Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Brexit discussion thread II

1…200201203205206…305

Comments

  • #6062
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    flatty wrote: »
    It is The Sun.
    I agree with the last line.
    I had hoped that the next generation would get more news from the net, and from wider sources, but it seems that their online profiles are susceptible to targeted "advertising". The whole thing is worrying. Party politics is obviously not really working at the minute, but what else is there?
    The only forlorn hope for the UK is that brexit,being the preeminent issue, overrides current party lines,and a centrist party forms from the existing ones. Can't see it though. It would need a leader, the likes of which there has t been in generations, and time, which they don't have.

    Sorry but it's not just the Sun. It's a general ignorance in the British media from broadsheets to tabloids. The fact is one of the best selling newspapers linked the Brexit border problem to the IRA.


  • #6063
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    I'm not even a big Celtic fan, but for the last few years I've gotten endless entertainment from looking at Rangers message boards as their fans delude themselves in trying to handle their new reality. (A LOT of parallels to brexit in a way. Desire to return to the past, every act being viewed as "punishment". Talk of an all conquering future after they inexplicably become world beaters overnight)


    It's amazing though how common it is among them to blame all of their woes on the catholic church and/or the IRA. Whether it be about referees decisions, UEFA rules, local councillors, the Scottish government, parades etc. It can all be traced back to priests and the IRA.


    I've always thought they are just the extreme fringe of British society, so it's disheartening to see mainstream newspapers adopt a similar stance by bringing up the IRA boogy man.





  • #6064
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ah it gets better. A headline in the Sun today states that the political wing of the IRA via Gerry Adams is responsible for the "new" border problem. It's funny seeing the brexiters in a rage all the time.

    www.thesun.co.uk/news/4889870/iras-political-wing-sinn-fein-to-blame-for-new-brexit-stand-off-over-northern-ireland-border-ministers-say/amp/
    That's actually impressive.

    How to explain to their readers that FG and FF aren't in government together and the main reason they are talking to each other to keep SF out.


  • #6065
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,516 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    And a reminder about turkeys voting for Christmas.
    Cornwell being a hardcore Brexit county with 55% voting leave has 2/3rds less staff available on their farms due to the Brexit vote and asks for an exception from the future immigration policy as crops are rotting in the fields already. That's a good turkey; keep on voting for Christmas like good turkeys...
    “If we put strict limits on Eastern European migrant labour or devise alternative immigration policies that limit so-called ‘low-skilled’ labour, the Cornish horticultural industry is finished," said David Simmons of Riviera Produce, one of Cornwall's biggest producers.

    And of course let's not forget another Brexit stronghold on the British coast with 70% voting leave wanting exceptions. Appear to be an ongoing trend that the hardcore brexit areas also want exception from the exact thing they asked for...


  • #6066
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Mr Dave Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.
    "Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership,if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account".
    "I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis..
    "Ah yes Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement"
    In Mr Barniers office Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club? "Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets".
    "Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet". "As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount".
    "That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"!
    "But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.
    "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill".
    "But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly stocked".. "You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year". "You therefore owe us £2600 for the year".
    "Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis.
    ]"No of course not Mr Davis". "You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier.
    "Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers". "Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year".
    "I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis.
    "No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"
    "Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof".
    "Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?"
    "Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week", your share of the bill is £2000".
    "I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".
    "Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension". "We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month". "He's not well you know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it". "This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier. "Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for
    food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!"
    "Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier.
    "Piss off!" says Mr Davis


  • Advertisement
  • #6067
    mickoneill31
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭mickoneill31


    Good god the posts in here are really going down hill.

    Where's the analogy for the UK citizens living in Europe, the WTO tariffs, the fact that the UK needs immigrants and the Irish border. Can you fit those into your golf club story and update it.

    The UK has the option of saying piss off to Europe. Nobody is stopping them. Why don't they just do that?

    Here's another basic explanation.

    "I'm going to cancel Netflix and negotiate with each film producer separately, to get the best deal for me and my family"

    It's banal too and easy to pick holes in. But it's funny.


  • #6068
    Sand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I think the key thing is the negotiations have not yet started. Phase 1 is simply discussing the difficulties caused by Brexit, and working as a team to resolve them. How should citizens of the UK and EU suddenly trapped by Brexit behind foreign borders be treated? How will the UK and the EU ensure the spirit and the terms of the GFA are respected? Will the UK honour the undertakings it made as part of the EU or will it dishonour them?

