We’ve had abortions!/We haven't had abortions!

Carry · 10-11-2017 11:20PM #1

The above was the title page of the then renowned German magazine Stern in the year 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We%27ve_had_abortions!).

374 prominent and ordinary women confessed publicly that they had an abortion at a time when it was still illegal in Germany. I remember it well because I thought it was very brave of these women to admit something which was not only illegal but also strictly and morally condemned. They not only had to fear prosecution (which didn’t happen) but also being shunned by all the people who quickly climbed up their moral high horse.

It caused a shìtstorm, of course, but it also caused a necessary societal discussion. The feminists, which were at that time really fighting for basic rights (I was a bit later one of them), pushed the agenda and three years later the German parliament (women are voters too, you know) decided to legalise abortion on demand up to 12 weeks of pregnancy.

It wasn’t that easy though. The conservatives fought over the years tooth and nail against it. The current situation is more complicated but under certain circumstances (and under 12 weeks) abortion is still legal as far as I know (I live too long in Ireland to know everything what’s going on in Germany).

Long story short: I’m wondering if any woman in Ireland or more precisely here on boards would confess that she had an abortion. I’m not nosy, I still think that the more women say it out loud the more their predicament will be heard. And every abortion is a predicament that all those moralistic foetus-savers will never understand.

Boards is a small platform to start, but at least it’s a start.
So boardsistas, anyone?

Yes, I’ve had an abortion and it was a horrible and humiliating experience.

I’m not interested in the usual arguments that are discussed to death in other threads about abortion. I’m interested in experiences of women who went through this ordeal.

Fighting Tao · 10-11-2017 11:21PM

This will end well.

10-11-2017 11:30PM

Carry wrote: »

Long story short: I’m wondering if any woman in Ireland or more precisely here on boards would confess that she had an abortion. I’m not nosy, I still think that the more women say it out loud the more their predicament will be heard. And every abortion is a predicament that all those moralistic foetus-savers will never understand.

Yes, I’ve had an abortion and it was a horrible and humiliating experience.

I really like the idea behind this thread, I do think removing the "Secrecy" will remove a lot of the stigma, I often wonder if the secrecy causes more harm to people who already find themselves facing an incredibly difficult decision. (I do respect that it is a medical procedure and therefore not everyone would want to shout it from the rooftops, irrespective of the stigma that practically forbids disclosing it, just incase someone says or thinks something awful).

Thankfully I have never been in that position, but if I had to make that decision I would consider all of my options. Thanks for sharing your story, I'm just sorry you couldn't have been treated at home.

notsoyoungwan · 10-11-2017 11:36PM

This is something I often think about - I'm a 38 year old woman with a wide circle of friends. I don't know of anyone who has had an abortion. Statistically, surely at least one of my friends, or maybe even sisters, must have had one, but I'm not aware of it. My friends would say the same. It saddens me that someone close to me would feel they had to keep it to themselves, for fear of shame, judgement, abuse etc.

lazybones32 · 10-11-2017 11:38PM

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

fryup · 10-11-2017 11:39PM

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

It saddens me that someone close to me would feel they had to keep it to themselves, for fear of shame, judgement, abuse etc.

welcome to ireland,

Fighting Tao · 10-11-2017 11:40PM

And it's started.

Carry · 10-11-2017 11:54PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

And it's started.

The contractions?

Ulysses Gaze · 10-11-2017 11:58PM

Wibbs · 11-11-2017 12:05AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So maybe we can keep the ideolgies and conspiracy theories out of it and just have a rational debate?

Hahahahhahahaha. Oh hang J, you're serious? God forbid rationality comes into things. Sadly.

Oops! · 11-11-2017 12:08AM

I know 3 women that have went to the UK for an abortion... 2 of them were in their early 20's and in short term relationships at the time... 10 years on they both think what might have been but do not regret the decision now as they would of not ended up where they are now, career wise and happy... The 3rd woman had one in her late 30's with a new partner after a 15 year relationship ended with her first partner whom which she had a number of children with.... That was a number of years ago and she suffers bouts of depression ever since over it.... It's a tough call... In my opinion it's down to the individuals involved and there suitation... I'm male by the way. I could hardly believe it when i found out you could have an abortion on a medical card for free in the UK... Very popular with the inner city chav youths...

splinter65 · 11-11-2017 12:17AM

fryup wrote: »

welcome to ireland,

There’s loads of things people keep to themselves and it’s nothing to do with being ashamed or afraid.
A wide range of people use porn to relax and achieve some semblance of sexual release, and are not ashamed or afraid, they just don’t think it’s a conversation topic that could be maintained
Millions of people have had plastic surgery, a spot of Botox, a tummy tuck.
And they want to keep it to themselves.
An adult has an abortion. You made the decision yourself, you went through it. It’s over now. There may or may not be emotional consequences. You live with them if there are.
It’s one of the most emotive topics in the entire world.
People who have had problems conceiving or have had children die may be extremely upset if they have overheard your discussing having had a termination, it’s a private thing.

gctest50 · 11-11-2017 12:20AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

You poor thing

A bag of shopping - that's all you were worth

splinter65 · 11-11-2017 12:25AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

I heard a lady on the radio who was spared being aborted because when her maternal grandmother took her pregnant mother to three different abortion clinics in the States back in the 70s, she was so revolted by the lack of hygiene ( the granny was a nurse herself) they gave up and went home.
She was too afraid her daughter would die of a sepsis.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 11-11-2017 12:43AM

Oops! wrote: »

Very popular with the inner city chav youths...

The fact probably don't suit your agenda, but here you go;

Abortion rates for those aged under 25 have shown some decline over the last ten years. The decline is particularly marked in the under-16 and 16-17 age groups where the rates have both halved since 2006. In particular the abortion rate in the 16-17 age group declined from a peak of 23.4 per 1,000 women in 2007, to 10.8 per 1,000 women in 2016.

The abortion rate for 18-19 year olds also declined from 33.3 per 1,000 women in 2006 to 23.0 per 1,000 women in 2016, and for those aged 20-24 the rate also declined from 32.5 per 1,000 women in 2006 to 27.0 per 1,000 women in 2016.

For women over the age of 25, abortion rates have seen marginal increases in recent years. Rates for those aged 25-29 are only slightly lower in 2016 (23.6 per 1,000 women) than 2006 (24.3 per 1,000 women), but rates have increased over the last four years, having fallen to 21.8 per 1,000 women in 2012.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/652083/Abortion_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

Vela · 11-11-2017 01:03AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

If you were never born, you wouldn't be around to care about whether you were around or not.

Canis Lupus · 11-11-2017 01:08AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

Your mom will do anything for a new pair of shoes is all I took away from that story.

lazybones32 · 11-11-2017 01:19AM

Vela wrote: »

If you were never born, you wouldn't be around to care about whether you were around or not.

But i was born. Had i died anytime since, i wouldn't be around to care about whether i was around or not...
I prefer life though.

splinter65 · 11-11-2017 01:55AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

But i was born. Had i died anytime since, i wouldn't be around to care about whether i was around or not...
I prefer life though.

Your dad wanted you so bad he humored a confused alcoholic woman into giving birth to you. The greatest day of your mothers life the day you were born, even though she doesn’t know that.
Your a miracle lazybones, a survivor. Enjoy every day.

Vela · 11-11-2017 02:00AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

But i was born. Had i died anytime since, i wouldn't be around to care about whether i was around or not...
I prefer life though.

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.

A foetus isn't a baby.
A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.
A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

11-11-2017 02:02AM

I thought I had an abortion once but in reality it was just a big poo

splinter65 · 11-11-2017 02:05AM

Vela wrote: »

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.
A foetus isn't a baby.

A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.

A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

Why don’t you just come straight out and tell lazybones that he/she needs to just get over the fact that his/her mother had to be bribed not to get rid of him, and that he/she owes the mother for the huge sacrifice she made?
Far too much faffing around ....

Tenigate · 11-11-2017 02:13AM

Carry wrote: »

I’m not interested in the usual arguments that are discussed to death in other threads about abortion. I’m interested in experiences of women who went through this ordeal.

Here ya go, sista..
https://youtu.be/wNWWVnKNK6o

I'll never forget that day as I watched in horror as a doctor dismembered and removed the baby's bloody limbs – and I had to account for all the pieces.

PandaPoo · 11-11-2017 02:21AM

I found out I was pregnant at 17 and my friend told me she had 2 abortions and I should have one. She hasn't a maternal bone in her body and it was the right decision for her. I didn't have an abortion, and that was the right decision for me.

I know a woman who has had 3 abortions, and 2 other women who have had 1. Only 1 of them has ever expressed a slight regret now that she is struggling to conceive and is in her mid 30s.

uch · 11-11-2017 02:21AM

From a fella's perspective, I fully understand and support your point of view, I was in the situation when I was about 18, lovely girl, good relationship, but the accident happened, I had no preference either way, but she was a career girl and it would have ruined it for her, she chose termination and I stood by her 100%, it was an awful affair in Brighton altogether, we moved on and split up as many kids do, but I regularly think of what might have been, then I think of the problems I've had with illegal substances and gargle and think what kind of life would the child have had, in hindsight, it was the right decision, but it doesn't make it any easier, Never a day goes by when I don't think about it, but at the same time I don't regret a thing

Carry wrote: »

The above was the title page of the then renowned German magazine Stern in the year 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We%27ve_had_abortions!).

374 prominent and ordinary women confessed publicly that they had an abortion at a time when it was still illegal in Germany. I remember it well because I thought it was very brave of these women to admit something which was not only illegal but also strictly and morally condemned. They not only had to fear prosecution (which didn’t happen) but also being shunned by all the people who quickly climbed up their moral high horse.

It caused a shìtstorm, of course, but it also caused a necessary societal discussion. The feminists, which were at that time really fighting for basic rights (I was a bit later one of them), pushed the agenda and three years later the German parliament (women are voters too, you know) decided to legalise abortion on demand up to 12 weeks of pregnancy.

It wasn’t that easy though. The conservatives fought over the years tooth and nail against it. The current situation is more complicated but under certain circumstances (and under 12 weeks) abortion is still legal as far as I know (I live too long in Ireland to know everything what’s going on in Germany).

Long story short: I’m wondering if any woman in Ireland or more precisely here on boards would confess that she had an abortion. I’m not nosy, I still think that the more women say it out loud the more their predicament will be heard. And every abortion is a predicament that all those moralistic foetus-savers will never understand.

Boards is a small platform to start, but at least it’s a start.
So boardsistas, anyone?

Yes, I’ve had an abortion and it was a horrible and humiliating experience.

I’m not interested in the usual arguments that are discussed to death in other threads about abortion. I’m interested in experiences of women who went through this ordeal.

Ave Sodalis · 11-11-2017 02:24AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

Can I add another point of view on this, especially considering the final line?

I don't know if my mother ever considered aborting me. However, I would have (if I had any sort of consciousness or awareness afterward) completely understood if she did. Yes, I like the fact I am alive obviously. I don't wish to be dead, or to not have been born. That doesn't change the fact that I made my mother's life very difficult by being born. Being a single teenage mother in the early 90s was not easy. For example, she had to leave school, she often went hungry at the end of the week to feed me because she didn't have enough money, she had to fend off bible wielding high horses that came to take me from her etc. Now I mean it all worked out in the end, but why on earth would I wish that sort of life on anyone I claim to care about? She was barely more than a child herself and she had to sacrifice so much.

lazybones32 · 11-11-2017 10:28AM

Vela wrote: »

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.
A foetus isn't a baby.

A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.

A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

When a human female is impregnated, which species is she reproducing?

ANXIOUS · 11-11-2017 10:45AM

Vela wrote: »

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.
A foetus isn't a baby.

A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.

A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

It all comes down to personal opinion and I think for people to try and generalize it that way is wrong.

Not necessarily only in the context of abortion but also in others contexts in particular miscarriages. I am reading a harrowing thread elsewhere about family's trying to get miscarriages at 25 weeks registered. Which I fully understand and support.

But we can't have one branch of the government recognizing this and another not.

Carry · 11-11-2017 10:49AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

I'm sorry to hear that, lazybones. It must hurt to hear that you are only alive because of a shopping trip . Of course you are glad to be alive, but you see, in this thread it's not about you or the babies, it's about the women who struggle to make a difficult decision.

Does anyone ever think about the women?

Did you ask your mother why she didn't want a child? Did you ask her about her circumstances, and her feelings? Did you ask yourself why she needs to get drunk? Did you ask yourself what your being alive did to her life?

If you care about life so much, please try to care about your mother's life, too, and try to put yourself in her shoes.

Nitrogan · 11-11-2017 10:52AM

How much is an abortion ?

(horrific question for a lot of people)

The economics aren't the issue now but I'd just like to know how much someone spends on going to a clinic in the UK etc. must be near 600-700?

The_Valeyard · 11-11-2017 10:59AM

We need to abort this thread and have a megathread..

We’ve had abortions!/We haven't had abortions!

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