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Opening churches for the homeless?

  • 23-11-2017 08:59PM
    #1
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Will put it out in the open. I'm an atheist but I would like to understand something.

    There's a mosque in Dublin opening its doors to the homeless during the upcoming cold snap. This is sure to save lives.

    Why isn't the Catholic Church doing the same with its churches? These people are at risk of dying and yet the church does nothing. It's not for want of space or money so why not? Why aren't mass-goers asking their local priest the question?


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Comments

  • #2
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Well most visibly in Dublin you have the outstanding work of the Capuchins, who took in extra homeless during the last hurricane much like the Mosque did.
    It's not for want of space or money so why not?

    Not sure what you makes you say this, you should check out your local church's balance sheets!

    But from a common sense point of view, throwing open the doors to churches without adequate provisions/volunteers etc wouldn't work.
    Why aren't mass-goers asking their local priest the question?

    I'm right behind the idea that local Mass goers should get more involved in charitable stuff and volunteering.


  • #3
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    So nothing about the various Catholic charities or the various gate collections that funnel funds that benefit this and other causes? Then there is the practical problems of insurance etc. Perhaps the OP would care to lobby their local TD to open the Dail to the homeless.


  • #4
    wally79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭wally79


    Sure there are heated office blocks sitting empty every night why not open those up too?


  • #5
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Manach wrote: »
    So nothing about the various Catholic charities or the various gate collections that funnel funds that benefit this and other causes? Then there is the practical problems of insurance etc. Perhaps the OP would care to lobby their local TD to open the Dail to the homeless.

    There is plenty of talk all over the place about the government doing more, but I want to focus on the contribution of the church specifically.

    As an aside, I was stretching one morning outside a church after a long run and there happened to be a homeless person outside the church grounds asking for money. I think there were about a hundred people leaving and not one gave any money at all. Not a single person even acknowledged him. Just walked on by. Why do people give to the plate and not to the person outside?

    wally79 wrote: »
    Sure there are heated office blocks sitting empty every night why not open those up too?

    Not sure that answers my question though? The question is why the Catholic Church does not open its doors for the homeless. Not office blocks, churches.

    As Catholics, why aren't hundreds of people in each parish asking why it's not being done?


  • #6
    wally79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭wally79


    Because it’s not that simple

    You can’t just open a building and let people in

    You need heating, beds, volunteers, insurance

    Why Catholics more so than anyone else?


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  • #7
    enricoh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Maybe the mosque is looking for a bit of good pr.
    It is linked to the Muslim brotherhood in egypt and other mosques have stated its a hotbed of extremism.

    Theres 70 homeless charities on the go at the minute and its in all their interests to keep homelessness on the front page to raise even more funding from government.


  • #8
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    wally79 wrote: »
    Because it’s not that simple

    You can’t just open a building and let people in

    You need heating, beds, volunteers, insurance

    Why Catholics more so than anyone else?

    Volunteers should be easy. Have the priest look for volunteers during service?
    Heating, bedding, insurance? A few thousand maybe for a few night? Again, surely the churchgoers could pull together and raise some money.

    Why Catholics? As the largest religious faction in the country, I would expect them to help the poor and the desperate in a time of need. The Muslim community in Dublin are beginning to step up but the Catholic Church keeps their doors firmly closed.


  • #9
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,530 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    How many churches have planning permission to allow for people to sleep there overnight?

    How many have showers, beds, enough toilets for domestic use?

    As for the churches aren't doing anything: how much of the country's tax-take is paid by Catholics? I'd wager it's around 78% (population proportion) - and that Catholics are paying their fair share of the homeless services the same way that other religious groups are.

    Then look at the people who are working in homeless services. What religion do you think Bro Kevin, Sister Stan, Peter McVerry are? And many of their workers and volunteers?


  • #10
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Volunteers should be easy. Have the priest look for volunteers during service?
    Heating, bedding, insurance? A few thousand maybe for a few night? Again, surely the churchgoers could pull together and raise some money.

    Why Catholics? As the largest religious faction in the country, I would expect them to help the poor and the desperate in a time of need. The Muslim community in Dublin are beginning to step up but the Catholic Church keeps their doors firmly closed.

    It'd be too ambitious. The church today is far far removed from the church of Jesus's ambition. When he said "the poor you will always have amongst you" he didn't apparently mean anything as radical as close up and personally amongst you. A few coppers dropped in a cup from time to time will have to do for the bulk of the church


  • #11
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Volunteers should be easy. Have the priest look for volunteers during service?

    That's not the way things work. In my experience, your average parish priest is already extremely overworked. Any groups, be they charity or general church based, are usually managed by the church members themselves and the priest gives them full backing. It's very unfair to expect them to back, manage and organise every half baked (but well meaning) proposal put forward if there isn't support for it on the ground in a practical way.
    Why Catholics? As the largest religious faction in the country, I would expect them to help the poor and the desperate in a time of need.

    They do. You just seem determined to ignore any of it.


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  • #12
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    A church isn't designed for accomodation. Inadequate toilet facilities; no washrooms; no beds; no food preparation facilities.
    Who will supervise through the night? Provide security?
    The most charitable organisation on this island is the RCC...and yet it isn't doing enough?


  • #13
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,530 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Oh - and as for volunteers: just any old volunteer won't do. They need to be trained in social care in general, and garda vetted. They need to be trained in the specific health and safety procedures for the place.


  • #14
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Oh - and as for volunteers: just any old volunteer won't do. They need to be trained in social care in general, and garda vetted. They need to be trained in the specific health and safety procedures for the place.

    So how come the Muslim community are able to do it? Are they breaking regulations?


  • #15
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Volunteers should be easy. Have the priest look for volunteers during service?
    Heating, bedding, insurance? A few thousand maybe for a few night? Again, surely the churchgoers could pull together and raise some money.

    Why Catholics? As the largest religious faction in the country, I would expect them to help the poor and the desperate in a time of need. The Muslim community in Dublin are beginning to step up but the Catholic Church keeps their doors firmly closed.

    Have you opened your doors to homeless people? I'd hate to think you are encouraging others to do something you aren't willing to do...


  • #16
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Have you opened your doors to homeless people? I'd hate to think you are encouraging others to do something you aren't willing to do...

    Ah yes, judge me without having a clue as to what I have or have not done in my life.


  • #17
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    So how come the Muslim community are able to do it? Are they breaking regulations?

    So if one mosque == the Muslim community, do the huge number of Catholic homeless services, charities and shelters not == the Catholic community?

    What's the line of thinking here?


  • #18
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Ah yes, judge me without having a clue as to what I have or have not done in my life.
    I asked you a question. Deflecting isn't an answer.


  • #19
    Mancomb Seepgood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Mancomb Seepgood


    To be fair,Catholic organisations do an awful amount of work for the homeless.Sr.Stan,the Capuchin Centre,Peter McVerry and Crosscare,for example.Opening churches is problematic because of insurance and the need for qualified and vetted volunteers to be present,among other reasons.Congregations are by and large in decline and ageing (I'm sure there are exceptions).

    As for the Clonskeagh mosque, it's a very well equipped building with a very large congregation.Full praise to them for being able to do what they are doing.

    I'm the first to admit that Catholics and all Christians should question the system and attitudes that lead to people sleeping in the streets,or being sent from B&B to B&B.


  • #20
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,414 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    FutureGuy wrote:
    As an aside, I was stretching one morning outside a church after a long run and there happened to be a homeless person outside the church grounds asking for money. I think there were about a hundred people leaving and not one gave any money at all. Not a single person even acknowledged him. Just walked on by. Why do people give to the plate and not to the person outside?

    A journalist did a documentary on TV not so long ago about homelessness and went under cover. He made the same point you did when he was outside mass and went in to the priest after. The priest gave him money, guess where that money came from...

    There are regular collections in churches in Sundays for worthy causes and people do give generously. But they know that the money will be accounted for, whereas some random person outside might not be genuine (like maybe be a journalist).

    As for the point about using churches, they're simply not suitable, nowhere to sleep and too cold, and as effective as a tent.


  • #21
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    c_man wrote: »
    So if one mosque == the Muslim community, do the huge number of Catholic homeless services, charities and shelters not == the Catholic community?

    What's the line of thinking here?

    They aren't opening up the mosque they are using their events centre

    How many churches have an events centre?


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  • #22
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Stheno wrote: »
    They aren't opening up the mosque they are using their events centre

    How many churches have an events centre?

    No idea, compounded by me not being sure what you mean by events centre either. Is a small "tea" hall with a single toilet an events centre? The kind that host weekly AA, GA, NA etc etc meetings?

    Now that I've answered your question, maybe you can answer mine in that bit you've quoted?


  • #23
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    So how come the Muslim community are able to do it? Are they breaking regulations?
    I suggest you direct your query to the mosque in clonskeagh...or the muslims on the world religions forum

    btw...i assume you've opened your home this week and your office has opened its doors!


  • #24
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    It's not just a case of opening up a church, or any building, and letting people in.

    You need trained staff, people need to be vetted, experienced and qualified to deal with the vulnerable using the service, you need insurance, toilet and shower facilities, heat, food, bedding etc.

    Its not fair to expect a parish priest and volunteers to accept that responsibility.


  • #25
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It's not just a case of opening up a church, or any building, and letting people in.

    You need trained staff, people need to be vetted, experienced and qualified to deal with the vulnerable using the service, you need insurance, toilet and shower facilities, heat, food, bedding etc.

    Its not fair to expect a parish priest and volunteers to accept that responsibility.

    I think people are pulling away from my original question. If a Muslim community can open their doors for the homeless, why can't the Catholic Church?


  • #26
    Panrich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,972 ✭✭✭Panrich


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Have you opened your doors to homeless people? I'd hate to think you are encouraging others to do something you aren't willing to do...

    I don't think that FutureGuy is a registered charity.


  • #27
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Volunteers should be easy. Have the priest look for volunteers during service?
    Heating, bedding, insurance? A few thousand maybe for a few night? Again, surely the churchgoers could pull together and raise some money.

    Why Catholics? As the largest religious faction in the country, I would expect them to help the poor and the desperate in a time of need. The Muslim community in Dublin are beginning to step up but the Catholic Church keeps their doors firmly closed.

    Why not let a few homeless in to your house? The Church is under no obligation to open its doors to the homeless


  • #28
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    I think people are pulling away from my original question. If a Muslim community can open their doors for the homeless, why can't the Catholic Church?

    ONE mosque is not the Muslim comunity. As said earlier , they could do with a bit of good PR


  • #29
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    I'm guessing this is just the usual antagonistic, irritating atheist ready to bash the church at any opportunity. You realize that the church does huge amounts of work for the poor - more, dare I say it, than you. Do you take in homeless people when it's cold?


  • #30
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Panrich wrote: »
    I don't think that FutureGuy is a registered charity.

    So?? Is he barred from taking people in to his house?


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  • #31
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    I think people are pulling away from my original question. If a Muslim community can open their doors for the homeless, why can't the Catholic Church?

    Emm, they do. As pointed out to you again and again.
    Panrich wrote: »
    I don't think that FutureGuy is a registered charity.

    That's fair. As a single individual he couldn't hope to do a fraction of what the Catholic Church do for homeless and those in need. But he, and all of you, could deffo help out by contributing to one of those fantastic Catholic organisations which do so very much - http://www.capuchindaycentre.ie/Capuchin_Day_Centre_2013/Capuchin_Day_Centre_-_Donations.html


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