    This is not a negotiation where each side can walk away no worse off than before they sat down to talk. It is problem solving where if solutions are not found, one side will be much worse off than before. The UK ought to be looking to demonstrate good faith here, to prepare a positive environment for future negotiations between the EU and the UK as third country. Those negotiations may take the best part of a decade, but they wont even start if the UK dishonours it obligations and demonstrates itself to be a dishonest and reckless partner.


  • #6069
    View
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    recedite wrote: »
    Mr Dave Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.
    "Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership,if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account".
    "I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis..
    "Ah yes Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement"
    In Mr Barniers office Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club? "Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets".
    "Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet". "As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount".
    "That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"!
    "But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.
    "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill".
    "But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly stocked".. "You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year". "You therefore owe us £2600 for the year".
    "Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis.
    ]"No of course not Mr Davis". "You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier.
    "Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers". "Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year".
    "I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis.
    "No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"
    "Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof".
    "Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?"
    "Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week", your share of the bill is £2000".
    "I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".
    "Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension". "We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month". "He's not well you know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it". "This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier. "Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for
    food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!"
    "Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier.
    "Piss off!" says Mr Davis

    There is nothing unfair about the EU asking the UK to settle its accounts as it leaves the EU.

    The UK insisted that the Irish Free State as it gained independence would have to shoulder its “fair share” of then absolutely massive national debt (ie largely the imperial war debt from WWI) and the associated war pensions (see art 5 of the Anglo-Irish Treaty).

    Are you seriously suggesting that we were falsely billed and can now claim our money back (plus a hundred years worth of interest on it and associated monies for the damage caused to the newly independent Free State arising from badly needed money being diverted from it to pay for the (UK’s) national debt)?


  • #6070
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,516 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Sand wrote: »
    I think the key thing is the negotiations have not yet started. Phase 1 is simply discussing the difficulties caused by Brexit, and working as a team to resolve them. How should citizens of the UK and EU suddenly trapped by Brexit behind foreign borders be treated? How will the UK and the EU ensure the spirit and the terms of the GFA are respected? Will the UK honour the undertakings it made as part of the EU or will it dishonour them?

    This is not a negotiation where each side can walk away no worse off than before they sat down to talk. It is problem solving where if solutions are not found, one side will be much worse off than before. The UK ought to be looking to demonstrate good faith here, to prepare a positive environment for future negotiations between the EU and the UK as third country. Those negotiations may take the best part of a decade, but they wont even start if the UK dishonours it obligations and demonstrates itself to be a dishonest and reckless partner.
    The problem is you're approaching this based on facts which are recognised world wide with exception of UK. In the UK not only does UK have the stronger hand ("They need us more than we need them"; "German car manufacturers will put pressure on Merkel"; "They need London's market for funding"; Without us there will be a impossible big hole to fill in their budget" etc.) but add in to this the British wit and intelligence of being able to run circles around the EU negotiation team (We'll do a chicken race with the no deal brexit and they will come running to us with what ever we want because we got bigger cahones) and EU leaders in general due to their national courage (Stiff upper lip! Tally ho! Remember our British Empire and spirit!). Besides EU there's a whole empire (even if no longer under our control) that UK can take up trade deals again as their Queen is the Queen of the Commonwealth after all; those other countries will fall in line with the wishes of the Queen and all other countries will simply throw open the doors for UK because, well, it's the UK! World's most famous nation for their innovation, science, food, culture etc.

    Now to you and me that's lunatic fantasy country but for a significant part of the British ruling party and elite that's their actual beliefs. That is what makes the whole thing looks so silly from the outside; we're having two very different world views colliding and both think they are right. In the end I got a feeling that if all countries and facts point in one direction but one country thinks it's all wrong I know which side I'd like to be on. In many ways it's also reflected in the debate; Remainers will bring up actual facts, laws and regulations to show the impact while Brexiteers will hand wave it away and talk about emotions (freedom, setting our own rules etc.) and very high level generic pictures without any details or facts behind them.


  • #6071
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    recedite wrote: »
    Mr Dave Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.
    "Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership,if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account".
    "I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis..
    "Ah yes Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement"
    In Mr Barniers office Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club? "Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets".
    "Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet". "As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount".
    "That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"!
    "But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.
    "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill".
    "But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly stocked".. "You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year". "You therefore owe us £2600 for the year".
    "Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis.
    ]"No of course not Mr Davis". "You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier.
    "Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers". "Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year".
    "I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis.
    "No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"
    "Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof".
    "Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?"
    "Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week", your share of the bill is £2000".
    "I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".
    "Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension". "We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month". "He's not well you know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it". "This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier. "Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for
    food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!"
    "Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier.
    "Piss off!" says Mr Davis

    Your analogy falls down because the UK is not simply a member of a club, it is also part owner. It's signature is on the mortgage as it were. It may be seeking to sell out, but that does not erase debts accrued and pension obligations to it's employees. Not only that but it is also looking at doing ongoing deals with it's former business partners, so they have a leverage.


  • Advertisement
  • #6072
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    This map showing the NUTS classification of EU regions makes interesting reading - certainly the red and yellow English and Welsh regions would appear to have been the very areas that voted Leave:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/7caqp3/classification_of_eu_regions_with_regards_to_the/


  • #6073
    solodeogloria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭solodeogloria


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    This map showing the NUTS classification of EU regions makes interesting reading - certainly the red and yellow English and Welsh regions would appear to have been the very areas that voted Leave:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/7caqp3/classification_of_eu_regions_with_regards_to_the/

    Good morning!

    Yes apart from Essex, a lot of Devon, Suffolk, Norfolk, much of Yorkshire, Herefordshire, Northumberland, Somerset, Warwickshire, Gloucestershire, Kent, some parts of Surrey, parts of East and West Sussex, a lot of Cambridgeshire, a lot of Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, a lot of Buckinghamshire, parts of Wiltshire and Berkshire all in blue and all who voted to leave and there's probably some I've missed. What exactly is the point being made here?

    In any case the referendum is over and the hard work of implementing the result is underway.

    Much thanks,
    solodeogloria


  • #6074
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    mickoneill31 wrote: »
    "I'm going to cancel Netflix and negotiate with each film producer separately, to get the best deal for me and my family"

    It's banal too and easy to pick holes in. But it's funny.
    Or how about "I'm going to cancel my expensive fixed Sky subscription because I can get a better all round deal by installing freesat, and then I can get netflix separately as an add on if I want to.
    But yeah, it was an jokey analogy. One with a point though.
    sink wrote: »
    Your analogy falls down because the UK is not simply a member of a club, it is also part owner.
    Most typical golf clubs are owned by the membership.


  • #6075
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,991 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    solodeogloria wrote: »
    Good morning!

    Yes apart from Essex, a lot of Devon, Suffolk, Norfolk, much of Yorkshire, Herefordshire, Northumberland, Somerset, Warwickshire, Gloucestershire, Kent, some parts of Surrey, parts of East and West Sussex, a lot of Cambridgeshire, a lot of Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, a lot of Buckinghamshire, parts of Wiltshire and Berkshire all in blue and all who voted to leave and there's probably some I've missed. What exactly is the point being made here?

    In any case the referendum is over and the hard work of implementin the result is underway.

    Much thanks,
    solodeogloria
    So toffs and the unemployed and working classes united to force a resounding 52% victory. The toffs can afford to sit the disaster out. The others are just stupid.


  • #6076
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Well, if it's story-time...


    A Rather More Truthful Painfully Simplified Version of Brexit That Still Is Daft As An Analogy.

    Mr. Davis was at the golf club returning his locker key with a couple of his teenage children when Mr. Barnier, the membership secretary, saw him. The kids gave Mr. Barnier the "mortified teenager" expression that they give when they know their parent is about to do something embarrassing.

    "Hello, Mr. Davis," said Mr. Barnier. "I saw the letter of resignation from the board this morning that your wife Theresa sent in. If you'd like to come to my office, we can settle the accounts and come to an agreement."

    "I have settled my bar bill" started Mr. Davis, trailing him in confusion.

    "Ah yes Mr Davis", said Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement"

    In Mr Barnier's office Mr Davis explained that he has settled his bar bill and so was wondering what else he could possibly owe the Golf Club.

    "Well, Mr. Davis" began Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry that you and your family are leaving, although we're going to have to sort out the details, since we had our five-year planning meeting last year and funds that we all committed have been put towards current and future projects."

    "Yes," agrees Mr. Davis. "I did agree to commit funds towards the clubhouse, but my family are leaving, so we don't know if we'll even benefit from it. We're removing the bit of land that we committed to the golfing green project and setting up our own, you see. Everyone wanted to leave as we don't like other people playing on our green when we're trying to."

    "I didn't vote we should leave," mumbled the elder of the teenagers, turning a rebellious shade of plum. His sister folded her arms. "I didn't want to either," she complained.

    "Quiet, leaving the golf club means leaving the golf club," said Davis firmly, turning on his two recalcricient sprogs. They glowered back. Mr. Barnier politely eyed the ceiling as he noted the dissension in the ranks.

    "Oh yeah, and it'll be all sunset and roses and everyone will come to our tiny golf club," continued the low mutter of rebellion from behind Davis as he turned back to the manager.

    "..So, you see, it would be rather unreasonable of us to pay towards a golf club that we'll be leaving next year," concluded Davis.

    "And what about the border where your new golf club meets ours?" asked Barnier. "Varadkar's land borders yours on the other side and putting borders up through it will make things difficult for him and the Europa Club in general. We can't allow our club to be damaged by you pulling out without making concessions. Regarding the money, why didn't you decide to leave before we calculated out the five year budget which your family, as part-owners of the club, agreed to?"

    "Well, that was when we thought we'd be playing here more," objected Davis. "But we decided that we want control over our bit of the green back fully. We don't agree with all these other people coming in that we can't control."

    Mr. Barnier gave him a strange look, but forebore to ask how Davis planned to make the Britain Golf Club great again without allowing customers to play. Davis looked back defiantly.

    "Now, we reckon we should only pay a small amount, but we're not quite sure what. We'll get back to you when we know. In the meantime, we expect to be allowed to play."

    "And you said that we'd be allowed to play after we left while we get our bit of green ready to use.." mumbled Teenager 1 maliciously. Davis frowned, and then shrugged.

    "...No," said Barnier. "That's nonsense. Especially while you're arguing that you shouldn't pay what you agreed you owed. However, if you agree to fulfill your debts and responsibilities, we can probably come to an arrangement. We're not discussing that until we've concluded the deal, however."

    "It was a gentleman's agreement and not legally binding so we don't really -owe- anything," crowed Davis.

    Barnier stared at him again, and this time wondered if he should forbear from asking if breaking it meant Davis was proclaiming himself not a gentleman. He forbore once again, but accidentally catching Teenager 1's eye, he was faintly amused to see that even the offspring seemed to think this was bull****.

    "However, we should talk about how we and you will work together after we leave," added Davis.

    Oh, do we, thought Barnier. He smiled thinly. "Then there are certain things we must come to agreement on," he said quietly. "That the Britain family, as shareholders in the Europa Golf Club will pay their five-year dues, as agreed in the 2016 meeting, since the money has already been pledged. That the border between your land and Mr. Varadkar's is organised to cause as little disruption as possible and that people can use the right-of-way from his land, around yours to ours, since the whole movement of EU citizens thing really doesn't work in this bloody stupid analogy."

    "Quite," said Mr. Davis, hiding several Writs of Expulsion that had already been used on several Europa members that morning behind his back.

    "Well?"

    "Quite," said Mr. Davis again, staring at him briefly and then flicking his eyes to the lamp, the desk and a small bobble-head of Tiger Woods. It bobbled contently, unaware of the disgrace that had since engulfed the golfer it represented. "We'll come to those agreements as soon as you come up with some flexible methods to do so that won't harm us. It would be disgraceful to hold Varadkar's land hostage to this agreement."

    "Then don't," agreed Mr. Barnier, staring back at him. Teenager 2 at this point was scratching her forehead, probably to hide her expression.

    There was a long pause. It continued for six months.

    Epilogue
    Six months later, Mr. Barnier was getting annoyed and Mr. Davis was getting battered from all fronts. For some insane reason, the other shareholders in Europa were totally unreasonably not coming up with solutions for him and disregarding that his family had chosen to LEAVE. Even more annoyingly, a lot of them didn't seem to care, which was very irritating after Theresa, himself, and various cousins had spent six months proclaiming that the Europa Golf Club needed them a lot more than the Britain Golf Club would ever need the Europa. It was very unfair.

    His wife had quietly tossed out a few of the less interesting Europa customers, and others were avoiding his land, heading over to the Frankfurt green or Varadkar's Ireland green, which was indeed looking rather greener than the Britain's green. Unfortunately, this was starting to cause issues for the cafes and tourist stores that for some unknown reason were scattered around the place because again, this is a fcuking stupid analogy. The teenagers were sulking industriously and occasionally trying to organise revolutions around Uncle Corbyn (who unfortunately also wanted to leave the Europa golf club), so it wasn't going well. It didn't help that Uncle Boris, chosen as representative of the All-New Independent Britain Golf Club had already insulted various big potential customers, and the deal with the Libyan Golf Club looked like it was down the khazi after his comment that it would be a lovely golf course once the corpses were cleared away. Between that, his gaffe at the Burma Golf Club and his major foot-in-mouth incident with the Iran Club, his position as favourite Uncle was getting pretty tarnished. Turned out that putting the family idiot in charge of deals wasn't a great idea. The manager of the Trump-AmericaFirst golf club was leering over his Wall and making comments that it would be delighted to make a deal with the new Britain Club, if the club lowered its standards. Davis and Theresa had decided that that was a problem for the future and hoped to God that it would be the problem of Uncle Corbyn eventually. The fans of the fairway that bordered Varadkar's land were getting more and more nervous and given the ancient disputes between that part of land and the Ireland fairway, it was in everyone's interests to clear that situation up. However, it was a small fairway, and it might have to be sacrificed for the greater glory of the Britain fairway. No-one was quite sure yet.

    And still the stare-off continued, with neither side willing to back down. Barnier was not going to let the Britain family walk out of their obligations, gentleman's agreement or not, nor was he going to stand for members of the Europa being expelled from that part of the green. He was also determined that the Europa would get its golf clubs back. He was also pissed on behalf of Mr. Varadkar, who was making noise about the damage to the value of his land if the Britain family refused to come to an arrangement. The teenagers were still sulking and making rapid plans to move out, having more or less given up on Uncle Corbyn. Davis was sweating, but loudly proclaiming that a deal was just around the corner. Really.

    Another unsatisfactory meeting, although in five minutes he'd have to go face the press and tell them how a deal was really very nearly there, while avoiding any details. Again. But for now, he sat in the Europa bar, swirling his cocktail and looking into its depths sadly, as if the Answer might be at the bottom of it.

    "It will be the bestest golf club in the world, and all for us," he murmured to himself. Another Tiger Woods bobblehead that for some reason seem to be all over the place, bobbled merrily. At least something agreed with him.


  • #6077
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    The EU state the obvious and tell the Tories that they are putting the interests their party above those of NI. Breaking neutrality and siding with the DUP for one.The prime minister was accused of a lack of “care” for the peace process by one senior EU official.

    I'm glad someone else sees it.


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/12/eu-says-tories-putting-party-before-interests-northern-ireland


  • #6078
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    mickoneill31 wrote: »
    It's banal too and easy to pick holes in. But it's funny.
    Funny, because for a top business person it is essential that you are in the right golf club because that's where the real deals are done. Simple as.


    Sure you can try and join another club like The Donald's but everyone knows that's just a facade and they are only interested in your money.

    There's a few pitch and putt courses out there but you've now got to apply to be a member, even though you had associate membership through your old club. And because you've ruffled feathers in the past, not get the discount you were hoping for might be the least of your problems.


    And besides just like the stonecutters in any new club you'd be the new member. Only allowed in if everyone agrees and as last in you have least rights, unless you have deep pockets or are dead sound, but everyone knows you don't because of what happened at your previous club.






    It's like cancelling SKY and then being surprised when Virgin won't give you a great introductory offer because somehow they got the impression that you might not be a good customer.


  • #6079
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Or it's like leaving the biggest trading market in the world with no trading partners and expecting a good deal without looking after your obligations. I think that highlights the stupidity and danger of this exercise better than a golf game.


  • #6080
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Its like having your GUI card cancelled after you quit your golf club but then rolling up to other courses on Open days expecting to still get the GUI rate.

    In fact its like rolling up to clubs looking to pay less than either the Open rate or the standard green fee because they should really really value your custom.


  • #6081
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Or it's like leaving the biggest trading market in the world with no trading partners and expecting a good deal without looking after your obligations. I think that highlights the stupidity and danger of this exercise better than a golf game.

    It is a pretty awful analogy. But that's the issue with trying to represent Brexit as a simple anything (leaving aside that the original golf club story was plain dishonest, even as a dodgy analogy). Leave campaign did it. Davis did it. May did it. Johnson...well, was anyone expecting him to come up with anything intelligent? It's not a bloody golf club, it is a member state pulling out of a major trade alliance that the leaders don't particularly appear to understand.

    It's not simple and the stakes are a hell of a lot higher than who gets to play golf (let them eat cake right there!). I wish I could think that Davis et al understood that too.


  • Advertisement
  • #6082
    GalwayMark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭GalwayMark


    They never fully left the empire behind them with the commonwealth of nations hence their disinterest even though Europe is their biggest trading and global security partner. Britain/Greater England needs to realise this isn't the 19th century anymore and if it wants to retain some measure of international power their must be a reassessment of its sordid history at home and abroad plus walking away means Germany is going to be a massive beneficiary in terms of European Power.


  • #6083
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The EU state the obvious and tell the Tories that they are putting the interests their party above those of NI. Breaking neutrality and siding with the DUP for one.The prime minister was accused of a lack of “care” for the peace process by one senior EU official.

    I'm glad someone else sees it.


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/12/eu-says-tories-putting-party-before-interests-northern-ireland


    I still don't see how the UK expects to square this circle. The response from the spokesperson doesn't really add anything but further confusion.
    “The government is committed to avoiding a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland,” she added. “As we said in our paper on the subject, the specific solutions to the unique circumstances in Northern Ireland must respect the integrity of the EU single market and customs union, and they must also respect the integrity of the United Kingdom.

    “We respect the indivisibility of the four freedoms [the four pillars of EU integration, ranging from free movement of goods to free movement of workers] and that is why, as part of leaving the EU, we are leaving the single market and the customs union.”

    They want to avoid a hard border but they want to leave the single market and customs union. They want to respect the integrity of the EU single market but want the integrity of the UK respected as well. I guess they need to have it hammered into them that they cannot achieve all of this at the same time. We are a long way into this whole debacle and its still pie in the sky statements from the UK.


  • #6084
    Panrich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,986 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Enzokk wrote: »
    I still don't see how the UK expects to square this circle. The response from the spokesperson doesn't really add anything but further confusion.



    They want to avoid a hard border but they want to leave the single market and customs union. They want to respect the integrity of the EU single market but want the integrity of the UK respected as well. I guess they need to have it hammered into them that they cannot achieve all of this at the same time. We are a long way into this whole debacle and its still pie in the sky statements from the UK.

    It's amazing that Brexit with support from the DUP will probably mean a hard border, followed at some point in the not too distant future, a united Ireland.

    The only way that this narrative would change is if the UK remain in the single market and customs union, or if the North descends into violence due to the imposition of a hard border.

    I think neither of these outcomes are looking likely at present. There seems no prospect on the horizon of a 180 in the UK. In fact, if May is scuppered the more rabid Brexiters seem likely to take control.
    If a hard border is implemented, no republican will need to resort to violence in protest. Hard cold economic reality will do their job for them.


  • #6085
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,878 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Panrich wrote: »
    It's amazing that Brexit with support from the DUP will probably mean a hard border, followed at some point in the not too distant future, a united Ireland.

    The only way that this narrative would change is if the UK remain in the single market and customs union, or if the North descends into violence due to the imposition of a hard border.

    I think neither of these outcomes are looking likely at present. There seems no prospect on the horizon of a 180 in the UK. In fact, if May is scuppered the more rabid Brexiters seem likely to take control.
    If a hard border is implemented, no republican will need to resort to violence in protest. Hard cold economic reality will do their job for them.

    Brexit is likely to be followed by a hard border, then within five years, it will be followed by UK accession to the EEA.


  • #6086
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,516 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Brexit is likely to be followed by a hard border, then within five years, it will be followed by UK accession to the EEA.
    Far to fast; at least a decade more likely closer to two. They need not only to get properly hammered from Brexit, do a small recovery, realize the trade deals they are being offered take years if not decades and are **** but still signed because they got nothing else. Then said TDs need to kick in to move more manufacturing and job out of UK and cause more hardship before the local population would be ready for a pro EEA/EU party line to win.


  • #6087
    flutered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭flutered


    Zerbini Blewitt wrote: »
    So the plan of one Brexiter faction for a ‘successful’ Brexit is to force the lower (approx) 75% of the UK labour force to compete with current Indian & Chinese working conditions, pay & living conditions (2012 Book review here).

    The majority in Britain live their lives an order of magnitude poorer & more precarious (in effect 21st century Dickensian) - that is, for the ones that have jobs - and the rich get richer. What's not to like :rolleyes:

    For this faction of Walter Mitty Tories* & murky business figures – direct labour competition with China/India is their brainwave of how to deal with Britains productivity problem. This is what Brexit is all about for them.

    They are not stupid (but they are malevolent, out of touch fantastists). Its not clear at this point if they realise Britain must get at a minimum a “no-deal" deal as mentioned earlier. Of course not having a hard border in Ireland is not even an afterthought in their musings.
    *Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Elizabeth Truss
    this is an example of how the lower orders should be treated in a post brexit uk, https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sir-james-dyson-apos-vision-130123678.html


  • #6088
    flutered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭flutered


    Sand wrote: »
    I think the key thing is the negotiations have not yet started. Phase 1 is simply discussing the difficulties caused by Brexit, and working as a team to resolve them. How should citizens of the UK and EU suddenly trapped by Brexit behind foreign borders be treated? How will the UK and the EU ensure the spirit and the terms of the GFA are respected? Will the UK honour the undertakings it made as part of the EU or will it dishonour them?

    This is not a negotiation where each side can walk away no worse off than before they sat down to talk. It is problem solving where if solutions are not found, one side will be much worse off than before. The UK ought to be looking to demonstrate good faith here, to prepare a positive environment for future negotiations between the EU and the UK as third country. Those negotiations may take the best part of a decade, but they wont even start if the UK dishonours it obligations and demonstrates itself to be a dishonest and reckless partner.
    the uk are not really interested, they are looking for a fall guy/guys, something that always readily advailable even if they are pie in the sky


  • #6089
    flutered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭flutered


    Nody wrote: »
    The problem is you're approaching this based on facts which are recognised world wide with exception of UK. In the UK not only does UK have the stronger hand ("They need us more than we need them"; "German car manufacturers will put pressure on Merkel"; "They need London's market for funding"; Without us there will be a impossible big hole to fill in their budget" etc.) but add in to this the British wit and intelligence of being able to run circles around the EU negotiation team (We'll do a chicken race with the no deal brexit and they will come running to us with what ever we want because we got bigger cahones) and EU leaders in general due to their national courage (Stiff upper lip! Tally ho! Remember our British Empire and spirit!). Besides EU there's a whole empire (even if no longer under our control) that UK can take up trade deals again as their Queen is the Queen of the Commonwealth after all; those other countries will fall in line with the wishes of the Queen and all other countries will simply throw open the doors for UK because, well, it's the UK! World's most famous nation for their innovation, science, food, culture etc.

    Now to you and me that's lunatic fantasy country but for a significant part of the British ruling party and elite that's their actual beliefs. That is what makes the whole thing looks so silly from the outside; we're having two very different world views colliding and both think they are right. In the end I got a feeling that if all countries and facts point in one direction but one country thinks it's all wrong I know which side I'd like to be on. In many ways it's also reflected in the debate; Remainers will bring up actual facts, laws and regulations to show the impact while Brexiteers will hand wave it away and talk about emotions (freedom, setting our own rules etc.) and very high level generic pictures without any details or facts behind them.
    using the queen as an example of getting things done is slowly drifting away, her son and heir owns cornwall, where crops are rotting and rodents increasing in a massive way, another year of this and the rodent problem will be out of control, with all its issues


  • #6090
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,375 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    We have heard no more about the missing £490 billion pounds, lost down the back of the sofa.

    If they are not bothered to track down the missing half a trillion pounds, why are they bothered about whether the EU want €30 billion or €60 billion? Surely the benefit of moving onto trade talks would be worth it - sure they could print the money.


  • Advertisement
  • #6091
    solodeogloria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭solodeogloria


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    We have heard no more about the missing £490 billion pounds, lost down the back of the sofa.

    If they are not bothered to track down the missing half a trillion pounds, why are they bothered about whether the EU want €30 billion or €60 billion? Surely the benefit of moving onto trade talks would be worth it - sure they could print the money.

    Good evening!

    I commented on it here linking to an article explaining it in the context of £21 trillion in UK assets and liabilities. It's actually a pretty small adjustment.

    Moreover these assets and liabilities aren't public funds so I don't know why you are treating them as such.

    Of course the UK should be bothered about what it dues with taxpayers money.

    Much thanks,
    solodeogloria


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement