Coughing Calves

mickey1985 wrote: »

I noticed a bunch of my older calves with a bad cough at the outfarm. I presume its some sort of virus as they have been dossed regularly. When the run to meet me they are all out of breath by the time they join me. What would you dose them with in this instance?

Why would you dose for an infection you think is viral?

If you need to dose for worms but are worried because of a virus being present then avoid levamisole. It kills very quickly. Ivermectin and white doses work more slowly.

Also, levamisole won't cover inhibited Ostertagia either.

grassroot1 wrote: »

It is quite amazing that so many farmers use doses and dont know the active ingredient or what the dose controls.

It surprises me a bit too but then there's a lot farmers have to take in from many sources and the details of dosing can be a bit too much. It's a lot easier if you have the thing explained to you from the start/basics than having to understand it from jumping in halfway along.

In short, read the instructions very carefully (often, it's what is not said rather than what is said you need to note) and be aware of what you need to cover at different times of year.

grassroot1 wrote: »

yes but is it not covered in AG college it was drilled into us!!

Ah yes, but some of us (and some farmers) predate AG College, Grasshopper.

:D:D

This might help but you must look at the active ingredients rather than the name of the dose.

Levamisole is basically all there is in one group, the Yellow doses.

Benzimidazoles are the White doses, usually there's a hint in the name of the active ingredient: fenbendazole, albendazole, oxfendazole.

Macrocyclic lactones are the Clear doses, the ivermectin dynasty. Essentially there's only five members- ivermectin, doramectin, moxidectin, eprinomectin, abamectin. The -ectin at the end does tend to give the game away.

Within a group the properties/activity spectrum tend to be constant (for our purposes here).

Main thing to remember is that levamisole doesn't hit Type II (Inhibited) worms. Not a problem with summer dosing but a requirement for winter dosing. Only the ivermectin group have any persistency (and that varies with the member).

For worms, that's about all there is to it.

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

This looks like a good all rounder a few weeks after housing. Anyone use it before? Iv herd a lot of good things about osmonds products. No price on the page though.


http://www.osmonds.ie/index.php/products/categories/parasite-control/product/158-orafluke

Active ingredients are fenbendazole (Panacur) and rafoxanide (Flukanide). Fenbendazole is fine as a housing wormer. Rafoxanide gets fluke from 8 weeks up.

Is it good?

Well, that depends on what you need it to do and how you use it compared to what it can do.

Worms, fine.

Fluke, how long are animals housed? When were they fluke dosed last and with what? What is your land like? What was the weather like this year? Do you intend to dose again later? These are the things you need to know to decide if it can work for you.

It can be easier to decide on doses if you avoid combinations. A lot of combinations are more commercially motivated than therapeutically sensible. A lot of companies don't have two top products to combine, IMO. A combination of levamisole and zanil, given the day of housing, when you expect to fully combat liver fluke and worms, makes no sense whatsoever.

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Mine are in about 4 weeks. Dosed regularly during the summer with ivermectin (anemic super) I'm going to dung sample and see. Fairly dry land that they were on but a wet year. Usually don't get much ruman fluke here.

Probably go with Trodax in two weeks and a pour on for lice.

Housed 4 weeks and Trodax in 2 more will cover fluke. A white dose or a ivomec type will cover worms. The ivomec would help with lice too. The worm dose could be given straight away.
Rumen fluke are not hit by that regime. It's hard to advise on Rumen fluke, the conventional advice is to cover Liver fluke without considering them and see if you need to dose for them by the response to the other dosing. In other words, if the animals are thriving after dosing then leave it be. This year in areas that have previously had RF I think I'd be dosing for them without waiting.

Who2 wrote: »

I usually give all cows a dose of levafas diamond this time of year. I didn't dung sample but it's the regime I've been using the last few years and seems to keep things right. Am I doing right or wrong? I'd be on dry ground but had a wet back end so was going to stick with it. Cattle in 6 weeks now.

Levafas Diamond contains the levamisole/oxyclozanide combo I'd be unhappy about.

But you say it has been working okay for you over the years. And you're not alone. I presume you've sucklers? I know a suckler man who does the same and gets by very well, thank you. Although it's certainly not a regime I'd recommend to him if asked. It illustrates the complexity of recommending doses and why you nearly always hear 'Ask your own vet' somewhere in a discussion.

There's always an animal element that comes into play, and an environment element, as well as the parasite and dose elements.

Suckler cattle should not be under pressure in the same way dairy stock are. The cows are stronger and should have stronger immune systems. Grazing is often more extensive. Neither the calves nor the cows should suffer as much from parasites as a balance is struck between lower parasite levels and more robust immunity. Basically then, you can get away with less thorough dosing regimes without noticing an effect on performance. That is not to say there would not be a measurable improvement with more intense dosing but that there's no obvious suffering because of the lower intensity. One man I did KT for never doses cows or calves... and you'd not ever know it. He has also had sheep on the farm until recently which could have helped too. His fields have probably very low levels of parasites which his healthy stock are able to cope with. It's a situation he would need to monitor as if any of the founding stones of his situation change then things could be different.

Specifically, dosing cows with Levafas will control Rumen fluke but, at 6 weeks housed will leave fluke aged between 6 weeks to adult incompletely checked.

Note the wording 'incompletely checked' because here's an imponderable....

Closantel, the ingredient in Flukiver, and also part of Closamectin, is stated to control fluke from 6 weeks up (Late Immatures) but data that was presented when it first came out states:
>99% of adult fluke at 12 weeks
>90% of late immatures at 7 weeks
43% of immatures at 5 weeks while stunting the other 57% in size by 44% and egg laying by 36%

So while we only view it as only effective against Late Immatures and Adults, it is still affecting younger fluke. Maybe other doses do similar and the oxyclozanide has effects against a slightly wider age group than normally stated. Just not effective enough for the pharmaceutical companies to be able to make claims for it?


Levamisole will kill active worms but leave the inhibited present to activate and contaminate pastures once they go back out. So the effect depends on how many inhibited worms are present. An incalculable.

However, dung sampling for Liver fluke eggs in, say, 8 weeks would be informative. You could get worm eggs done too but a test once they're about a month out would be more useful.

grassroot1 wrote: »

Well there you are I thought closamectin controlled all stages of liver fluke. Go enough for me so it goes to show you really need to read up about all the products you use.

The advertising for Closamectin stated 'Because of its flukicidal action and stunting effects on surviving flukes, the epidemiological efficacy potential of closantel is comparable to that of triclabendazole.'

For what it's worth...

dodo mommy wrote: »

I dung sampled a few in October and it showed up that rumen fluke was present with no sign of liver fluke at all. So when I was housing them In late October I dosed cows and weanlings with levafas diamond. I intend to dose with closamectin pour on between the Christmas and new year. Does that sound ok or would you have any other advice greysides?

The dung sample would need adult fluke present for there to be eggs in it. There might only have been immatures present at that stage due to timing.

The Closamectin will do the trick as regards tidying everything up. Only thing I see there is that you're delaying dosing for worms for 2 months but the levamisole dose at housing should have it under control anyway.

You need to be wary looking at dung sample results for Ruminal Fluke. Egg laying adults can be present without causing any problems while alternatively the pathogenic larvae could be causing problems with no sign of eggs in the dung. You would need to consider animal performance/clinical signs and previous farm history in deciding to dose.

valtra2 wrote: »

My doseing regime is calf's get done 3 times in summer and autumn for worms then everything is dung sampled 6 weeks after housing and usually calf's wean lings done for fluke and worms around then if burden is bad. Cows only ever done after calfing in spring mostly on turn out. Last few years was lei fast diamond because they showed up rumen fluke. Works for me on mixed land of wet and dry.

If it works, it works.

Comments: Assuming sucker cows with calves. You could try dosing on the results of faecal sampling over the summer. Might save you some hassle and expense. Suckler calves on cows may well not need any dosing until after weaning. I'd be inclined dose calves and weanlings at housing either routinely or on the basis of samples avoiding waiting and losing performance.
Eight or more weeks after housing allows most fluke to have become adult and egg-shedding so that will be a good indicator of requirements. I see no point in waiting to dose cows till going out, as you are losing the chance to have them completely cleaned out over the time of the year when feeding is most expensive.