We’ve had abortions!/We haven't had abortions!

Tigger · 12-11-2017 04:17PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The woman's body to my mind takes precedence much to the dislike of the anti choice brigade. A foetus has no superior rights to the woman. Her body her choice. You can use all the emotive words you wish ie murder/killing execution lessens your argument tbh. My vote when the time comes will firmly side with a woman's choice to her own bodies integrity.

its not superior in the case of loke for like the poster is clear its only on the case of killing the fetus v the hassel of going through the pregnancy
you can give the baby away at the end loads of irish people want to adopt

i personally feel that early ellective and then ffa or dangerous cases should be assured so tgat the rational middle voters push this referrundum over the line

this talk of the ultimat rights of the mother to have elective late terminations makes me feel the teferrundum will fail

12-11-2017 04:26PM

I don't think any women want elective late term ones

MrPudding · 12-11-2017 04:30PM

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

Meh. My mother got pregnant with me when she was 17. She was lucky that the parish priest where she lived was not a complete dick, and that her mother and father did not care about any "shame" she had brought on the family. So, the pregnancy continued and I was born. My biological father, when he found out she was pregnant, offered by mother some tablets which he told her would "make the problem go away." Obviously, she did not take them. But here's the thing. I genuinely wish she had have taken them.

Her pregnancy and my birth ruined her life. She was in grammar school, and was doing very well and had a bright future ahead of her. Instead of that bright future she worked in Woolworths for about 21 year, followed by so other low paying retail job. In her late 50s she trained as a pharmacy dispenser, but still only earned just above minimum wage. Her life has been sh1t, and it is a direct result of having me when she was 18.

I love my life, and I love my kids, I am glad to be alive and my mother is extremely proud of what i have achieved, and she would never, ever say she regretted having me. But I know her life would have been so much better and more fulfilling if she had taken those pills. And I would not have known anything about it, and that does not bother me.

MrP

One eyed Jack · 12-11-2017 05:09PM

GritBiscuit wrote: »

Ah yes, the "not my neighbour/not my neighbourhood" brigade - a whole new weird kind of nimby-ism...hand in hand with those who throw around accusations of "baby murdering" but are happy - even voted for - women to have the right to information and the right to travel. Bizarre. Surely if you consider an abortion so heinous that you think of it as murdering a baby then you should be campaigning vocally and tirelessly for every pregnant woman/girl attempting to source an abortion, irrespective of circumstance, to be arrested on the spot and the keys thrown away...

I've met plenty of women who think like that, and tbh I'm relieved they're not out doing what you imagine they should be doing.

I don't think it's nimbyism at all, I've never met a woman yet who wanted women to have abortions. I've no doubt women who think like that exist, I just haven't had the pleasure. Any woman I've ever talked to about this would prefer that women didn't have to have abortions, they wished that there were alternatives to abortion more than they wished for abortion to be available to women.

And I think that's what they're viewing as an abstract concept - abortion. They don't view women as an abstract concept, quite the opposite in many cases - they imagine other women are just like them, and they imagine those women in their circumstances, not the opposite way around. They imagine those women to be just like them and imagine that those women think exactly the same way as them. It's exactly where the "I wouldn't have one myself, but I wouldn't stop any other women having one" comes from. They recognise already that they have no input into whether or not another woman chooses to have an abortion, and so they wash their hands of any responsibility towards those women who choose to have an abortion.

For them there's no contradiction in choosing to vote against supporting broadening our laws regarding the availability of abortion in this country, and their own personal moral stance on abortion. Their argument is based upon exercising their rights in a democratic republic, where they do have a direct input into the guiding document which governs that democracy - the Irish Constitution.

It's not nimbyism, it's nothing personal against any other woman, it's democracy, and exercising their right to vote, and their right to freedom of expression. I don't agree with them, but I don't feel any obligation to go shouting my disagreement from the rooftops or on social media either. I prefer to be discreet about it, because just like it's much harder to paint women who have had abortions as less than human when we know them personally, it's also just as hard to paint anyone with whom I disagree with as less than human, when I know them personally.

Carry · 12-11-2017 05:16PM

My mother used to say: when the cat is out of the house, the mice party ... (only joking).

It’s sad that some people try to hijack this thread despite several appeals to keep it free of ideological quarrels.

I try to keep up with the discussion, without responding to every post

blarrah: I wanted to thank you for your contribution about your harrowing experience until I got to the end of your tale where it turned into a rant and insults of other people.
I do understand that you have regrets, but I think you should start to forgive yourself. It’s eating you up obviously and you turn your assumed self-hatred towards others.
It’s awful to have an abortion so late. I couldn’t do that. But I think that wouldn’t have happened if abortion were available in Ireland.
I had to smile though at your suggestion that abortion or not is (I paraphrase) “a joint decision between man, woman and child”. I just tried to imagine how this would work ...

Ave sodalis: Regretting to have children is indeed not uncommon. I’ve read recently an article about such women who wouldn’t dare to say it out loud or publicly, understandably. That doesn’t mean they don’t love their kids, they just think about their own lives that could have been without children.
It’s still the woman’s job to mainly raise the children, at least in a traditional set-up, so they are the ones who actually have to deal with all the troubles children can cause. Daddy comes home from work and plays a little and tells bedtime stories. They are not worn out like mothers. I’m sure there are more hands-on daddies today than in my generation, well, I’m not sure, I just hope.

permabear: I’m glad you are happy with your kids and it’s recommendable that you obviously looked after your first child on your own.
But you impregnated your partner when she was 15? Was she even legal? And than again at 19? I’d call that irresponsible. I’d wonder how your partner sees it.

solodeogloria: “Glory to god alone” would your name mean if your Latin were correct (soli deo gloria), but o and i are neighbours on the keyboard so it could be a typo.
I don’t even know where to start with you, so I don’t start at all. Only that much: You are completely off topic and apparently completely without compassion, empathy and understanding.

Deleted User: You think something is off about talking openly about personal experiences with abortion? Hmm.
Sometimes reality can be very uncomfortable, but to keep quiet about whatever might be the case is often very uncomfortable for the affected and it’s certainly unhealthy. Try to find out what makes you really uncomfortable about reading about all this. I for one am interested.

Tigger · 12-11-2017 05:26PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't think any women want elective late term ones

ok so they shouldnt be allowed except in ffa cases and when the mothers lofe is at risk
so i feel that early elective aborting should be allowed in the first trimester
this might pass in my opinion
however the yes side will put peole off if they continue to say it should be always up tonthe woman

ceadaoin. · 12-11-2017 05:45PM

Tigger wrote: »

ok so they shouldnt be allowed except in ffa cases and when the mothers lofe is at risk
so i feel that early elective aborting should be allowed in the first trimester
this might pass in my opinion
however the yes side will put peole off if they continue to say it should be always up tonthe woman

You continue to talk about this despite numerous posters stating that

A- it's highly unlikely that there won't be a limit imposed up to which point elective terminations are allowed

B- even if there is no limit, women simply do not choose to terminate late stage pregnancies for non medical reasons, so the situation you keep describing (a woman weeks away from giving birth deciding on a whim that she no longer wants a child) will rarely, if ever, happen

GritBiscuit · 12-11-2017 06:01PM

One eyed Jack wrote:

I've met plenty of women who think like that, and tbh I'm relieved they're not out doing what you imagine they should be doing.
....

Of course not. Imagine seeing exactly what enforcing their views absolutely on others would actually entail, perrish the thought. Far better that we hush up & just turn a blind eye to these fallen women and heartless parents sneaking into the UK and just sit back in our ivory towers pointing and judging.

It is very much a perverse nimbyism. Provide advice and information, organise treatments and supply post abortion care but as long as the abortions themselves aren't happening on Irish soil in any but the most obvious and extreme cases and even that isn't sufficient to save maternal lives...it's nothing a decent bit of carpet sweeping can't justify. Without a doubt if there hadn't been a geographically close neighbour with complex political ties to Ireland, this issue would have had to have been legislated for a long time ago.

The cowardly hypocrisy that this country has been/is wrapped up in is shameful...I'm delighted the tide is turning and turning at a rate a knots inconceivable even a couple of decades ago. I've no doubt giving a voice to a side traditionally carpet swept pre-referenda (whether in traditional or on social media) has made a difference to modernising the Constitution for Irish people, in Ireland...which is very much a positive imo.

eviltwin · 12-11-2017 06:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I am pro choice because I believe that nobody has the right to tell another person what to do with their body, and for a few other reasons. However I'm torn about people talking openly about their abortion experiences.
The reason for this conflict is because there can be an element of showiness or "look at me" about it. Why the need to share? It is a deeply personal choice and one which I can't imagine is taken lightly. It's not a badge of honour for some people to wear.

This country loves to keep secrets doesn't it. Don't tell people you were sexually abused, that you are gay, that you had an abortion......

I don't talk about my abortion to show off, I'd never mention it outside of this debate. I am open because I'm sick of hearing people debate this without hearing the voice of those actually affected. I'm sick hearing people talk about women who have abortions as though they are a certain type of person. I tell my story because I can, I know the people around me love and support me and respect my choice. No one who matters will judge. And I've a thick enough skin that random comments from unknown people on the internet about what a terrible person I am are no bother to me. There are a lot of women going to be exposed to the murderer and child killer stuff coming down the line who won't feel able to speak out about it.

I don't talk about it to make people uncomfortable but it's an uncomfortable truth that three thousand women travel to the UK each year and others have unsafe abortions here. We finally have a chance to vote so hell yeah I am going to talk about it. You can be damn sure the anti choice crowd will have plenty of stuff to say about us.

Tigger · 12-11-2017 06:25PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You continue to talk about this despite numerous posters stating that

A- it's highly unlikely that there won't be a limit imposed up to which point elective terminations are allowed

B- even if there is no limit, women simply do not choose to terminate late stage pregnancies for non medical reasons, so the situation you keep describing (a woman weeks away from giving birth deciding on a whim that she no longer wants a child) will rarely, if ever, happen

a- if itvdosnt happen then theres no need for it to happen
b- second trimester abortions are not unherd of and early terminations are defined as first trimester
3- the no side will tell the undecided that the yes side want late stage abortions so its better for it all to be clear
iv- down syndrome fetuese are often aborted very late which is another issue

One eyed Jack · 12-11-2017 06:32PM

GritBiscuit wrote: »

Of course not. Imagine seeing exactly what enforcing their views absolutely on others would actually entail, perrish the thought. Far better that we hush up & just turn a blind eye to these fallen women and heartless parents sneaking into the UK and just sit back in our ivory towers pointing and judging.

Ivory towers me hole :pac: The women in my experience who feel most comfortable in condemning a woman who would even contemplate having an abortion, either live in caravans on halting sites, or in shìtty, run-down estates, where the news of one of their neighbours daughters being 'up the duff' is the highlight of their daily gossip. Far from turning a blind eye to it as you assume, they become particularly invested in the potential outcomes of other people's lives.

It is very much a perverse nimbyism. Provide advice and information, organise treatments and supply post abortion care but as long as the abortions themselves aren't happening on Irish soil in any but the most obvious and extreme cases and even that isn't sufficient to save maternal lives...it's nothing a decent bit of carpet sweeping can't justify. Without a doubt if there hadn't been a geographically close neighbour with complex political ties to Ireland, this issue would have had to have been legislated for a long time ago.

We already did legislate for it, and with the full co-operation of our geographically closest neighbours with whom we formed complex political ties which enabled Irish society to sweep 'the undesirables' in Irish society at the time under the carpet and into the poorhouses, which of course as we are all familiar with now became the laundries and the mother and baby homes. It was justified then as keeping social order and morals intact, and women were threatened by their families with being sent to these places if they brought shame upon the family. It's just as much in evidence today as it was then, which is why this bit -

The cowardly hypocrisy that this country has been/is wrapped up in is shameful...I'm delighted the tide is turning and turning at a rate a knots inconceivable even a couple of decades ago. I've no doubt giving a voice to a side traditionally carpet swept pre-referenda (whether in traditional or on social media) has made a difference to modernising the Constitution for Irish people, in Ireland...which is very much a positive imo.

Is the stuff of pure fantasy.

GritBiscuit · 12-11-2017 06:38PM

One eyed Jack wrote:

Ivory towers me hole The women in my experience who feel most comfortable in condemning a woman who would even contemplate having an abortion, either live in caravans on halting sites, or in shÃ¬tty, run-down estates, where the news of one of their neighbours daughters being 'up the duff' is the highlight of their daily gossip.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge on that....

volchitsa · 12-11-2017 07:08PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ivory towers me hole :pac: The women in my experience who feel most comfortable in condemning a woman who would even contemplate having an abortion, either live in caravans on halting sites, or in shìtty, run-down estates, where the news of one of their neighbours daughters being 'up the duff' is the highlight of their daily gossip. Far from turning a blind eye to it as you assume, they become particularly invested in the potential outcomes of other people's lives.

Nasty stuff.

It's interesting that you managed sweeping hateful generalizations concerning just about all the women of Ireland in one go. The "lower orders" are only interested in gossip and the middle class ones are completely hypocritical.

We already did legislate for it, and with the full co-operation of our geographically closest neighbours with whom we formed complex political ties which enabled Irish society to sweep 'the undesirables' in Irish society at the time under the carpet and into the poorhouses, which of course as we are all familiar with now became the laundries and the mother and baby homes. It was justified then as keeping social order and morals intact, and women were threatened by their families with being sent to these places if they brought shame upon the family. It's just as much in evidence today as it was then, which is why this bit -

Is the stuff of pure fantasy.

I don't think the British got much of a choice in the matter, did they?

You say they cooperated fully : do you have any evidence of that?

My understanding is that as fellow members of the European community, they didn't have much choice in the matter, and simply took it all very graciously, rather than actively cooperating. I'm fairly sure they weren't even consulted.

You think if they'd said they weren't happy about it that the Irish government might not have gone ahead?

One eyed Jack · 12-11-2017 07:36PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Nasty stuff.

It's interesting that you managed sweeping hateful generalizations concerning just about all the women of Ireland in one go. The "lower orders" are only interested in gossip and the middle class ones are completely hypocritical.

I didn't make any generalisations, let alone hateful ones? I specifically said it was in my experience, and I certainly don't hate them for their opinions and attitudes because I completely understand where they're coming from. I also don't imagine that gossip and hypocrisy are peculiar to any particular class in society. Again though that observation would be solely based upon my own experience, which is what Carry maintains she wanted this thread to be about - other people sharing their experiences of abortion, unless of course it was actually intended to be limited to promoting a particular narrative?

I don't think the British got much of a choice in the matter, did they?

You say they cooperated fully : do you have any evidence of that?

My understanding is that as fellow members of the European community, they didn't have much choice in the matter, and simply took it all very graciously, rather than actively cooperating. I'm fairly sure they weren't even consulted.

You think if they'd said they weren't happy about it that the Irish government might not have gone ahead?

You'll notice I referenced the poorhouses? That's nearly two centuries before the formation of the EEC.

Irish Poor Laws were what I was referring to -

The Irish Poor Laws were a series of Acts of Parliament intended to address social instability due to widespread and persistent poverty in Ireland. While some legislation had been introduced by the pre-Union Parliament of Ireland prior to the Act of Union, the most radical and comprehensive attempt was the Irish act of 1838, closely modelled on the English Poor Law of 1834. In England, this replaced Elizabethan era legislation which had no equivalent in Ireland.

Odhinn · 12-11-2017 08:00PM

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good afternoon!

No - over the death of the child that results from said decision. There are two bodies involved. This is what the pro-choice side of this argument never wants to engage with.

If it were merely a decision about a woman's body I'd happily have given way a long time ago on this issue.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

There's no circumstance where a woman should be forced to go through with a pregnancy they don't want, both for her sake, the sake of the offspring and society in general.

volchitsa · 12-11-2017 08:03PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't make any generalisations, let alone hateful ones? I specifically said it was in my experience, and I certainly don't hate them for their opinions and attitudes because I completely understand where they're coming from. I also don't imagine that gossip and hypocrisy are peculiar to any particular class in society. Again though that observation would be solely based upon my own experience, which is what Carry maintains she wanted this thread to be about - other people sharing their experiences of abortion, unless of course it was actually intended to be limited to promoting a particular narrative?

It's not your experience of abortion though is it?
It's your beliefs about different kinds of women and their alleged reactions to other women's lives. It wasn't even just about abortion apparently.

Unless you've carried out actual research, it's a few sweeping generalizations based entirely on social origins.

Yeah it's pretty disgusting TBH.

You'll notice I referenced the poorhouses? That's nearly two centuries before the formation of the EEC.

Irish Poor Laws were what I was referring to -

The Irish Poor Laws were a series of Acts of Parliament intended to address social instability due to widespread and persistent poverty in Ireland. While some legislation had been introduced by the pre-Union Parliament of Ireland prior to the Act of Union, the most radical and comprehensive attempt was the Irish act of 1838, closely modelled on the English Poor Law of 1834. In England, this replaced Elizabethan era legislation which had no equivalent in Ireland.

Well no, what you said was this :
"We already did legislate for it, and with the full co-operation of our geographically closest neighbours"

The rest was some rant about historical links and poor houses, but since "we" didn't legislate for abortion in 1861 (the British did that) I took, and still take, your point to be about 1983 and subsequently, when the British took up the slack for our refusal to deal with the question on our own territory.

Outlaw Pete · 12-11-2017 08:08PM

Graham wrote: »

While I absolutely respect your right to hold such an opinion, I don't agree that you (or anyone else) should be able to force your opinion/decisions on anybody else.

But yet here are doing just that.....

Or what else would you call ending the life of a human being who is getting no say in the matter? Fair enough, they aren't aware their life is being ended, that's true, but neither would a newborn. Should we make it legal for women to have "the choice" to be legally able to end their lives too?

spookwoman · 12-11-2017 08:12PM

Mr.H wrote: »

I have no problem with abortion. It should be an option. What I don't like is the fact that some people can actually say "I had two abortion and I know someone who had three". I mean FFS that's ridiculous. You realise this is not a haircut but a very invasive procedure?

I'd like to think I am pro choice but stories like that worry me about the maturity of some.

Abortion needs to be available but I don't think it should be on tap. People need to take some responsibility. Don't have unprotected sex and you won't get pregnant.

Obviously I am not talking about extreme cases and this is the reason I said it needs to be available.

Should it be there for extreme cases? Yes

@ no

Agree it can be difficult to say when to stop but someone who has had multiple abortions as a contraceptive I'd be asking why. I know of one lady in the UK who has had a number of abortions. The reasons, she already has children, she was 40 odd and married to an abusive bast*rd who wasn't fond of the rubber.
The others that don't take precautions and you have to wonder are the fit to be parents, not only are they getting pregnant often but there is a high risk of transmitting std's that could interfere with someones chance of wanting to start a family. There is also the increased chance of HIV/AIDS.
We all know no contraceptive is 100%, we know not everyone wants to have children and getting sterilized during child bearing years is next to impossible to get done.
In this day and age when there are too many people on this planet, not enough resources, not enough jobs, money, medical care maybe abortion on demand is a good idea. If your cannot afford a kid and not in a long term relationship you really shouldn't be having them and you cannot expect the state pay for your mistakes.
I have a lot more respect for someone who has an abortion because they don't want to have a kid, can't afford it, etc than listen to someone who got knocked up on a one night stand or got pregnant while in a 3 month relationship complain about the amount they get from state benifits.

One eyed Jack · 12-11-2017 08:23PM

volchitsa wrote: »

It's not your experience of abortion though is it?
It's your beliefs about different kinds of women and their alleged reactions to other women's lives. It wasn't even just about abortion apparently.

Unless you've carried out actual research, it's a few sweeping generalizations based entirely on social origins.

Yeah it's pretty disgusting TBH.

I already said it is, and you saying it's not, or your belief that what I said is disgusting, isn't going to have any impact on reality whatsoever.

Well no, what you said was this :
"We already did legislate for it, and with the full co-operation of our geographically closest neighbours"

The rest was some rant about historical links and poor houses, but since "we" didn't legislate for abortion in 1861 (the British did that) I took, and still take, your point to be about 1983 and subsequently, when the British took up the slack for our refusal to deal with the question on our own territory.

Well of course you do, because that suits your beliefs a hell of a lot better than reality. You're completely free to do that of course, as you are completely free to spin anyone's experiences any particular way you want in order to portray them however you want. The joy of spin renders anything which contradicts your experiences invalid, which makes a discussion amongst people discussing their experiences utterly useless, because there's no point in discussing anything when people can just reject other people's experiences out of hand solely on the basis that they don't like what they're hearing.

It's entirely hypocritical then to claim that you want people to talk about their experiences of abortion and claim that it is the perceived social stigma against abortion is the reason why women don't share their experiences of abortion when you yourself are perpetuating that same stigma because they're not the right type of person you want to hear from, or they don't share the same opinions regarding abortion and women who contemplate abortion as you do. I've done plenty of research btw, even exploring and examining evidence which made me uncomfortable, the kind of evidence you would dismiss as disgusting, because it didn't fit neatly with your already prejudiced biases.

volchitsa · 12-11-2017 08:24PM

Mr.H wrote: »

I have no problem with abortion. It should be an option. What I don't like is the fact that some people can actually say "I had two abortion and I know someone who had three". I mean FFS that's ridiculous. You realise this is not a haircut but a very invasive procedure?

I'd like to think I am pro choice but stories like that worry me about the maturity of some.

Abortion needs to be available but I don't think it should be on tap. People need to take some responsibility. Don't have unprotected sex and you won't get pregnant.

Obviously I am not talking about extreme cases and this is the reason I said it needs to be available.

Should it be there for extreme cases? Yes

@ no

An abortion is a lot more bothersome and unpleasant than using contraception, even in the UK. At best it's like a miscarriage. Nobody would choose to do that every month instead of using contraception. I genuinely think there are always going to be reasons, possibly very sad reasons, for women who have multiple abortions.

volchitsa · 12-11-2017 08:26PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I already said it is, and you saying it's not, or your belief that what I said is disgusting, isn't going to have any impact on reality whatsoever.

Well of course you do, because that suits your beliefs a hell of a lot better than reality. You're completely free to do that of course, as you are completely free to spin anyone's experiences any particular way you want in order to portray them however you want. The joy of spin renders anything which contradicts your experiences invalid, which makes a discussion amongst people discussing their experiences utterly useless, because there's no point in discussing anything when people can just reject other people's experiences out of hand solely on the basis that they don't like what they're hearing.

It's entirely hypocritical then to claim that you want people to talk about their experiences of abortion and claim that it is the perceived social stigma against abortion is the reason why women don't share their experiences of abortion when you yourself are perpetuating that same stigma because they're not the right type of person you want to hear from, or they don't share the same opinions regarding abortion and women who contemplate abortion as you do. I've done plenty of research btw, even exploring and examining evidence which made me uncomfortable, the kind of evidence you would dismiss as disgusting, because it didn't fit neatly with your already prejudiced biases.

I've no idea what you're talking about here, I'm simply going by what you said.

When you said the British collaborated fully with our legislating for abortion, could you explain what exactly you mean?

Because I genuinely have no idea what poorhouses have to do with our abortion legislation.

One eyed Jack · 12-11-2017 08:38PM

volchitsa wrote: »

I've no idea what you're talking about here, I'm simply going by what you said.

When you said the British collaborated fully with our legislating for abortion, could you explain what exactly you mean?

Because I genuinely have no idea what poorhouses have to do with our abortion legislation.

The English rather, collaborated fully with our legislation regarding abortion, and you're fully aware of this fact because you referenced it yourself, and the background to how that came about originated with the poorhouses and the persistent problem of 'the undesirables' in Irish society as they were known as at the time.

One of the main reasons given by women for having an abortion as I'm sure you're also undoubtedly aware of is socioeconomic reasons, and that's the underlying problem that needs to be addressed, because it is fuelled by the hypocrisy that correlates with the fact that of the percentages of women who have abortions, they are also more likely to be against the idea of ever having an abortion in the first place.

Like I said, I don't condemn them for their hypocrisy, as I completely understand where they're coming from.

Odhinn · 12-11-2017 08:42PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The English rather, collaborated fully with our legislation regarding abortion, and you're fully aware of this fact because you referenced it yourself, and the background to how that came about originated with the poorhouses and the persistent problem of 'the undesirables' in Irish society as they were known as at the time.

.........

I don't get this at all.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 12-11-2017 08:49PM

Mod Note: Ok folks,there are other threads here to discuss the pros/cons, rights/wrongs of abortions.

Use them for that type of discussion! Not this thread!

This thread is for discussion by people who have experiences of abortion and the aim is to keep it at that.

Thanks in advance,

Buford T. Justice

Wombatman · 12-11-2017 09:17PM

Going back to the OP.

Carry wrote: »

Long story short: I’m wondering if any woman in Ireland or more precisely here on boards would confess that she had an abortion. I’m not nosy, I still think that the more women say it out loud the more their predicament will be heard. And every abortion is a predicament that all those moralistic foetus-savers will never understand.

Strange how you use the word "confess" like some crime has been committed or there is something to be guilty of.

Any woman considering an abortion is faced with a difficult choice and both paths will be obviously unappealing. Women often require courage, strength, determination, resourcefulness and inelegance to plan, have, recover from and deal with an abortion. I'm not sure applauded or admired are the right words, but surly these good qualities should be recognised or at least appreciated when abortion is chosen.

I believe society should not have a say in the welfare of a fetus that is wholly dependent on it's mother. While the fetus cannot survive without the mother, the decision should be the mothers alone.

While on the matter of semantics, there is no such thing as an "unborn child". It is a loaded contradiction in terms.

One eyed Jack · 12-11-2017 09:33PM

Wombatman wrote: »

Going back to the OP.

...

Strange how you use the word "confess" like some crime has been committed or there is something to be guilty of.

In the context that abortion was a criminal act in Germany at the time of the incident Carry is referring to -

374 prominent and ordinary women confessed publicly that they had an abortion at a time when it was still illegal in Germany.

There's nothing strange about it, in much the same way as an elective abortion is unlawful here, and to admit to having had one in this country is risking legal consequences and social ostracisation.

Carry · 12-11-2017 09:51PM

Wombatman wrote: »

Going back to the OP.

Strange how you use the word "confess" like some crime has been committed or there is something to be guilty of.
.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In the context that abortion was a criminal act in Germany at the time of the incident Carry is referring to -

(...)

There's nothing strange about it, in much the same way as an elective abortion is unlawful here, and to admit to having had one in this country is risking legal consequences and social ostracisation.

Thanks, One eyed Jack, couldn't have put it better.

Though "confess" is indeed a bit strong. English is not my first language so sometimes my choice of words might come off as a bit strange.
"Admit" is much better, but I leave it as it is in the first post.

Hotblack Desiato · 12-11-2017 10:11PM

solodeogloria wrote: »

I don't think anyone has the right to force death on another. That's what this issue is about when push comes to shove. If it wasn't I'd happily give way on it, but it is a bridge too far.

There are plenty of other threads where you can freely spout your sanctimonious god-bothering. This thread was supposed to be for people (female and male) with actual experience of abortion to relate their experiences, whether good or bad. But you and your chums just couldn't resist getting the old judgmental crapola in.

solodeogloria · 12-11-2017 11:40PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There are plenty of other threads where you can freely spout your sanctimonious god-bothering. This thread was supposed to be for people (female and male) with actual experience of abortion to relate their experiences, whether good or bad. But you and your chums just couldn't resist getting the old judgmental crapola in.

Good evening!

I make no apologies for posting the truth about abortion.

The moderators have decided that this is a thread for pro-choice views only. I will respect that decision.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

marienbad · 13-11-2017 12:09AM

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good evening!

I make no apologies for posting the truth about abortion.

The moderators have decided that this is a thread for pro-choice views only. I will respect that decision.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

That is just your version of the truth . It is an open question . maybe not for you but for a lot of people , do you accept that ?

Or is just your way or the high way ?

We’ve had abortions!/We haven't had abortions!

Comments