We’ve had abortions!/We haven't had abortions!

Fighting Tao wrote: »

This will end well.

What a trite and obvious post.

In the same league as: 'first!'.

I'm male, and I'll never know the difficult physical decision to have a termination. But I am pro-choice. And being pro-choice doesn't mean you are comfortable with discussing terminating a pregnancy, it just means you are pro allowing someone the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.
The difficulty one can experience is knowing 'is it the right decision for me/ us'? And that is something nobody can predict-I've made choices in my life that I still don't know were the right ones.
I will commend an earlier post where the young man went over with his then girlfriend in order to support her. That was a difficult thing for her to experience, I have no doubt about that, but having him there, even if they are no longer together, probably means a hell of a lot more now than it did then-that's a major step. I'd shake his hand, for sure.

As for the secrecy surrounding terminations (I hate using the word abortion-because I know family who've had miscarriages, who were heartbroken when it happened. And they also fall under the term 'abortion'.) I think Ireland has a lot of issues with 'supposed' shame. I know myself, I've struggled with mental illness-an in the last number of years, I've been open with friends and family talking about it. But there's still this 'shame'. Like 'why do you have it'-'sure we all get depressed, we get over it' etc.

I know too many people who took their own lives-because of the 'shame'. Like it was something they could have prevented. It wasn't. So if a woman (preferably a couple) choose to make that difficult decision, and either/or choose not to talk about it. That's up to them.

Tigger wrote: »

sorry no at some point there is a mans child involved and that gives him rights
i do believe we are too far the other way and i invoted for the right to travel backnin the day but thats what i feel

No it doesn't. The man has, and should have no legal rights in this case. You cannot force a woman to have a child because you impregnated her. Just as you cannot force an abortion on a woman.

The man can discuss it with her. He can offer advice and support but in the end it's her that will have to go through the pregnancy.

And it's tough not having a say. I say this as a guy. I'd like to think there was something I could do. When a guy ends up in that situation they are essentially passengers on a journey they have no control over.

Signed up just to comment on this thread, it touches home.

Girlfriend and I were quite young, fell pregnant, disastrous set of circumstances at the time (in hindsight, not so much, but that's hindsight for you). Exams, start of careers, completely unstable financially etc.

Its still a haze looking back at it, time dragged on and on, unsure what to do, stress coming from everywhere else as well. Before we knew it the baby was quite late in pregnancy (I honestly cant remember how many weeks, it was something "in the middle")

Snap decision made, went to UK. Wasn't actually present in person in the room, but girlfriend told me everything, and let me tell you, its horrific. I clearly remember her saying that "bits of her (her, as in the baby) were cut up and sucked out. No need for the other details.

That was many years ago, and although we still somewhat know each other (relationship ended), we have never once talked about it since. I can say hand on heart that at least 3 or 4 days a week I think about it, regret it in many ways. If we had continued and allowed our girl to be born it would have completely changed our lives, I have no doubt about that.

Careers probably would have gone in absolutely different directions, would have been poorer in the immediate term, would have been very stressful at the immediate time etc. But being older now, I know that you get over problems, and I'm very sure we would have gotten over those problems too.

I'm not in a relationship at the moment, neither is she. But having read this thread it just makes me think for the millionth time that I could, in an alternate reality, hear a laugh in the hall outside now and the girl would come skipping in, she'd be there and be my daughter. It really is dreadful to have that hang on you. I have no doubt whatsoever that my ex feels the same, if not much worse. I daren't ask, because what can be said now?

That's my experience, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, either the stress of not knowing what to do, or the reality of having done it. I just cant imagine, nor have I ever heard, anyone ever regretting having a child as much as NOT having a child.

I'm dreading the referendum next year, because its bad enough having these things live with you as well as having the whole thing shoved in your face every second through media, people knocking on doors and all that.

Anyone who says that having an abortion doesn't bother them, it just comes across as a seriously suspect personality to me. Anyone who can do such a thing and just treat it like nothing is unhinged or something, in my opinion. But there are plenty of strange people out there.

Anyone who says this is solely a womans choice is out of their mind. I cant think of a more selfish position to take. Its as plain as this, it involves the man, the woman, and the child. If all are present, then its a joint decision and there should be equal regard for all 3. Anything else is out of this world.

Its very easy to see the women who hate men (or lets say have a serious "problem" with men) hijacking the debate and turning it into womens rights, or me, me, me. Equally so, its easy to see the men who operate on the other side of it, trying to dictate entirely what should happen from their perspective.

Its a pity these "social warriors" will take control of the debate and be the loudest mouths. But what else was going to happen?!

The whole abortion issue is a bandaid for a far more serious problem in society. Instead of preventing all of these preventable pregnancies from happening, we've just accepted the problem and moved onto the short-sighted "solution" of abortion.

That's my two cents anyway. I wouldn't do it again if I could go back.

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I used to work with a woman who very much regrets having her children. She loves her children and would do anything for them. They're all adults now, and one even had a child of her own but the woman I worked with confided that if she were to do it all again, she would never have had children.

To be honest, I would think my father strongly regrets having me and my brother. Given the horrid, sick feeling I get at the thought of having my own children, I know I would regret having children. I respect that you regret that your girlfriend at the time had an abortion, but it wouldn't be fair to apply that sentiment to others.

I've never heard anyone say anything similar. And I would imagine that everyone has bouts of fancy, "what if I did this, what if I did that"......but its probably just fanciful.

I'd imagine that if those women had their children in front of them and they were given the choice to get rid of them and have a different (unknown) life, I cant imagine a mother REALLY going for the trade. Its a nice soundbite and something to muse over, but I think reality would be different.

Another thing I'd say is a major factor (even for myself) is having other children. I don't have other children, and my tune might be different if I did. Its a really debase form of humanity, but sure maybe one is as good as another if you have them

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Hindsight is awesome.

It is, in its own way. It imparts wisdom, enabling you to see the reality of your mistakes, to see things beyond the immediate present and immediate self.