4 utterly terrible films. 1 decent one. People are sick of it, and it's finally showing in the box office. Time to just walk away from the whole thing like many of the people involved want to.

Really hard to see how you can salvage any of the characters going forward. Except for..

They have had one decent movie in Wonder Woman. And considering the state of the rest of the stuff they put out - I'd be skeptical as to whether they will recapture that without the WW1 setting and the winning performance of Chris Pine (though he could yet be in it).

Everyone is trying to build a "cinematic universe" these days. Maybe just try making a decent movie instead?

I disagree lots of people didn't like Man of Steel but at the same time lots of people did like it, Wonder Women whilst good is overrated and the ending was not too unlike man of steels

kerplun k · 24-11-2017 02:50PM

givyjoe wrote: »

So another absolutely crap series of films then?!

It’s worth a shot.
The characters and stories at WB disposal are too good to be ignored, it would be criminal to do nothing with them. A flashpoint/soft reboot could be a good way to start with a clean slate, and keep some of the good (although minor) aspects of what’s already there and do them some justice.

The key here would be to bring in good filmmakers to oversee the projects. With GoT ending soon I think Benioff and Weiss would be perfect for something like this.

givyjoe · 24-11-2017 04:05PM

kerplun k wrote: »

It’s worth a shot.
The characters and stories at WB disposal are too good to be ignored, it would be criminal to do nothing with them. A flashpoint/soft reboot could be a good way to start with a clean slate, and keep some of the good (although minor) aspects of what’s already there and do them some justice.

The key here would be to bring in good filmmakers to oversee the projects. With GoT ending soon I think Benioff and Weiss would be perfect for something like this.

I only meant that Fox's reboot was absolute garbage.

givyjoe · 24-11-2017 04:07PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Apocalypse may not have been great but Logan is excellent and they were able to completely reboot Deadpool into what he should be. New Mutants is also following a different vein to what came before. But hey I guess the DCEU aint broke so lets keep it the same

Logan has absolutely nothing to do with Days of Future past though. Standalone. I simply wouldn't be using Fox's attempt as any kind of template for a reboot.The Fassbender/McEvoy films are p!ss poor.

CramCycle · 24-11-2017 04:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

While I get what you're saying, WW was far superior to Captain America's first movie. They were both "period pieces", but that's where the comparison ends.

I dunno, big bad being a nazi war criminal, over coming their simplistic view of the world to fight the Nazis down. Willing to do what ever it takes in the end, even at the expense of their friends. Big wigs back home behind desks wasting time that could cost them the war etc.

Both were watchable, park your brain at the door bits of entertainment, which was better, is like splitting hairs, both were good for what they were, nothing more.

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean we've had Logan and Apocalypse in the X-Men franchise. And Logan was an absolute gem of a movie. So 50/50 good/bad isn't that bad.

50:50 out of two is not a good run.

24-11-2017 04:30PM

CramCycle wrote: »

I dunno, big bad being a nazi war criminal, over coming their simplistic view of the world to fight the Nazis down. Willing to do what ever it takes in the end, even at the expense of their friends. Big wigs back home behind desks wasting time that could cost them the war etc.

Both were watchable, park your brain at the door bits of entertainment, which was better, is like splitting hairs, both were good for what they were, nothing more.

50:50 out of two is not a good run.

Somebody pointed out that Deadpool takes place in the post-DOFP timeline, so that makes it 2 out of 3. That's pretty damn decent.

Apocalypse wasn't a massively bad movie either. It definitely wasn't Suicide Squad-reaches of bad (edit: Or even in the aforementioned Justice League!). But it just disappointed after how refreshingly good DOFP was. So.. 2 1/2 out of 3.

Drumpot · 24-11-2017 04:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

While I get what you're saying, WW was far superior to Captain America's first movie. They were both "period pieces", but that's where the comparison ends.

The tone and general storytelling of WW was textbook marvel. In terms of story comparisons, WW and Cap lost their loves. Both movies jumped from world war era to modern day in narrative (bringing characters up to speed). Both characters faught their own villains who were using the war to forward their own gains. Both characters lose faith in man on one level, except unlike WW , the captain doesnt abandon man in the whiny tone that the goddess does.

I thought WW would fit in perfectly in marvel universe and that’s why it did so well. Man of steel and BVS were very different movies from anything marvel have done, in tone and story telling. People didn’t like that tone which is fine, but I enjoyed watching the different style and actually enjoyed them. The funny thing is that I find MOS and BVS more enjoyable on rewatch and don’t generally watch any marvel movie too much again.

I just enjoy both franchises for different reasons....

24-11-2017 04:46PM

Drumpot wrote: »

The tone and general storytelling of WW was textbook marvel. In terms of story comparisons, WW and Cap lost their loves. Both movies jumped from world war era to modern day in narrative (bringing characters up to speed). Both characters faught their own villains who were using the war to forward their own gains. Both characters lose faith in man on one level, except unlike WW , the captain doesnt abandon man in the whiny tone that the goddess does.

I thought WW would fit in perfectly in marvel universe and that’s why it did so well. Man of steel and BVS were very different movies from anything marvel have done, in tone and story telling. People didn’t like that tone which is fine, but I enjoyed watching the different style and actually enjoyed them. The funny thing is that I find MOS and BVS more enjoyable on rewatch and don’t generally watch any marvel movie too much again.

I just enjoy both franchises for different reasons....

Not sure - I just found the first CA movie to be extremely dull and slightly boring. Whereas I found WW just far more enjoyable.

However sometimes I wonder whether WW would have received as many accolades had it not been directed by a woman or came right after the turgid Suicide Squad.

Brief_Lives · 24-11-2017 07:23PM

Look, these films should be a, slam dunk for DC... Anyone pretending otherwise is fooling themselves..
some of the best characters ever created, infinite story lines available, and they utterly messed up..

Aside from Burton and Nolan.. The films have been rubbish..
recently the casting of Cavill, Gadot and Mamoa were inspired, but the films have been a dark mess... And cut to pieces from whatever the director originally envisioned...

HandsomeBob · 24-11-2017 07:41PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Flashpoint could be DCEU's answer to Days of Future Past and reset the universe.

I think Flashpoint has to be used cleverly.

All indications suggest Reeves' Batman is going to be used as its own thing separate from the DCEU.

The DCEU can carry on releasing properties that work (I.e. wonder woman) while allowing Reeves to build his own world and directors to take artistic licence with characters such as the Joker.

If it all works out they can use flashpoint to bring it all together.

Gwynplaine · 25-11-2017 01:04AM

Haven't seen this yet. Watched WW last weekend and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Suicide Squad was terrible, and the Joker was just embarrassing. Shockingly bad.

Drumpot · 25-11-2017 09:39AM

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Look, these films should be a, slam dunk for DC... Anyone pretending otherwise is fooling themselves..
some of the best characters ever created, infinite story lines available, and they utterly messed up..

Aside from Burton and Nolan.. The films have been rubbish..
recently the casting of Cavill, Gadot and Mamoa were inspired, but the films have been a dark mess... And cut to pieces from whatever the director originally envisioned...

People presume box office returns equates to gauging how good a movie is which is ridiculous. The more money a movie makes , the more filtered it is to appeal to mass audience. That doesn’t mean it’s not good but a poorly performing movie doesn’t mean it’s objectively bad either. I enjoy Burton, Nolan and Snyder’s Batman’s, you don’t have to pick between them and can annoy each one on its merits.

It’s ironic that people say they want things different yet when you look at Most major movies it’s very similar ones doing well in the pg-13 or lower ranks. This suggest strongly that the real truth is that People inherently enjoy something familiar , that’s why marvel and Star Wars movies do so well. I think it’s possible to enjoy DC and marvel for different reasons.

Justice league was a mess but I think it was partially because DC panicked and tried to marvel it up with the director of the avengers. It doesn’t feel fresh, coherent or that different from marvel. DC also , stupidly, tried to scale down runtime arbitrarily which doesn’t make sense. But this again was trying to squeeze into the marvel template of less equals more.

What I would say is to I would not bring my younger lads to See a 2.5 hour movie , but would be more inclined to bring them to one around the / hour mark and I think this is a major reason marvel stick to that target. Not for story telling or to enhance a movie but to keep it within younger children’s (and some adults) attention spans.

Marvel don’t really tell epic stories (Avengers 1 was closest to one) and I feel BVS felt more epic then anything marvel have done. I thought the theatrical release did the movie a disservice. I’m actually excited about watching it again soon in my new converted attic in the dark! I’ve no excitement about watching marvel movies. I really enjoy them but not as much on repeat viewing.

DC went wrong with justice league by trying to please everybody and in the end pleased nobody. It’s funny all the hate for Snyder because I think he makes wonderful worlds come alive on screen. Watchmen (extended) is one of my favorite movies and possibly the greatest superhero movie brought to the screen.

HandsomeBob · 25-11-2017 10:36AM

Suggestions going around now that Snyder's cut was 3 hours.

IncognitoMan · 25-11-2017 11:06AM

I don't hold out much hope but I'd like to see it on the Blu Ray. It won't though because WB will be too afraid that 1) They will be called out for interfering once again and 2) it probably will confuse audiences going forward with this universe.

We might see it in 10-15 years when this universe is dead.

HandsomeBob · 25-11-2017 11:45AM

IncognitoMan wrote: »

I don't hold out much hope but I'd like to see it on the Blu Ray. It won't though because WB will be too afraid that 1) They will be called out for interfering once again and 2) it probably will confuse audiences going forward with this universe.

We might see it in 10-15 years when this universe is dead.

Aye I also believe the only chance of it seeing the light of day is if they pull the plug on the DCEU.

Genuinely believe we're talking about two different films so that's why there's zero chance as things stand.

HandsomeBob · 25-11-2017 12:07PM

Take a look at -/George\- saw JL (@kryptonscodex): https://twitter.com/kryptonscodex?s=09

This guy has put together some nice clips using Zimmer's/Junkie XL's score.

Sad Professor · 25-11-2017 01:22PM

Did Holkenborg finish scoring the film before he was fired and replaced with Elfman? i.e. is there an full unused score on the shelf that Snyder could use for his own cut?

HandsomeBob · 25-11-2017 01:30PM

I'm not sure but I don't think he did complete it which would be part of the problem should a Snyder cut occur.

Someone made a fair point however elsewhere that Snyder's true vision for JL doesn't exist. Not on film anyway. That died with the reaction to BVS.

artvanderlay · 25-11-2017 05:34PM

I'd like to see a David Fincher directed Batman trilogy, will no CGI! More detective story/noir in the city, rather than intergalactic twaddle. Maybe stick a head in a box for good measure

Even with a Superman movie; keep it earth-based. No other aliens, just human villains trying to take down Superman. Forget Justice League, there should be a team of baddies working together to take down the biggest thorn in their side...Superman! Mix up the baddies too...Superman vs The Joker etc

PerrinV2 · 25-11-2017 10:28PM

artvanderlay wrote: »

I'd like to see a David Fincher directed Batman trilogy, will no CGI! More detective story/noir in the city, rather than intergalactic twaddle. Maybe stick a head in a box for good measure

Even with a Superman movie; keep it earth-based. No other aliens, just human villains trying to take down Superman. Forget Justice League, there should be a team of baddies working together to take down the biggest thorn in their side...Superman! Mix up the baddies too...Superman vs The Joker etc

That hasn't worked out too well for the joker in the past.

MilesMorales1 · 25-11-2017 10:40PM

23915910_793174404198959_4896680311471961546_n.jpg?oh=2486c8f7f475bae10a490126558c3e50&oe=5AA5C5D0

Someone shared this on social media >.<

Blazer · 25-11-2017 10:46PM

^^ jesus ****in christ ...and these fools are the reason studios and companies will continue to churn out junk.

Wedwood · 25-11-2017 11:31PM

Think I'll leave this movie for bluray, if you're begging people to see it you're in trouble! The only people who really seem to want this movie are the comic book fans.

I think another problem casual audiences have with this franchise is the complete mishandling of Superman. Richard Donner's version framed how general audiences want Superman to look and act. Christopher Reeve effectively became Superman. Cavill's version may be closer to the modern comic versions, but general audiences don't want that version, they want Reeve's version.

Another issue, is the general look of the JL characters as a group. They don't look like a top notch group of superheroes, if anything they more resemble the naffness of the Kick-Ass group.

dublinman1990 · 26-11-2017 12:11AM

Elfman is discussing his music for JL.

Justice League **Spoilers from post 980 onward**

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Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward